Synergy amps

Rising Farce":2op9g979 said:
The Powerball module in a SYN-50 yields one of the best modern-metal tones I've ever gotten, with any amp. The SLO and Uberschall are also crushing.

I was a big Randall and Egnater modular user for years, but the higher-quality PCBs used in the Synergy modules, and the Fryette-designed power section in the SYN-50, really seem to make a difference.
What is the biggest difference between those three. If I were to go the Syn route, those are the three that I've heard that I like the most.

I'm slowly narrowing my choices down of my next amp...and the Syn50 is on the list. It's been narrowed down to the new Fryette Deliverance, track down a Sig X, Powerball II or the Syn50. What I like about the Syn50 is it's Midi and my whole pedalboard is built around my midi JVM.
 
boyedav":s0azw58p said:
tech21man":s0azw58p said:
I don't doubt they sound good, but especially the hi gain ones...not all tube.

There's an initial 12AX7 stage from the SYN1/2/30/50 before it even hits the modules, then an additional 4 triode stages from (2) 12AX7s in the modules. The reason you'll see more than two tubes in a head is because of the topology of multiple channels that don't always share triodes, stages for FX/reverb, phase invertor.

Which modules are you saying aren't all tube?


I've seen schematics in the past using mosfet follower for the tonestack. It should be the rectifier one. I'll see if I can find it. If I am wrong on this though, it was about the randall MTS line. I don't know if the syn modules changed that. And if so, how would the old ones work the on the new system...
 
Allright so I had a whole file full of MTS schematics on a folder.

I see a separate input stage and to be honest it's all over the place.


I can't see a mosfet follower but I think I have seen on other schematics.


The preamps sometimes have really not THAT much in common with the real thing...on the rectifier values are different here and there, you see plate bypass caps where there are not, the 20pf to ground prior to the second stage is missing...the first coupling cap is smaller...talking about "interpretation" lol. Funny thing is, a smaller coupling cap may help with the rectifier voicing being tighter.


How can they match amps that use different input stages...marshall JCM 800 2204 vs the SLO or rectifier vs the engl stuff vs diezel.


Then you have an "opposite" problem. The engl preamp has four gain stages cascade to a plate fed tonestack without cathode follower, so it needs two 12ax7s. If one is the input stage before it hits the modules...do they use one 12ax7 on the module? Or two and switch to two different preamp modes with parallel paths before the tonestack. If they include the first coupling cap on the chassis, I'd honestly prefer a mosfet follower to this mess!
 
So all of these modular systems have the V1 preamp stage in the module bay, this is why you can't just plug straight into a module.

Prior to Synergy, this meant that the system designer had to design all of the modules around a single V1 input bias value. Randall and Egnator picked the Fender-type value. So the preamps in the Marshall-type and Mesa-type etc. modules had to be adjusted to make up for the warmer, fatter Fender-type V1 stage.

Synergy's system uses a module bay with three switchable V1 values: basically Fender, Marshall, and Soldano-type V1 values. And the module bay selects the appropriate V1 value based on the module that's selected. That in theory should allow the Synergy designers to keep the module preamps much closer to the "real" thing.

It sounds very interesting, but I haven't jumped in because I'm just not happy with any of the power amp solutions that are readily available.
 
That's a nice solution, getting three sets of values I guess. Still why didn't they just route the input to any module and then give the same ampage to power up the 12ax7 and let the module light up three...I mean it's not like the power transformer will need to be SOOO much bigger especially for systems with up to three modules...In the end it's their thought.


If it was about the r/f rejection...I mean you could get by with a ferrite bead a-la mesa. Framus omits it completely. Others go as low as 10K for the input resistor with no problems...anyway.

All these would be acceptable to me but it involves a lot of tuning by ear. Think of the fundamental differences that give a rectifier its difference to an SLO...yeah that topic again. Play a rectifier, dave friedman is right, I can be left though. The preamp IS the same, pretty much, but go full fat to the bass knob of a recto and do the same at soldano. Different transformers, power amp, choke. Same preamp...ok...Recto goes saggy titten maxen fast, the soldano is set for hi volume stays firm, is a bit stiff lower volume etc...So this has to be accounted for IN the preamp.


That is cool, but it really pushes me to digital preamp (modelling) even to a tube power amp...
 
The recordings I've heard of them sound really good. Should be a dream come true for the GAS guzzlers on forums like this- much cheaper and takes way less space than flipping through all of the high end amp makers that Synergy has made deals with. Might not be 100%, but they sound great. Shipping modules would be a lot less of a PITA than shipping whole heads as well.
 
I'm a big Synergy amps fan and have a couple of Syn2's, a Syn 50, a Syn 1 and various modules (VH4, BB/BE, Soldano, Bogner Ecstasy, OS, TDLX, Engl Savage and couple of Salvation modules). Does anyone know which modules are still in the pipeline to come out? I think that a Fryette one was supposed to come out in May and believe they had plans to produce one with Peavey (5150), but don't know for sure what's next in terms of modules coming out.
 
tech21man":30ktx5xc said:
That's a nice solution, getting three sets of values I guess. Still why didn't they just route the input to any module and then give the same ampage to power up the 12ax7 and let the module light up three...I mean it's not like the power transformer will need to be SOOO much bigger especially for systems with up to three modules...In the end it's their thought.


If it was about the r/f rejection...I mean you could get by with a ferrite bead a-la mesa. Framus omits it completely. Others go as low as 10K for the input resistor with no problems...anyway.

All these would be acceptable to me but it involves a lot of tuning by ear. Think of the fundamental differences that give a rectifier its difference to an SLO...yeah that topic again. Play a rectifier, dave friedman is right, I can be left though. The preamp IS the same, pretty much, but go full fat to the bass knob of a recto and do the same at soldano. Different transformers, power amp, choke. Same preamp...ok...Recto goes saggy titten maxen fast, the soldano is set for hi volume stays firm, is a bit stiff lower volume etc...So this has to be accounted for IN the preamp.


That is cool, but it really pushes me to digital preamp (modelling) even to a tube power amp...

That's essentially my problem: the available power amps. And not just from Synergy, the overal rack amp market stinks. The Synergy AC module could be great, but running through a EL34/6L6 power section with negative feedback? Ehhhh... And as you note, the SLO and Recto preamps are very nearly the same but the amps sound vastly different.

NB: the Recto schematics I've seen have some minor differences from the SLO. I kinda remember seeing a cap or two in certain places that would bleed off some high frequencies. And the loop is executed differently. But I have a hard time imagining that those things alone make the amps sound so different.
 
Ecstasy arrived but no host yet

Right now I plan on going into the fx return of my Diamond Phantom (which sounds great with another preamp)
I’ll likely try di too & may get a syn5050 later this year
 
Hey

What's the dealio with the 3 options at the input stage?
The Powerball comes press to #1 (Imagine this is for tight tight tight)
The Ecstasy comes preset at #3, but says to try #2 of you want more headroom

Can anyone else speak on these 3 options and the kind of results in tone/feel one would go for?
I guess:
1 is modern high gain
2 is classic open: clean Fender type tones
3 is classic saturation a la Marshally?
 
"For example, Friedman modules use position 2. The USA voiced modules typically use setting 1. The Soldano SLO uses position 3."

1. 1.5K resistor and 22uf capacitor
2. 2.7K resistor and .68uf capacitor
3. 1.8K resistor and 1uf capacitor

But it varies as to which module uses what. The Engl Savage apparently defaults to 2 while the Powerball defaults to 3, for example. And the AC module defaults to 1.
 
ok, I downloaded each manual and made a list of the modules and their presets:


1: (USA), Savage, Powerball, AC, BMan,TDLX
2: (Friedman), OS, VH4, BE, HBE, DS, 800, Plexi
3: BEBB, Vai, SLO, Ecstasy (use 2 for more headroom), Uberschall (use 1 for more headroom)

Metroplex? This manual was not available

Interesting note, it mentions how 2 is for Friedman in the earlier manuals, but than when BBBE came out it is set to 3

I think this list helps when choosing the next module. It appears as though I don't really have 2 represented and that might help narrow it down. Sure, any module can switch to anything, but this was a fun thought project.
 
cardinal":2degvw30 said:
tech21man":2degvw30 said:
That's a nice solution, getting three sets of values I guess. Still why didn't they just route the input to any module and then give the same ampage to power up the 12ax7 and let the module light up three...I mean it's not like the power transformer will need to be SOOO much bigger especially for systems with up to three modules...In the end it's their thought.


If it was about the r/f rejection...I mean you could get by with a ferrite bead a-la mesa. Framus omits it completely. Others go as low as 10K for the input resistor with no problems...anyway.

All these would be acceptable to me but it involves a lot of tuning by ear. Think of the fundamental differences that give a rectifier its difference to an SLO...yeah that topic again. Play a rectifier, dave friedman is right, I can be left though. The preamp IS the same, pretty much, but go full fat to the bass knob of a recto and do the same at soldano. Different transformers, power amp, choke. Same preamp...ok...Recto goes saggy titten maxen fast, the soldano is set for hi volume stays firm, is a bit stiff lower volume etc...So this has to be accounted for IN the preamp.


That is cool, but it really pushes me to digital preamp (modelling) even to a tube power amp...

That's essentially my problem: the available power amps. And not just from Synergy, the overal rack amp market stinks. The Synergy AC module could be great, but running through a EL34/6L6 power section with negative feedback? Ehhhh... And as you note, the SLO and Recto preamps are very nearly the same but the amps sound vastly different.

NB: the Recto schematics I've seen have some minor differences from the SLO. I kinda remember seeing a cap or two in certain places that would bleed off some high frequencies. And the loop is executed differently. But I have a hard time imagining that those things alone make the amps sound so different.

I would say that you are right to an extent, negative feedback and vanilla power amp " one fits all" is always what will hold it back in terms of matching the real amp BUT the MTS modder like salvation and Rob at Jaded Faith can replicate that to an extent with the pre. It will not be the same but it has the character. My Vox AC 30 from jaded faith is fantastic. I rented the real amp and while it had the edge, Rob has replicated the bigness you get from driving the amp with volume and pick attack when you slam into it or pic lightly. So I'm def. Happy with it. The Synergy module to my ear on clips doesn't do that. It does that one clean and then pushed gain but ends up sounding less voxish to me and more like a Marshall. I personally find a lot of modules are over gained too and that is one thing that isn't in their favour. I heard this as a common complaint with the metropoulos for example.
 
I’m sure that will be a great module
But I’m waiting on the other Fryette with graphic eq or even more so the Herbert
 
Me I'm also interested in the synergy modules! I have the chance to buy the Randall rm 100 with 3 modules for 500 euros. I'm mainly interested in the fryette deliverance module.
 
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