What's The Deal With Mesa V30's?

I heard from Celestion that's its the same V30s as in every other cab out there. Mesa just rates them higher because the feel they can take more than the 60w Celestion rates them at.
 
Mesa V30's does not sound like regular V30's, i have both and swap them to ear the difference. The regular as higher mids that seems to cut a little more with a band.
 
Metal1977":10dcdq1x said:
Mesa V30's does not sound like regular V30's, i have both and swap them to ear the difference. The regular as higher mids that seems to cut a little more with a band.
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Might depend on how old the cab is. All V30s are 100% made in China for a number of years now.
 
guitarnerd":yrkofhqv said:
Metal1977":yrkofhqv said:
Mesa V30's does not sound like regular V30's, i have both and swap them to ear the difference. The regular as higher mids that seems to cut a little more with a band.
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Might depend on how old the cab is. All V30s are 100% made in China for a number of years now.
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Maybe
 
Gnarkill3k6":d914h32m said:
What type cabs are those Peavey's, Stephen?
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4x12 Peavey cabs from the 80's that came with Celestion K85. You can also find 2x12 from the same era that are good.

Not really sure what you are asking ???
 
guitarnerd":rw0etjld said:
I heard from Celestion that's its the same V30s as in every other cab out there. Mesa just rates them higher because the feel they can take more than the 60w Celestion rates them at.
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You sure you talked with someone who actually works for Celestion? Every time I've talked to them about it they've confirmed their are differences and that what I'm hearing is accurate but won't discuss the mechanical details due to it being proprietary information.

Robotechnology":rw0etjld said:
Some of the 70 Watt versions of speakers have vented pole pieces (hence the extra 10 watts of power handling).
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Marshall released the Marshall Vintage speakers back in 1987. They rated them at 70w.

The Celestion and Mesa OEM V30s didn't come out until 1991.

When I asked Celestion about the power handling difference they said they rated theirs more conservatively because they didn't know what kind of cab people would mount it in.

When I asked Mesa a number of years back about why their V30s were rated for 70w instead of 60w they said they rated theirs at 70w because that's what the Marshall was rated at. When I asked them last year about why they were changing their's to 60w they said it was to bring it inline with what Celestion was advertising.

Mesa's vented pole speakers are MC-90s.
 
I've had a cab from post 2003 and pre 2003 and there is a definite difference in the sound tone and feel.
 
BrentSSL":ldo2ox2a said:
I've had a cab from post 2003 and pre 2003 and there is a definite difference in the sound tone and feel.
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How far back did you have to go in order to bump a nine year old thread?!??!! :rock:
 
Oblivion DC":e72ewgmw said:
BrentSSL":e72ewgmw said:
I've had a cab from post 2003 and pre 2003 and there is a definite difference in the sound tone and feel.
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How far back did you have to go in order to bump a nine year old thread?!??!! :rock:
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Well, there are 23 posts from 2012, so it could be seen as only 6 years old. And this is the third time being bumped, the other being time being in 2011. All garnering continued discussion. So the topic must be one of value and relevance.
 
Mesa v30 posts from 2009 have a more pleasing tone but are less accurate
The Mesa v30 posts after 2011 seem to be more harsh yet mix in with the board content better
 
I find this speaker is very dependent on the cab. I like it in closed back cabs much more. Not a big surprise since I prefer closed back cabs usually.
 
D-Rock":2asd7iy9 said:
Oblivion DC":2asd7iy9 said:
BrentSSL":2asd7iy9 said:
I've had a cab from post 2003 and pre 2003 and there is a definite difference in the sound tone and feel.
Click to expand...
How far back did you have to go in order to bump a nine year old thread?!??!! :rock:
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Well, there are 23 posts from 2012, so it could be seen as only 6 years old. And this is the third time being bumped, the other being time being in 2011. All garnering continued discussion. So the topic must be one of value and relevance.
Click to expand...

Any information of value was summed up nicely by Steve Fryette and has been noted more than once on this forum.
The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.

The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.

There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.

When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.

It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.

So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.

And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*

T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm

*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.

Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs.
Last edited by sfryette; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:04 PM. Reason: Adding more mind numbing detail...
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Oblivion DC":2ggj8bdd said:
D-Rock":2ggj8bdd said:
Oblivion DC":2ggj8bdd said:
BrentSSL":2ggj8bdd said:
I've had a cab from post 2003 and pre 2003 and there is a definite difference in the sound tone and feel.
Click to expand...
How far back did you have to go in order to bump a nine year old thread?!??!! :rock:
Click to expand...
Well, there are 23 posts from 2012, so it's could be seen as only 6 years old. And this is the third time being bumped, the other being time being in 2011. All garnering continued discussion. So the topic must be one of value and relevance.
Click to expand...

Any information of value was summed up nicely by Steve Fryette and has been noted more than once on this forum.
The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.

The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.

There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.

When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.

It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.

So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.

And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*

T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm

*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.

Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs.
Last edited by sfryette; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:04 PM. Reason: Adding more mind numbing detail...
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Ha ha! Are you serious? That is Steve's response to ME, on the Fryette forum which I then brought here, so you're welcome.
 
thegame":3jhss1h5 said:
NewWorldMan":3jhss1h5 said:
This is much more crucial than a frame holding a speaker. I'd be much more worried about how my speaker was made and the effect it has on my tone than whether or not the frame holding my speaker was going to corrode after 200 years instead of 210 (random numbers). I knew I shouldn't have left my cab in the back of my space cruiser! Maybe we should analyze the ink on the stamps next. I hear that Marshall's Celestions use a low grade ink made in Indonesia when stamping serial numbers on the frame as opposed to Mesa that uses ink from a US factory in Nashville. I don't want no stinking Indonesian ink on my frame... :LOL: :LOL:

My point is who cares if it sounds good and gives you the tone you want? We should worry more about playing guitar and making music than whether or not our speaker frame can last 210 years instead of 200. If it sounds good, that's all that matters. You're not going to have any reliability issues with any frame that Celestion ships in your lifetime, your kid lifetime, you grandkids, lifetime, etc.
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I see your point. But I wonder if a frame made with less rigid steel might flex, or impart some sympathetic vibrations when you've really got it loud and cranking. Its probably not an issue, but my Tone chasing OCD mind cannot help but ponder this :doh:
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True, and my works the same way, but if the frame is slightly softer, it may produce a warmer tone. Just like the difference between an aluminum bridge and a pot metal bridge.
 
Oblivion DC":2fmrr0w4 said:
BrentSSL":2fmrr0w4 said:
I've had a cab from post 2003 and pre 2003 and there is a definite difference in the sound tone and feel.
Click to expand...
How far back did you have to go in order to bump a nine year old thread?!??!! :rock:
Click to expand...
I was doing research on the Vintage 30s and came across this thread and decided to comment on it after I realized it was a rigtalk post lol
 
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