Kemper "no bounce" help

So, i've noticed, and been trying to unravel this... the kemper, as good as it is, lacks (in my words) bounce. Difficult to explain, but... the notes seem to wither and die, very quickly. I've taken gates completely out of the equation by turning them off in the chain. i've read it's due to lack of interaction between the guitar/pups and speaker, especially as it pertains to volume. i've also read that adjustments in the sagging, pick, clarity, tube bias, etc settings of the amp (within the Kemper) can/will/may help.

i profiled my own amp...and granted, it sounds like my amp, but i can still put my amp at a very low room volume and get the "note bounce" and sustain that i'm missing with the K, at a similar volume.

i've read at least two sides to this... and all the arguments on all the sides seem at a minimum valid, to me anyways. could this be as simple as lack of "ha'rumph", as i'm playing through monitors vs speaker cab? one of the other sides to this issue, less technical, is very simply because it's not an amp and cab...it's, at the end of the day, a digital unit doing it's best to replicate; whilst close, there's no cigar.

anyone else experience this? full cords, and heavy rhythm stuff seems less affected. i'm speaking more to single notes and solo'y, leads stuff...

thanks guys for any feedback...

are you talking about playing literally in front of it versus playing through the profile? because I'm sure that definitely has something to do with it. playing in front of a speaker will definitely have some impact on the response of the guitar and the amp. the Kemper is more like being in an entirely separate room from the amp. unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean.

+1^

Do you use any in room monitors? My kemper stage sounds rather dry if im listening to it through headphones and its an entirely different game through a good monitor or poweramp/cab.

thrashinbatman":3ay1i1jm said:

are you talking about playing literally in front of it versus playing through the profile? because I'm sure that definitely has something to do with it. playing in front of a speaker will definitely have some impact on the response of the guitar and the amp. the Kemper is more like being in an entirely separate room from the amp. unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean.

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i think you understand me,,,and maybe i understand you to clarify, and i may have/have not made this apparent, i'm not talking about a tonal difference in an amp running through a 212 cab at low volume and the K (with a profile) running through 2i2-> monitors...only how the guitar responds to/reacts with the K.

K-Roll":1f74cuyw said:

Do you use any in room monitors? My kemper stage sounds rather dry if im listening to it through headphones and its an entirely different game through a good monitor or poweramp/cab.

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yes, when i'm on the K, using a profile whether mine or someone elses, i play through a 2i2 usually and 2-yamaha's H5's.

i'm looking at picking up a 12" frfr at/around Christmas, and that may help...

Is the input gate turned up?

Above 2 or 3 can effect dynamics and sustain.

Not sure I understand. I have a powered head I play through real speaker cabs. I also turn off the power amp and power it through my Diezel VH4s which sounds amazing.

What is your clean sense / distortion sense at? "the notes seem to wither and die, very quickly" sounds like a similar issue I was having with the two "sense" settings being dialed back too far... Maybe something to try?

Could be.

dead-pan":2tczwe48 said:

Is the input gate turned up?

Above 2 or 3 can effect dynamics and sustain.

Click to expand...

Tim makes a good point; the global gate, fantastic (and intelligent) as it is, will eat into your sustain at higher levels. This is because at that point you're asking it to remove the noise component, which it has automatically figured out and focussed on, from the guitar's signal, having already done all it can with the BG-noise level. Invariably there'll be some sort of signal-strength loss in this scenario.

Also, have you tried cranking the Amp Compression parameter? I love it. Makes leads creamier-to-play for me, and may well do the trick for you.

I'm not talking about a stomp compressor; the parameter's in the amp module alongside Definition, Clarity and whatnot.

There is a great YouTube video Steve Fryette did some years ago showing how the tone and feel change dramatically with/without a buffer infront of modeling units. NOW of course he is trying to sell a product but it is pretty easy to hear the difference...may help with the bounce...

MrDowntown":2z278rl3 said:

thrashinbatman":2z278rl3 said:

are you talking about playing literally in front of it versus playing through the profile? because I'm sure that definitely has something to do with it. playing in front of a speaker will definitely have some impact on the response of the guitar and the amp. the Kemper is more like being in an entirely separate room from the amp. unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean.

Click to expand...

i think you understand me,,,and maybe i understand you to clarify, and i may have/have not made this apparent, i'm not talking about a tonal difference in an amp running through a 212 cab at low volume and the K (with a profile) running through 2i2-> monitors...only how the guitar responds to/reacts with the K.

Click to expand...

You're changing a huge variable (212 cab vs studio monitors) but insisting the change is occurring at the guitar<> amp area
Even out the variables so that you really know what your are hearing at that location

But yes, a tube amp will likely feel better in that specific scenario.

Thanks for all the advice guys... at some point maybe I'll have some time to actually sit down and play a little and test some of these things out.

If this really is a speaker cab or size of speaker thing and the interaction of the guitar, Kemper and speakers...I'm guessing a nice 12" frfr will help also?

MrDowntown":22bincwt said:

Thanks for all the advice guys... at some point maybe I'll have some time to actually sit down and play a little and test some of these things out.

If this really is a speaker cab or size of speaker thing and the interaction of the guitar, Kemper and speakers...I'm guessing a nice 12" frfr will help also?

Click to expand...

Maybe so maybe not
A lot of people dig a Kemper > traditional cab. I see a lot of people that jumped on the frfr train jumped off and back to guitar cab.
I think the frfr will sound great though- really give you a picture of what the house pa would deliver to a crowd. For a live show, this really only affects you- the house pa gets a di line and that whole 'feel' thing and speaker choice doesn't matter- as long as it is good enough to allow you to be inspired. I love it with a 2x12 but recognize a tube head feels better. But Kemper feels good enough & is better in like every other way for me by a long shot. I can setup in 5 minutes and get tap, spillover, & morphing a variety of awesome tones without worrying about powerstrip buzz and which cord shorted out on a traditional pedalboard. But yes, tube head is amazing, just cumbersome.

Good luck with your journey!.

crankyrayhanky":2jk6ckv4 said:

MrDowntown":2jk6ckv4 said:

Thanks for all the advice guys... at some point maybe I'll have some time to actually sit down and play a little and test some of these things out.

If this really is a speaker cab or size of speaker thing and the interaction of the guitar, Kemper and speakers...I'm guessing a nice 12" frfr will help also?

Click to expand...

Maybe so maybe not
A lot of people dig a Kemper > traditional cab. I see a lot of people that jumped on the frfr train jumped off and back to guitar cab.
I think the frfr will sound great though- really give you a picture of what the house pa would deliver to a crowd. For a live show, this really only affects you- the house pa gets a di line and that whole 'feel' thing and speaker choice doesn't matter- as long as it is good enough to allow you to be inspired. I love it with a 2x12 but recognize a tube head feels better. But Kemper feels good enough & is better in like every other way for me by a long shot. I can setup in 5 minutes and get tap, spillover, & morphing a variety of awesome tones without worrying about powerstrip buzz and which cord shorted out on a traditional pedalboard. But yes, tube head is amazing, just cumbersome.

Good luck with your journey!.

Click to expand...

Not to derail - but how do you dial it in for spillover?

Wayniac3":2tfgkg3q said:

crankyrayhanky":2tfgkg3q said:

MrDowntown":2tfgkg3q said:

Thanks for all the advice guys... at some point maybe I'll have some time to actually sit down and play a little and test some of these things out.

If this really is a speaker cab or size of speaker thing and the interaction of the guitar, Kemper and speakers...I'm guessing a nice 12" frfr will help also?

Click to expand...

Maybe so maybe not
A lot of people dig a Kemper > traditional cab. I see a lot of people that jumped on the frfr train jumped off and back to guitar cab.
I think the frfr will sound great though- really give you a picture of what the house pa would deliver to a crowd. For a live show, this really only affects you- the house pa gets a di line and that whole 'feel' thing and speaker choice doesn't matter- as long as it is good enough to allow you to be inspired. I love it with a 2x12 but recognize a tube head feels better. But Kemper feels good enough & is better in like every other way for me by a long shot. I can setup in 5 minutes and get tap, spillover, & morphing a variety of awesome tones without worrying about powerstrip buzz and which cord shorted out on a traditional pedalboard. But yes, tube head is amazing, just cumbersome.

Good luck with your journey!.

Click to expand...

Not to derail - but how do you dial it in for spillover?

Click to expand...

spillover:
go into the Rig button, PAGE all the way to the left to the first page
there's 4 options at the top- it's the 3rd one "Rig Spillover Off" (leave it unchecked)
I think it is set to spillover by default

On page 5 there is a momentary button- for example, you can assign that to get some infinite reverb/delays going and then still jam on top of the cascade of sound. I use that to transition in between songs, especially when the bass player is switching up basses or tuning
& we need to kill time

All of this is exactly why I have no interest in a digital rig. All the nuances you don't think about when you first get the unit and then the mad scientist frenzy trying to find a menu option or rig expansion to get back what you had just by having an amp go though a cab in the first place. I get why it's worth it for some but it would suck all the joy out of the little time I have to play as it is.

skoora":bdf9iv7l said:

All of this is exactly why I have no interest in a digital rig. All the nuances you don't think about when you first get the unit and then the mad scientist frenzy trying to find a menu option or rig expansion to get back what you had just by having an amp go though a cab in the first place. I get why it's worth it for some but it would suck all the joy out of the little time I have to play as it is.

Click to expand...

I hear ya...and don't dispute any of that...and there are nights where I only have a few minutes to play...and I find myself tweaking

I wrestled with the Axe/Kemper thing for a long time. I'm not unhappy..actually I'm pleased, but I do think I just need the right speaker in front of me to make it feel a little better.

Thus far..being able to play a digital comp of a Fortin, Cameron, Mesa, etc... has been loads of fun.

Theoretically, due to the lower number of parameters (ignoring FX), and in reality if user comments are anything to go by, the Kemper minimises the need to tweak to the greatest extent of any serious modeller IMHO.

If I had a dollar for every new user over at the forum who claims he used to get lost down editing rabbit holes with his Axe before switching, I'd be able to buy that LP I've always wanted. Well, not quite, but you get the point.

skoora":1eyknmky said:

All of this is exactly why I have no interest in a digital rig. All the nuances you don't think about when you first get the unit and then the mad scientist frenzy trying to find a menu option or rig expansion to get back what you had just by having an amp go though a cab in the first place. I get why it's worth it for some but it would suck all the joy out of the little time I have to play as it is.

Click to expand...

I love my Axe III, but I couldn't agree with ya more! 4cm is where it's at with this thing, all controlled with one xlr cable. You can put amp models into the return of your amp, works amazing but I still have my core tone 100% Friedman when I want. Can't really help with the Kemper issue, I've had both versions and they didn't last long.