What's the deal with Soldano loops? (Mod content)

duesentrieb":3lj23lde said:
Piero the Guitarero":3lj23lde said:
From the german Tube-Town forum, I'll quote Olaf (Duesentrieb)
Must be a pretty old quote, Piero :D

Just 4 years Olaf :D

duesentrieb":3lj23lde said:
Btw: the amp sounds even more awesome with the loop taken out of the circuitry IMO.

I remember that Joachim made his loop switchable and he posted that the amp sounded
"more open", also it received very nice brilliant highs, he argued that the shielded wire is
completely out of the way, and is the opposite oppinion to:

Even Bigger D":3lj23lde said:
You won't hear any change in tone when the loop is "removed". The loop design is such that the loop send and return stages are actually tone-affecting parts of the amp and are always supposed to be in the circuit even when the loop is not in use. It's wired so that having nothing in the loop is exactly the same as bridging a cable across the loop. So you wouldn't want to remove either stage, and if you did so the amp wouldn't sound like a SLO any more (less gain, rougher, less sustain etc.). Really, all that would be left to remove is the mechanical jacks themselves, and taking them out would have no benefit - they switch themselves out of the circuit when there's no cable in the loop jacks anyways.

If you don't use the loop the best bet is to forget it's there. Problem solved :rock:
 
Shark Diver":s2yc0udh said:
Yes, but it isn't an issue since I do no drastic eq'ing and the X99 is rotary. So I set the head eq for the head and adjust the x99 for itself. Actually it makes the fixed, shared eq on the head not any issue for me.

I guess that makes sense. I do note you have no fx in the loop though. I think many of the people complaining about the loop are running reverb, delay, modulation etc. there and don't like what the return stage does to them. Certainly if you're willing to haul around a re-amped rig the capabilities of the loop become more or less a non-issue.
 
Marykelly":iz667guz said:
The loop in a SLO is placed after the second stage. For clean effects this is totally fine. However, when you switch to the gain channel there is a TON of gain created in the third stage so the loop doesn't give you that huge fully wet sound. Your effects just get buried in all the distortion from the third stage. Some DIY builders move the loop. I just dont use effects with the one I build. Just enjoy the killer dry tone :)


THis is what I have been noticing.

My effects processor in the loop sounds prettty good as far as not altering the tone, but under gain, the reverb, delay effect etc, gets buried as you are playing under gain, not that unsimilar to when you run a time based pedal in front of the amp, just not nearly as bad sounding, but still not really useable.

Has anyone gotten a useable delay/reverb etc. sound running in the loop using higher gain?

If so, what are you using?
 
Mesa\Kramer":6x9mzrkx said:
Marykelly":6x9mzrkx said:
The loop in a SLO is placed after the second stage. For clean effects this is totally fine. However, when you switch to the gain channel there is a TON of gain created in the third stage so the loop doesn't give you that huge fully wet sound. Your effects just get buried in all the distortion from the third stage. Some DIY builders move the loop. I just dont use effects with the one I build. Just enjoy the killer dry tone :)


THis is what I have been noticing.

My effects processor in the loop sounds prettty good as far as not altering the tone, but under gain, the reverb, delay effect etc, gets buried as you are playing under gain, not that unsimilar to when you run a time based pedal in front of the amp, just not nearly as bad sounding, but still not really useable.

Has anyone gotten a useable delay/reverb etc. sound running in the loop using higher gain?

If so, what are you using?


Sure, a 2290 splits the signal. So part of the signal going back is unprocessed.
 
Shark Diver":2uiafv2e said:
Even Bigger D":2uiafv2e said:
Having used both a SLO and a X88/SM100R (which puts the effects insert point after all gain and EQs) I personally don't think the oddball loop location has anything to do with getting the SLO sound. I would almost go so far as to say it's a design mistake, and if the amp were re-designed today it would have a conventional loop and sound the same without effects and better with them.

Obviously others will disagree, but I see the SLO as the first of its breed - great proof of what that sort of preamp clipping can sound like, but a mess from a features perspective.


Well I've spoken to Mike about this at length and he doesn't see it as a mistake and has no plan on changing it. I have a X88 and X99 plus the SM100r as well and that combo doesn't really sound like the head (I have 4). To each his own, but the loop is fine if you use it the way it was designed to be used.
yeah hindsight is a bitch..obviously it dosent work the way 99% of people want it too bottom line.. :cry:
 
To answer an earlier question the soldano and jet city loops are all the same with the exception of the hot rod 25 and jca22 which have a post master fx loop that has lower levels and is pedal friendly. The jca20hv also has a ss loop that is pedal friendly. It is an easy mod to make the line level loops a lower level for pedals and only involves piggy-backing two components.
 
Mesa\Kramer":n8r6oqd5 said:
Marykelly":n8r6oqd5 said:
The loop in a SLO is placed after the second stage. For clean effects this is totally fine. However, when you switch to the gain channel there is a TON of gain created in the third stage so the loop doesn't give you that huge fully wet sound. Your effects just get buried in all the distortion from the third stage. Some DIY builders move the loop. I just dont use effects with the one I build. Just enjoy the killer dry tone :)


THis is what I have been noticing.

My effects processor in the loop sounds prettty good as far as not altering the tone, but under gain, the reverb, delay effect etc, gets buried as you are playing under gain, not that unsimilar to when you run a time based pedal in front of the amp, just not nearly as bad sounding, but still not really useable.

Has anyone gotten a useable delay/reverb etc. sound running in the loop using higher gain?

If so, what are you using?

I used a Chandler SDE (stereo digital echo) in the loop. Sounded AWESOME. I still don't know why I sold that set up.
 
cardinal":1fr3mv2c said:
Mesa\Kramer":1fr3mv2c said:
Marykelly":1fr3mv2c said:
The loop in a SLO is placed after the second stage. For clean effects this is totally fine. However, when you switch to the gain channel there is a TON of gain created in the third stage so the loop doesn't give you that huge fully wet sound. Your effects just get buried in all the distortion from the third stage. Some DIY builders move the loop. I just dont use effects with the one I build. Just enjoy the killer dry tone :)


THis is what I have been noticing.

My effects processor in the loop sounds prettty good as far as not altering the tone, but under gain, the reverb, delay effect etc, gets buried as you are playing under gain, not that unsimilar to when you run a time based pedal in front of the amp, just not nearly as bad sounding, but still not really useable.

Has anyone gotten a useable delay/reverb etc. sound running in the loop using higher gain?

If so, what are you using?

I used a Chandler SDE (stereo digital echo) in the loop. Sounded AWESOME. I still don't know why I sold that set up.
Yeah wish I could have grabbed that :doh:
 
What about the hard bypass mod? gives you the choice of having it in or out.

Im looking for one with all the bells and whistles :D
 
If I were to buy an SLO it would be with depth, scoop and loop bypass mods.

The loop itself is placed in a bad spot because of the volume differences when switching between clean and od. Signal levels sent to the processor will be different is the volume level is different between the channels.
There is a mod to take the loop from +4db to more friendly level that pedals will take without clipping the input.

If you have a look at the schematic for the SLO you can see that having the loop in the circuit will effect sound just looking at the schematic itself. I have built a SLO type clone with the bypass and with the loop "in" the amp sounds more compressed and not as open sounding and a little darker in the top end. Some would say that the loop adds to the SLO sound. Personally I think with out the loop in the circuit it makes a great sounding amp even better sounding.

Someone that says the loop on the SLO doesn't effect the tone of the amp, hasn't tried this amp with and with out the loop.
 
jasonP":3ell1b7z said:
If I were to buy an SLO it would be with depth, scoop and loop bypass mods.

The loop itself is placed in a bad spot because of the volume differences when switching between clean and od. Signal levels sent to the processor will be different is the volume level is different between the channels.
There is a mod to take the loop from +4db to more friendly level that pedals will take without clipping the input.

If you have a look at the schematic for the SLO you can see that having the loop in the circuit will effect sound just looking at the schematic itself. I have built a SLO type clone with the bypass and with the loop "in" the amp sounds more compressed and not as open sounding and a little darker in the top end. Some would say that the loop adds to the SLO sound. Personally I think with out the loop in the circuit it makes a great sounding amp even better sounding.

Someone that says the loop on the SLO doesn't effect the tone of the amp, hasn't tried this amp with and with out the loop.
I am looking for those mods. I can always do the Direct out w/d/w option. At this point I just need a Stereo power amp.

Read there is a SRV type mod for the clean channel :confused: Might just buy one and send it to Mike for the works :scared:
 
I dont even care so much about the loop being Line level, just i will never be able to get acceptable Delay/Reverb on the Lead channel due to where the loop is located before the master.
I've been contemplating having a second loop added to remedy this.

Any thoughts to this?



(I did also buy a Badcat Unleash for this issue, but it just changes the feel and sound of the amp too much)
 
Mesa\Kramer":16ag8rc8 said:
I dont even care so much about the loop being Line level, just i will never be able to get acceptable Delay/Reverb on the Lead channel due to where the loop is located before the master.


Isn't that where you would want it - that way if you are turning up, or down, with the Master you are simply raising, or lowering, the entire dry and wet signal? Also, before the Master keeps your fx input level.
 
Hello There,

I dont have the SLO but I do have the HOT ROD 50 (Not the Plus) The regular Hot Rod 50 wich is the same schematic only with different transformers as Mike himself told me. And moving the loop require the mods. And I did them, so here is whats need to be done, and also went further and made some other improvements. I dont understand electronics and Ill try my best to explain.

1 - The loop is placed right after the low input channel, the clean channel sort of speak. So what happens, even with strymon pedals (that I use, and can handle up to +8db of current) is that you dont get volume low, but the delay DOES get drowned by the the gain stages coming after, its just like plugin a delay right before a dirty amp, it works a little better but not the way the delay should sound like.

So the first mod done was, see where was the loop connected and we removed it. No change in tone at all, its just a trail closed cicuit. So remove the loop, close the circut and done, no FX loop and the preamp section stays the same, no tone change at all.



The arrow shows where the loop its connected, we removed it and closed the trail. Loop gone.

Ok so now we went ahead an put the loop right after the master volume, see the trail where the loop was, is now closed by the yellow wire, and the black wires is coming behind from the chassi and under the board to be connected to post preamp section



Ok now, the problem is, the loop is amplified in the first section, so when it goes after the preamp it needs to get its signal level back or your master volume will drop. So a new Tube was installed in order to do that, not involving the preamp, just for raising the loop level. Also now theres a KNOB on the back besides the send and return jacks that can control FX level, so this mini preamp was built just for that, that coopper plate will hold a Tube and its using one side of the tube to do that. The other side of the tube is beeing used for another level knob that will control the LOW INPUT of the amps volume. Since the amp has LOW and HIGH input and share the same EQ a relay was installed so I can use a footswitch to change "channels" without unppluging the cable, so I can dial a Killer dirty channel and when clean is needed i just switch to the low input, as the volume drop is huge I can just go back in the amp and raise the LOW INPUT channel level up so it matches the master volume of the HIGH input. Its like having 2 master volumes and 2 channels that shares one EQ and thats all!

Again no changes in the preamp section at all, we did all this playing as it was done, different guitars, different player etc and no tone change at all! So it can be done if you are willing to drill the chassi and you have a decent tech. I live in Brazil and this guy builds amps for 30 years plus, dumble clones, JCMs etc and he did it in 1 day, so its simple.

Plate that the new Tube will be installed, one side of the tube will control the volume of the low input, the black arrow show the pot installed for that



Relays installed for LOW/HIGH switching with footswitch.



So I have a Soldano, with "channel" switching, an proper FX loop right before the power section and control of the level both of the FX and the Low input so I can use dirty and "clean" at the same volume without messing around with the amp preamp or tone at all.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, I dont understand nothing about electronics but I can ask the tech and reply here.

There is still some soldering to be done and wire organizing. After all is done, with the knobs installed, footswtich ready etc Ill post pics back

Sorry for the grammar mistakes Im from Brazil and my english is a little rusty!

Cheers
 
NettoCPS":uwxu93y4 said:
I dont have the SLO but I do have the HOT ROD 50 (Not the Plus) The regular Hot Rod 50 wich is the same schematic only with different transformers as Mike himself told me. And moving the loop require the mods. And I did them, so here is whats need to be done, and also went further and made some other improvements. I dont understand electronics and Ill try my best to explain.

I know ... reviving a zombie thread...

Hi NettoCPS,

I have a friend with the same amp and he wanted to add a loop as you have done. Do you know what the circuit you have installed is based on? Or perhaps even a diagram or perhaps more detailed picture of the tag boards and added tube socket.

Hope you can help,
Mike
 
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