Line Out - DI Box - FOH ?

This question is kinda coming out from my previous thread: "Two Line Out." Basically, the Line Out is a 1/4" which would go to the PA (or FOH). However, I remember reading in the Fractal boards that it's best to use a DI box because A) if the feed has phantom power it could fry the Axe FX unit, and B) makes it easier on the soundguy. Remember, soundguys aren't used to having rigs running direct without micing amps; so they can just disconnect the mic cable and plug that cable to the DI box.

So my question is this: should I get a DI box, plug the Line Out (1/4") from the Torpedo Live to the DI box, and plug the mic cable (that's used for the cab mic) to the out of the DI box? I know that when I use an acoustic guitar onstage (for one of our ballads), I plug into the house's DI box, and always wondered why not just use my 1/4" and plug to the snake and into the Line In of the PA system?

Anyway, thoughts on this? Am I just introducing another unit that I can do without, or is bringing my own DI box will make the soundguy happy (and my life easier).

Thanks!

PJ

Hi PJ, the answer is yes and no. The DI is the surest bet, avoids a phantom power issue and is a familiar scenario for a soundman. The compromise is that once you have a nice line level balanced signal (the live's output), it's kinda inefficient to unbalance it, run it through an impedance transformer that designed more for a bass or an acoustic guitar and then send it at microphone level to the PA.

Certain higher end DI's will have separate jacks and/or selectors so you can preserve as much as possible but really the right tool for the task is the item I suggested (ie balanced line-line splitter with groundlift option).

If you really want a great ROI, try a Littlelabs Redeye 3D http://www.littlelabs.com/redeye.html which can be an excellent DI or reverse DI for re amplification ie you can use it live or in the studio in multiple ways, you'll be happy, your soundman will be happy and you can also use it for more than one task in the studio too.



Andy

sysexguy":a98t369w said:

Hi PJ, the answer is yes and no. The DI is the surest bet, avoids a phantom power issue and is a familiar scenario for a soundman. The compromise is that once you have a nice line level balanced signal (the live's output), it's kinda inefficient to unbalance it, run it through an impedance transformer that designed more for a bass or an acoustic guitar and then send it at microphone level to the PA.

Certain higher end DI's will have separate jacks and/or selectors so you can preserve as much as possible but really the right tool for the task is the item I suggested (ie balanced line-line splitter with groundlift option).

If you really want a great ROI, try a Littlelabs Redeye 3D http://www.littlelabs.com/redeye.html which can be an excellent DI or reverse DI for re amplification ie you can use it live or in the studio in multiple ways, you'll be happy, your soundman will be happy and you can also use it for more than one task in the studio too.

Andy

Click to expand...

I'm checking out the manual now... thanks!!!

PJ

I know that when I use an acoustic guitar onstage (for one of our ballads), I plug into the house's DI box, and always wondered why not just use my 1/4" and plug to the snake and into the Line In of the PA system?

Click to expand...

The main difference in the Torpedo Live/C.A.B. case is that the signal you have is balanced AND line level (2 different things). Balanced means less sensitive to noise and Line mean a few volts. The signal is powerfull enough to drive long length cables.

Most of the time the DI is used to take an unbalanced instrument level to a balanced instrument level.

A DI is of no use in the case of the Torpedo Live : simply put a Jack - XLR cable and you're good to go. The only thing is that the volume will be much higher that what the preamp input of a mixer expect.

guillaume_pille":3m2v6qhb said:

I know that when I use an acoustic guitar onstage (for one of our ballads), I plug into the house's DI box, and always wondered why not just use my 1/4" and plug to the snake and into the Line In of the PA system?

Click to expand...

The main difference in the Torpedo Live/C.A.B. case is that the signal you have is balanced AND line level (2 different things). Balanced means less sensitive to noise and Line mean a few volts. The signal is powerfull enough to drive long length cables.

Most of the time the DI is used to take an unbalanced instrument level to a balanced instrument level.

A DI is of no use in the case of the Torpedo Live : simply put a Jack - XLR cable and you're good to go. The only thing is that the volume will be much higher that what the preamp input of a mixer expect.

Click to expand...

The DI is out then, thanks!

Would this type of cable work? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BPBQXM20

I would need a mono 1/4", not stereo, right? The XLR end of it would be XLR male? This is the cable that will be connected the soundguy's cable that he normally uses to mic the cab. He would simply disconnect the mic, and plug that end of the cable to the cable I'm providing him.

This would be the ideal (and cheapest) option for me! This is awesome, thanks!

PJ

PS: As for personal monitors, I'm beginning to lean more on the side of IEM, which would solve my problem of having to split the signal since I can use the headphone jack to the IEM transmitter

This is exactly the type of cable you need, stereo/TRS jack to male XLR. As it is not a stereo signal that travels in the cable, we talk about tip-ring-sleeve configuration, aka TRS, but the jack is the same as stereo.

About using the headphones and Line out, please keep in mind that both volumes are linked, in other words you will have to set up the right volume for the IEM for example, then the soundguy will adjust what is coming to his preamp.

guillaume_pille":11tjuns1 said:

This is exactly the type of cable you need, stereo/TRS jack to male XLR. As it is not a stereo signal that travels in the cable, we talk about tip-ring-sleeve configuration, aka TRS, but the jack is the same as stereo.

About using the headphones and Line out, please keep in mind that both volumes are linked, in other words you will have to set up the right volume for the IEM for example, then the soundguy will adjust what is coming to his preamp.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much!

As I continue to look at options online (and learning alot about line out, XLR out, balanced, unbalanced, etc), I ran into this unit: http://posseaudio.com/

Since I'm seriously considering going with an IEM option (instead of wedges), I can run the Torpedo Live's LINE OUT to this unit, and run the XLR out to the FOH, and the PHONES OUT (of the POSSE unit) would go out to my in-ears.

If you think this can work, then my search ends now

PJ

I don't know this Posse thing, seems cool.

I want to add a little something: the line out of the Live (or VB-101 or C.A.B.) is not designed to handle a +48V power supply (actually, I don't think many processosr with line out would like to have a +48V...).

Anyway, you have to find a way to avoid any risk.

If there is a patch on stage you have to tell the sound guy to patch the unit to a Line XLR and not a microphone XLR, Any keyboard has the same issue.

By keeping a jack-jack TRS and not using a jack to XLR, there is no way he will mix line and mic tracks. Of course using a passive DI should be a solution but I find it a little too much.

guillaume_pille":xt9viwgd said:

I don't know this Posse thing, seems cool.

I want to add a little something: the line out of the Live (or VB-101 or C.A.B.) is not designed to handle a +48V power supply (actually, I don't think many processosr with line out would like to have a +48V...).

Anyway, you have to find a way to avoid any risk.

If there is a patch on stage you have to tell the sound guy to patch the unit to a Line XLR and not a microphone XLR, Any keyboard has the same issue.

By keeping a jack-jack TRS and not using a jack to XLR, there is no way he will mix line and mic tracks. Of course using a passive DI should be a solution but I find it a little too much.

Click to expand...

That was my fear also. When I was going through the boards at Fractal, that was also their concern: phantom power. Their solution was using a DI box. I understand the whole "balance/unbalance" thing a DI would provide.

I never thought of how keyboards sets up onstage since we do not have a keyboardist, but I will look around some boards and see how they handle setup to FOH onstage. Might give me some more ideas.

I think the POSEE can solve the problem of running a XLR connection to the FOH, and avoiding the phantom power issue. I will shoot them a question and see what they say.

PJ