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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 10, 2020 2:32pm 
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Hack

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Hi everyone, I'm a newbie to the Torpedo Reload, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the connections in/out of the Reload related directly to using DAW-based (or audio interface based) software plug-ins. I've read the manual a few times, and I have scoured the Net regarding this topic, but no luck. Hence my writing this post. I would really appreciate your feedback and any help you could offer.

Here's the breakdown of what I'm hoping to achieve:

I just purchased new software plug-ins (from Neural DSP and also BIAS FX2 and BIAS Amp2 from Positive Grid, not to mention a couple of amp plug-ins specific to my UA Apollo audio interface). I was excited to dive right into these plug-ins, and see how each sounded through my Mesa Roadster with 4x12 Mesa cab... But because I like my neighbours, I decided to also purchase a Torpedo Reload so it can be attenuated while I'm actively playing live.

Now I am sincerely stumped at how things need to be connected (i.e. cable-wise from my guitar to my Apollo Twin audio interface, and then to/from the Torpedo Reload), in order to play any of these plug-ins through my "attentuated" Mesa cab.

I know that I could easily just exclude the Torpedo Reload from the entire signal chain, and just run an out from my Apollo to the RETURN of my Mesa's FX Loop, but that won't win me any points with the neighbours. So I need to incorporate the Torpedo Reload into this signal chain.

Can someone please, please help me? I apologize in advance if there's a previous thread on this Forum related to this topic.


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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 12:07pm 
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Hello Jaysun

technically wise, you can plug your guitar in the DI input of Torpedo Reload. send this signal through the Torpedo DI out to your Apollo. Then From the Apollo you go back to the line in of Torpedo Reload. use Amp out of Torpedo Reload to go to the amp input. Connect the amp speaker's output to the Speaker IN of the Reload and connect the cabinet to the Speaker out of the Reload to your cabinet.
you will need to activate direct monitoring in your DAW so that you can listen to your plugins in real time.

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 3:36pm 
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Thanks for the response, and I appreciate it. However, I don't think this will get the results I'm looking for. I'm a newbie to Torpedo Reload, so perhaps I'm wrong in what I'm about to say. The connections that you suggest are fine - in fact, what you suggest is what's already documented in the Reload manual.

And all of that is fine... However, I think to properly use a plugin (i.e. amp simulator in my case, such as NTS, Nameless, BIAS AMP2, etc.), I've always been told - and I've read it everywhere - that the signal path needs to steer away from your amp's instrument input (which is the connection that you suggest below). Instead, plugins like this should be connected from your audio interface (out) to the amp RETURN on your FX Loop. The rationale is obviously to not introduce any colouration from my amp's PREAMP. By using the Return, it effectively bypasses the PREAMP section and only uses the power-amp section.

I understand in theory how this should connect... I'm just gun-shy about doing this, considering that I just spent $5000 on a Mesa, and $1000 for this Reload. Was hoping that this is a common connection that everyone knows how to do... But I'm finding that's not the case at all, and not sure why.


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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 6:39am 
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jaysun55 what are you trying to do exactly?

Use the plugins like multi FX?

If that's the case, forget about the FX loop of the amp, just go guitar -> amp -> reload -> daw and put the FX on the track. It will sound better than trying to get back the signal from the DAW into the FX loop and save you a ton of hassle.

Dilan's suggestion is indeed the way to record a DI track, do reamping etc... but i feel that it's not really what you're trying to do?

Do you want to have the FX going through your cabinet and just use Reload as an attenuator?

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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 9:44am 
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Hi Guillaume,

First of all, thank you very much for taking a few moments to respond to my query.
What I'm trying to accomplish is pretty straightforward and simple, I think. I completely understand how to connect the Reload to my Mesa, in the conventional way (as per the documentation). But this is not exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. Let me try to explain a little more clearly.

Over the past while, I've purchased software "amp simulators" for lack of a better term. There are hundreds available on the market, as we all know. I have tons of software plug-ins that I've puchased over the years (Native Instruments' Guitar Rig, Amplitube, Waves Guitar Rack, Positive Grid's BIAS Amp2, Neural DSP's Nameless, NTS and other plug-ins) and now even my new audio interface (Apollo Twin) has a few new plugins that I've recently purchased (i.e. the Engl amp sims, Diezel VH4 amp plugin, etc).

What I'm trying to accomplish is to use my physical Mesa guitar amp as a secondary means of hearing these software-based "guitar amp" plugins. So instead of spending my time listening to software plug-ins through my studio monitors or through headphones. I want to listen to these specific plug-ins through my Mesa amp (specifically, the Mesa 4x12 cab that I have). Please note, I am NOT talking about time-based or modulation guitar effects. I'm talking specifically about software plug-ins that emulate or simulate real-world equivalent amps.

My thought was that I could somehow route the signal path from my DAW track (with one of these plug-ins as an Insert), out through my interface, to the real Mesa amp+cabinet that sits beside me. However, I have read enough about connections like this, that the common understanding is route this signal NOT through the standard amp instrument input, but through the amp's FX Loop Return instead. The rationale is all over the Internet - to avoid the oversaturation and colouration of a signal path that connects to the amp instrument input (i.e. to avoid the PREAMP section of the Mesa amp), you need to bypass the PREAMP section of the amp. The only way I know how to do this is to run the signal from the interface (1/4" cable from interface) out to the Return in of my Mesa head. This essentially avoids the PREAMP part of the signal, and uses only the POWERAMP section of the amp signal path.

I just don't understand how to cable the Reload up to accomplish this.

Does my explanation make sense?


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 31, 2020 3:15am 
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Alright, I'm back on track.

That's not really a very traditional setup ha ha, and I have never tried to do something similar, but let's give it a chance.

So you need to:

get the DI signal from the guitar going into your modelling software
in the modelling software, activate ONLY the preamp part and effects
Send the line out of your audio interface into your amp FX return
connect the speaker out of your amp into the Reload then your cabinet, adjust the loudness with Reload speaker volume

Routing should be this:

Guitar -> reload DI in
Reload DI out -> audio interface mic input 1 (for example, can be any other mic input)
Mic input 1 -> track 1 in your daw
Insert the amp modeling on track 1
track 1 -> audio interface output 3 (if you use your mains LR/1-2 outputs for your studio monitors). If you have only 2 outputs on the audio interface, you need to disconnect your monitors and use one of these outputs
Output 3 -> Reload replay input
Replay out -> Amp FX return

At this point, in terms of volume matching, it's empirical: I don't know what volume your FX return on the amp is expecting. So adjust the MATCH knob (max out your sound card output volume) so it doesn't distort your amp power amp stage

Amp speaker output -> Reload spkr in
Reload Spkr out -> cabinet

Soooooo, not impossible, but you're trying to achieve a Jedi Master setup so be ready to spend a bit of time on it. ;)

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Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
Website : Two Notes Audio Engineering
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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 31, 2020 9:36am 
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LOL Jedi Master stuff... LOL

Guillaume, I just want to thank you very much for your quick response.
Everything you've explained makes perfect sense to me, and it's exactly the signal path that I figured it should be.

So, much thanks to you sir!
I will definitely test this connectivity that you've proposed, and I will report back here with my findings after the weekend.

Thanks so much Guillaume!


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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 01, 2020 7:51am 
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We're here to help!

Let me know how this goes, it should be working fine past the initial necessary level adjustments.

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Affiliation: President @ OROSYS SAS, owner of Two Notes Audio Engineering

Creating pro audio product for the guitar and bass players:
Website : Two Notes Audio Engineering
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Two Notes samples on Soundcloud

For the best support, please check the FAQ and create a ticket on the Two notes Help Desk
The largest online community ofTtwo notes products users is on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/twonotesaudiocommunity/
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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 15, 2020 12:03pm 
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Hi. I am new to the forum and have some experience with the Reload but not a lot.
I am looking to do pretty much the same thing but with an Engl Invader 150 mkI (e640) and an Mbox III pro.
The Neural DSP stuff is also what i am using.
I tried to find the fx return sensitivity for the Roadster to elaborate Guillaumes answer, with no luck.
However i fund it for the EVH 5150 here (https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... t.1668525/)
They are also discussing the fx loop levels but doesn't really seem to come to a conclusion, other than a it must be a bit lower line level.
EFFECTS RETURN:
Impedance: Very High Z, 470 k ohms
Designed Level: -10 dBV, 300 mV RMS¨

The Invader states its specs for the fx return as:
from -20 dB nominal, max. 0 dB

The Replay out on the Reload Guillaume talks about is ¨Max level: 19 dBu – Impedance: 300 Ohms¨

The Apolla 8x outputs:
¨By default, the operating level of the line outputs is +20 dBu. The line
outputs and inputs can be globally configured to operate at +24 dBu
signal levels. The Line Outputs can be configured in adjacent pairs to use either –10 dBV or +4 dBu
reference levels. The Monitor Outputs can be configured to use an operating level of +4 dBu (default
value) or -10 dBV¨

The Mbox just says line level.

I realize it isnt a apples to apples comparison, and quite frankly i dont really understand all the numbers.
I am hoping Guillaume or someone else can shed some light on it.

Before i startet researching, my thinking to go straight from the output on the soundcard to the fx return on the amp,
as the output on the soundcard should be a line level signal and fx loops ususally also are line level,
although a bit lower line level on guitaramps. However this is pretty much speculation as i didn't really have any data to back it up.
I realize this isnt an actual question, but i really like if someone more knowledgeable could elaborate.

And now to part 2.
In the Neural plugins you cant bypass the poweramp section, preamp and poweramp is one intergrated block.
I am curious as to wether i can use only the clean poweramp in the Reload to avoid having two guitar poweramps in the chain.
I realize i it might just be theoretic problem as the Engl poweramp is relatively clean as far as guitar poweramps goes.
My suggestion goes something like this:
Copying Guillaumes suggested signalchain untill output 3.
Then from output 3 on the interface straight into speaker in on the Reload.
from speaker out on the Reload to a cab. Only using interface, computer and a Reload with no physical guitar amp (The Invader in my case)

Would the line out on the interface be to low a signal for the speaker in on the Reload, when the Reload is expecting a guite hot signal from a poweramp?

I hope this makes sense to someone.


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