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 Post subject: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sat, Apr 14, 2018 11:31am 
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So, who has one that has some amps to compare it to, and what are you guys using for power amps? Anyone using a tube power amp?
Im thinking about taking the plunge, I have a Marshall Dual Monoblock 100/100 power amp I could run it with along with a bunch of cabs, but what say you??
Anyone had a Kemper to compare it to?

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sat, Apr 14, 2018 7:55pm 
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I've only been able to compare PooToob clips, JT, 'cause I've never owned an Axe.

Been a Kemper man for a few years now, and being the "keep-it-real" dude I know you are, I'd strongly recommend you try / borrow one. If it's an authentic tube sound and feel you're after, no digital product can match or better it IMHO.

Good luck man, and I hope you're well, bro'.

EDIT:
I see sevenstringer's selling his Kemper unpowered rack (what I have). Could be good timing?

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196249

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sat, Apr 14, 2018 9:49pm 
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My personal opinion, is that the axe-fx III is less about tone and more about fixing problems with patch/scene/whatever delay limitations the II has along with bringing the bigger screen so many have asked for. It has the same qwirks the II has in recording to my ears. Just seems like a beefed-up user interface and a re-design to fix a hodgepodge of problems or limitations the II had.

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 5:16am 
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glpg80 wrote:
My personal opinion, is that the axe-fx III is less about tone and more about fixing problems with patch/scene/whatever delay limitations the II has along with bringing the bigger screen so many have asked for. It has the same qwirks the II has in recording to my ears. Just seems like a beefed-up user interface and a re-design to fix a hodgepodge of problems or limitations the II had.


I've never used an Axe FX, but I'm curious about the new version. Especially how it can connect to a DAW directly via USB without the need for a separate interface. What did you mean by "recording quirks" with the II? Can you elaborate?


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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 10:03am 
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Monkey Man wrote:
I've only been able to compare PooToob clips, JT, 'cause I've never owned an Axe.

Been a Kemper man for a few years now, and being the "keep-it-real" dude I know you are, I'd strongly recommend you try / borrow one. If it's an authentic tube sound and feel you're after, no digital product can match or better it IMHO.

Good luck man, and I hope you're well, bro'.

EDIT:
I see sevenstringer's selling his Kemper unpowered rack (what I have). Could be good timing?

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196249

Well, I took too long, its sold...
Im gonna try to do just that, they have some kempers at a store in pensacola, thats good advise. I dont expect it to feel the same, Ive talked to people who have already said it is different, but adaptable. You running through a power amp and guitar cabs? Can you do a wet/dry/wet setup with one?
You too, hope all is well with you and yours!

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 10:14am 
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glpg80 wrote:
My personal opinion, is that the axe-fx III is less about tone and more about fixing problems with patch/scene/whatever delay limitations the II has along with bringing the bigger screen so many have asked for. It has the same qwirks the II has in recording to my ears. Just seems like a beefed-up user interface and a re-design to fix a hodgepodge of problems or limitations the II had.

What recording issues did you run into ? (just curious)
I was primarily gonna record with it, I have not heard of these issues.
Thanks for the honest reply :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 11:49am 
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JTyson wrote:
What recording issues did you run into ? (just curious)
I was primarily gonna record with it, I have not heard of these issues.
Thanks for the honest reply :thumbsup:


nigelpkay wrote:
What did you mean by "recording quirks" with the II? Can you elaborate?


It's strictly a tonal problem and not an interface problem. The II, as well as the III, have a slight chirp on the leading edge of every note played on them. It's hard to catch but it's there. More pronounced in the II than the III, but it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to my ears. If you're using the axe fx as an amplifier source, it's on every model of every video I've been able to find which is unfortunate.

I'm not a hater either. I really wanted the III to be an end all, be all solution for effects and a FOH solution for me. Maybe a future update will remove it since it's a more powerful unit with headroom to grow. As of right now, it just seems like a more user-friendly axe fx II.

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 5:28pm 
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Unbelievable. Uncanny. That chirp is exactly what got me into a number of arguments with Axe users, and after a while I gave up trying to "make" them hear it. I actually posted a declaration in my signature (since removed - that was a while back) that I'd no longer participate in debates of Axe vs Kemper for that reason alone.

Like you, I can't stand the chirp. I suspect that had we never noticed it, we'd be fine, and that it's one of those things that once one hears it, it can't be unheard or unlearned.

JTyson wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:
I've only been able to compare PooToob clips, JT, 'cause I've never owned an Axe.

Been a Kemper man for a few years now, and being the "keep-it-real" dude I know you are, I'd strongly recommend you try / borrow one. If it's an authentic tube sound and feel you're after, no digital product can match or better it IMHO.

Good luck man, and I hope you're well, bro'.

EDIT:
I see sevenstringer's selling his Kemper unpowered rack (what I have). Could be good timing?

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196249

Well, I took too long, its sold...
Im gonna try to do just that, they have some kempers at a store in pensacola, thats good advise. I dont expect it to feel the same, Ive talked to people who have already said it is different, but adaptable. You running through a power amp and guitar cabs? Can you do a wet/dry/wet setup with one?
You too, hope all is well with you and yours!

Don't even know what a W/D/W setup is, matey, but obviously I've heard the term. What I do know is that the options for monitoring and live house feeds are plenty.

For many, including my die-hard tube-head brother, it does feel the same. Just sayin' 'cause it could be that way for you too, JT.

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 5:42pm 
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Like religion, the Axe seems to have this "close enough" mentality. Close enough is fine but when $2500 is involved I prefer more than close enough. That's a lot of quid to invest into something that has a noticeable downfall on the leading edge of every note. It seems more pronounced in players that dig in than those who have a really soft picking hand. I find it hilarious that someone else hears it too. I figured I must be nuts because no one else is mentioning it - but every clip I've ever heard - direct/DAW, mic'd, iphone, etc. has the leading edge chirp that sits just before every picked note out of the unit. My tube amps certainly don't do that, and it's nothing I've ever heard with effects units. Drives me insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 7:06pm 
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I have the 2 and have been using it for recording demos for the past few months. I know EXACTLY what you mean by the chirp. It gets especially irritating when playing muted runs. At first i just thought it was the picks i was using combined with my growing sloppiness. Also - I noticed I'm using more hammer ons and pull offs to avoid the chirp.

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 7:31pm 
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Ok, thats good enough for me, that would drive me crazy trying to go into settings and fix that, when you can't really fix it. Thanks for the honest answers, Ill just stick with what I have, which has been pretty good for me.
Carry on gentlemen :rock:

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 7:33pm 
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Monkey Man wrote:
Unbelievable. Uncanny. That chirp is exactly what got me into a number of arguments with Axe users, and after a while I gave up trying to "make" them hear it. I actually posted a declaration in my signature (since removed - that was a while back) that I'd no longer participate in debates of Axe vs Kemper for that reason alone.

Like you, I can't stand the chirp. I suspect that had we never noticed it, we'd be fine, and that it's one of those things that once one hears it, it can't be unheard or unlearned.

JTyson wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:
I've only been able to compare PooToob clips, JT, 'cause I've never owned an Axe.

Been a Kemper man for a few years now, and being the "keep-it-real" dude I know you are, I'd strongly recommend you try / borrow one. If it's an authentic tube sound and feel you're after, no digital product can match or better it IMHO.

Good luck man, and I hope you're well, bro'.

EDIT:
I see sevenstringer's selling his Kemper unpowered rack (what I have). Could be good timing?

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=196249

Well, I took too long, its sold...
Im gonna try to do just that, they have some kempers at a store in pensacola, thats good advise. I dont expect it to feel the same, Ive talked to people who have already said it is different, but adaptable. You running through a power amp and guitar cabs? Can you do a wet/dry/wet setup with one?
You too, hope all is well with you and yours!

Don't even know what a W/D/W setup is, matey, but obviously I've heard the term. What I do know is that the options for monitoring and live house feeds are plenty.

For many, including my die-hard tube-head brother, it does feel the same. Just sayin' 'cause it could be that way for you too, JT.

Thanks brudda, I'm gonna try out one and see, The Ax3 is out at this point :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 7:40pm 
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JTyson wrote:
Ok, thats good enough for me, that would drive me crazy trying to go into settings and fix that, when you can't really fix it. Thanks for the honest answers, Ill just stick with what I have, which has been pretty good for me.
Carry on gentlemen :rock:


We keep it real. Reminds me of the shitstorm I accidentally started by pointing out the disappearing trick Herbert's can do in a live situation. That thread got so bad pappa himself had to step in :lol: :LOL:

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 8:44pm 
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nigelpkay wrote:
I've never used an Axe FX, but I'm curious about the new version. Especially how it can connect to a DAW directly via USB without the need for a separate interface.


The AFX2 has been able to connect directly via USB to a DAW since it was released in 2011. It’s the AX8 that doesn’t have a built in audio interface.

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 12:07am 
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glpg80 wrote:
Like religion, the Axe seems to have this "close enough" mentality. Close enough is fine but when $2500 is involved I prefer more than close enough. That's a lot of quid to invest into something that has a noticeable downfall on the leading edge of every note. It seems more pronounced in players that dig in than those who have a really soft picking hand. I find it hilarious that someone else hears it too. I figured I must be nuts because no one else is mentioning it - but every clip I've ever heard - direct/DAW, mic'd, iphone, etc. has the leading edge chirp that sits just before every picked note out of the unit. My tube amps certainly don't do that, and it's nothing I've ever heard with effects units. Drives me insane.

As I suggested, it was such a relief to hear that someone else was hearing it too, man. Where were you during those ridiculous arguments I had? I sure could have used the support, brother, as I'm sure would've been the case for you too.

Still, better to find out that I wasn't alone late than never, eh?

PeteLaramee wrote:
I know EXACTLY what you mean by the chirp. It gets especially irritating when playing muted runs. At first i just thought it was the picks i was using combined with my growing sloppiness. Also - I noticed I'm using more hammer ons and pull offs to avoid the chirp.

Amazing. Years later glpg80, you and I all learn that we're not nuts after all! Thanks for that, Pete.

JTyson wrote:
Thanks brudda, I'm gonna try out one and see, The Ax3 is out at this point :thumbsup:

Awesome, JT!

Please let us know how you go, man. Bear in mind that there's little chance you'll get to audition the best Profiles out there in the store. It's likely you'll only have the factory Rigs (presets are called Rigs, which are Profiles (the "raw" amp footprints) combined with whatever stomps, EQ and FX have been dialled in) at hand. You might even be able to surf the Rig Exchange (10 000+ free Rigs uploaded by users) if the store happens to have a net-connected computer hooked up to the Kemper, but every Kemperite knows that the best Rigs out there generally come from the many commercial vendors. This is likely because of their experience dialling in and mic'ing amps in pro situations; the Profiling process itself is super-simple, but setting amps up to sound great isn't necessarily everyone's forte.

You're welcome to join the Kemper forum and ask questions there before even buying the unit, although you'll not be able to post in the members' section. Heaps of dudes have done this and we at the forum are always more-than-willing to help out.

A word of warning 'though - there's a simian idiot, who I suspect you may have already met, who's likely to cross paths with you. My advice is just to ignore him. :lol: :LOL:

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 8:46am 
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glpg80 wrote:
JTyson wrote:
What recording issues did you run into ? (just curious)
I was primarily gonna record with it, I have not heard of these issues.
Thanks for the honest reply :thumbsup:


nigelpkay wrote:
What did you mean by "recording quirks" with the II? Can you elaborate?


It's strictly a tonal problem and not an interface problem. The II, as well as the III, have a slight chirp on the leading edge of every note played on them. It's hard to catch but it's there. More pronounced in the II than the III, but it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to my ears. If you're using the axe fx as an amplifier source, it's on every model of every video I've been able to find which is unfortunate.

I'm not a hater either. I really wanted the III to be an end all, be all solution for effects and a FOH solution for me. Maybe a future update will remove it since it's a more powerful unit with headroom to grow. As of right now, it just seems like a more user-friendly axe fx II.

I'm glad I'm not the only one hearing this. I have a III and heard the same thing on the AX8 when I had it. I haven't seen many people griping about it over on the Fractal forum but it bugs the hell out of me. I own three of the modeled amps and none of them chirp like their corresponding model in the Axe does. There may be a little bit of a chirp on the real thing, but it's really exaggerated on the Axe Fx. It's a shame, because otherwise it sounds and feels ridiculously good. I'm sure it could be dialed out or even fixed in future firmware if enough people complained.


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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 10:31am 
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Can some one post this in a clip or even seconds of a clip? I'm not a huge clip listener but wow.. is this in a live application as well or a recording chirp* as mentioned?


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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 10:46am 
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Yes I want to hear the chirp too. Where can I hear a good clip of it?


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 11:01am 
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I'm not sure if I've ever noticed it.. is it kind of like a noise gate opening & closing quickly?

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 11:06am 
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Wayniac3 wrote:
I'm not sure if I've ever noticed it.. is it kind of like a noise gate opening & closing quickly?

For me it's a high frequency "chirp" that sounds like the initial pick attack is being emphasized in an unpleasant way. It's most noticeable on bright, high gain models when playing through a regular guitar cab.


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 11:46am 
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marshall2553 wrote:
Wayniac3 wrote:
I'm not sure if I've ever noticed it.. is it kind of like a noise gate opening & closing quickly?

For me it's a high frequency "chirp" that sounds like the initial pick attack is being emphasized in an unpleasant way. It's most noticeable on bright, high gain models when playing through a regular guitar cab.


I tried to listen for this last night, but :confused:

I mean, I hear there is a definite pick attack sound when you hit the strings, but I pretty much get that on any rig.... especially when using an OD Booster like a Tubescreamer, which I use 97% of the time. It doesn't sound any worse to me than any other high gain sound, especially when a booster, or active pickups are used.

The over-abundance of lower mids (500hz) is what annoys me the most about Fractal stuff. Maybe it is my rig, but I always have to cut that frequency dramatically.


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 11:52am 
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Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 12:48pm 
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BYTOR wrote:
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.

The fact that so many pros use it and there aren't a bunch of people bitching about it on the Fractal forum makes me think it's something about my setup or crappy technique. That's why I was glad (and surprised) to hear others were hearing it too. FWIW I don't notice it all playing it FRFR with cab models on. I'm not ragging on the Axe Fx. I've owned pretty much every Fractal product, their amps models are the best out there by far.

At one time there was a "Pick Attack" parameter in the amp block that I think was introduced specifically to address this. It sounds like it would be useful in dialing out what I'm hearing but it was removed at some point.

Quote:
PICK ATTACK– This parameter controls a sophisticated dynamic range processor that operates on leadingedge transients. Negative values reduce pick attack while positive values enhance it.


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 1:03pm 
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marshall2553 wrote:
BYTOR wrote:
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.

The fact that so many pros use it and there aren't a bunch of people bitching about it on the Fractal forum makes me think it's something about my setup or crappy technique. That's why I was glad (and surprised) to hear others were hearing it too. FWIW I don't notice it all playing it FRFR with cab models on. I'm not ragging on the Axe Fx. I've owned pretty much every Fractal product, their amps models are the best out there by far.

At one time there was a "Pick Attack" parameter in the amp block that I think was introduced specifically to address this. It sounds like it would be useful in dialing out what I'm hearing but it was removed at some point.

Quote:
PICK ATTACK– This parameter controls a sophisticated dynamic range processor that operates on leadingedge transients. Negative values reduce pick attack while positive values enhance it.


Pick Attack is still there, at least on my Axe-FX II, Q9.04, which is the most recent version. It is on the advanced page of amp controls. Maybe it was taken out of the AX8?

The Definition control, or some of the other controls on the preamp page of the amp page might help also.


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 1:05pm 
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I remember the old digitech pedal board whatever it was called would sound like a helicopter if you picked fast. What a piece of poop that was!


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 1:26pm 
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Shask wrote:
marshall2553 wrote:
BYTOR wrote:
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.

The fact that so many pros use it and there aren't a bunch of people bitching about it on the Fractal forum makes me think it's something about my setup or crappy technique. That's why I was glad (and surprised) to hear others were hearing it too. FWIW I don't notice it all playing it FRFR with cab models on. I'm not ragging on the Axe Fx. I've owned pretty much every Fractal product, their amps models are the best out there by far.

At one time there was a "Pick Attack" parameter in the amp block that I think was introduced specifically to address this. It sounds like it would be useful in dialing out what I'm hearing but it was removed at some point.

Quote:
PICK ATTACK– This parameter controls a sophisticated dynamic range processor that operates on leadingedge transients. Negative values reduce pick attack while positive values enhance it.


Pick Attack is still there, at least on my Axe-FX II, Q9.04, which is the most recent version. It is on the advanced page of amp controls. Maybe it was taken out of the AX8?

The Definition control, or some of the other controls on the preamp page of the amp page might help also.

That parameter doesn't appear to be on the III and I sold my AX8. There's an "Input Dynamics" parameter that does seem to reduce it a bit, but I don't think it's only affecting the pick attack like the old parameter.

I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:


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I have the III, also had the II and the Ultra before that. To the OP, I think if you want to get the most out of it, I would not use it with a power amp and cab, I'd go FRFR speaker system. The ability to change speakers, cabs and mic's is a lot of the flexibility and great features of the Axe.

I've never heard the chirp, but I've always used FRFR speakers, not amps and guitar cabs.

I also think it helps to NOT think of the Axe as something to replace all your amps and pedals. For $2500 (new price), the III is cheaper than most high-end amps, so just think of it as another amp or a whole separate complete rig.

I have not had a chance to mess around much with the III because 2 days after it arrived, I started construction on my home studio. So I've had everything pulled apart and stored. Good news is final paint today, so I can start pulling shit back in tomorrow...

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stratjacket wrote:
I have the III, also had the II and the Ultra before that. To the OP, I think if you want to get the most out of it, I would not use it with a power amp and cab, I'd go FRFR speaker system. The ability to change speakers, cabs and mic's is a lot of the flexibility and great features of the Axe.

I've never heard the chirp, but I've always used FRFR speakers, not amps and guitar cabs.

I also think it helps to NOT think of the Axe as something to replace all your amps and pedals. For $2500 (new price), the III is cheaper than most high-end amps, so just think of it as another amp or a whole separate complete rig.

I have not had a chance to mess around much with the III because 2 days after it arrived, I started construction on my home studio. So I've had everything pulled apart and stored. Good news is final paint today, so I can start pulling shit back in tomorrow...

This is good advice. I enjoy the Axe most playing it through FRFR speakers. I've driven myself crazy playing it through a guitar cab and obsessively comparing it to my real amps to reassure myself that it sounded "real" enough.


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 4:53pm 
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marshall2553 wrote:
stratjacket wrote:
I have the III, also had the II and the Ultra before that. To the OP, I think if you want to get the most out of it, I would not use it with a power amp and cab, I'd go FRFR speaker system. The ability to change speakers, cabs and mic's is a lot of the flexibility and great features of the Axe.

I've never heard the chirp, but I've always used FRFR speakers, not amps and guitar cabs.

I also think it helps to NOT think of the Axe as something to replace all your amps and pedals. For $2500 (new price), the III is cheaper than most high-end amps, so just think of it as another amp or a whole separate complete rig.

I have not had a chance to mess around much with the III because 2 days after it arrived, I started construction on my home studio. So I've had everything pulled apart and stored. Good news is final paint today, so I can start pulling shit back in tomorrow...

This is good advice. I enjoy the Axe most playing it through FRFR speakers. I've driven myself crazy playing it through a guitar cab and obsessively comparing it to my real amps to reassure myself that it sounded "real" enough.



This is the rat hole that is created when companies create the buzz around "real, in the room amp tone". Then there is the IR black hole. I love my Kemper for what it does for me. I don't compare it to a real tube amp because it isn't a tube amp. For me, they are very different experiences. I play it exclusively through computer monitors and my Atomic CLR. I play all of my amps (tubes and digital) and they are tools that let me express myself through my guitars.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 6:17pm 
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marshall2553 wrote:

I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:


I guess this is a bit ironic because the chirp was one of the things I spent a long time trying to figure out why real amps did it and how to reproduce it. You can really hear it on the first VH albums.

Long story short: it's related to the amp's compression. You can reduce it by reducing the Power Supply Sag and/or the Speaker Compression. Or turn down the Master Volume. Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

Personally I think the chirp is desirable and why I spent so much time trying to figure out what caused it.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 8:25pm 
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cliffc8488 wrote:
marshall2553 wrote:

I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:


I guess this is a bit ironic because the chirp was one of the things I spent a long time trying to figure out why real amps did it and how to reproduce it. You can really hear it on the first VH albums.

Long story short: it's related to the amp's compression. You can reduce it by reducing the Power Supply Sag and/or the Speaker Compression. Or turn down the Master Volume. Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

Personally I think the chirp is desirable and why I spent so much time trying to figure out what caused it.


When I mod amps I listen to the pick chirp as well and mod the amp for it. I was taught this by a popular amp modder.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 8:27pm 
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damm
this is a big can of worms
i was getting ready to throw down for the 3
so the kemper doesn't chirp?
i CAN most def hear the chirp on VH1 and i like it
i always referred to it as the 'clank' in my mind
now i am gonna go drive myself crazy and listen to 1000 fractal videos
it always sounded good to me before i learned about the chirp [SUBLIMINAL-DE-ADVERTISING ]COURTESY OF MY RIG TALK BROS
tee hee

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cliffc8488 wrote:
marshall2553 wrote:
Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

This may be why it seems more pronounced to me on the Axe than my real amps. I almost always have the master volume a bit higher on the model than I do on the real amp.


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 16, 2018 9:55pm 
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psychodave wrote:
cliffc8488 wrote:
marshall2553 wrote:

I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:


I guess this is a bit ironic because the chirp was one of the things I spent a long time trying to figure out why real amps did it and how to reproduce it. You can really hear it on the first VH albums.

Long story short: it's related to the amp's compression. You can reduce it by reducing the Power Supply Sag and/or the Speaker Compression. Or turn down the Master Volume. Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

Personally I think the chirp is desirable and why I spent so much time trying to figure out what caused it.


When I mod amps I listen to the pick chirp as well and mod the amp for it. I was taught this by a popular amp modder.


None of my amplifiers or tube amplifiers that I've ever played of the common folk varieties have ever had that pronounced picking noise leading every note played through them regardless of gain, master volume, or volume knob setting. I can honestly say that if my amplifiers did show any of that on high gain sounds, not low gain/edge of breakup gain, like it does in the AFX2 and AFX3 then I wouldn't own them. It drives me insane.

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I don't know if this the same thing but I get that noise when I'm picking and depending on the angle the face of my fingernail is also hitting the strings. I think digital units accentuate this, but I hear it on my real tube amps to a lesser degree.


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I have found that when a Fractal is doing something weird it was always something I was tweaking weird. It can be a pain with so many parameters to tweak so I found downloading a known good sounding patch helped then tweak from there. Save the original patch though so WHEN you screw it up just start over. And I myself much tube power amp sections to FRFR...YMMV.

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So it turns out that the chirp is cliff himself.

That explains......

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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 7:13am 
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marshall2553 wrote:
cliffc8488 wrote:
marshall2553 wrote:
Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

This may be why it seems more pronounced to me on the Axe than my real amps. I almost always have the master volume a bit higher on the model than I do on the real amp.


The master volume on the Axe is not supposed to be 1:1 with the real amp. It's designed to have a greater usable range, so running it higher than you would on the real amp is normal.


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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 8:12am 
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Keep in mind that the Axe is 20Kz-20Hz. Guitar amps aren't. I always cut the top and bottom 3 bands on the global eq. I've used the Axe for a good while and don't hear an annoying chirp, just the pick attack. I hear the same attack on my BE50, Plexi and Egnater TOL.

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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 9:13am 
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This is MY personal experience.

I have never owned an Axe Efx product so I can't directly speak to the "chirp" sound regarding any of those units. However, I am a Kemper owner and had an issue with the dreaded chirp from the Kemper that took me a while to sort out. The chirp IS related to volume and gain as Cliff described. Here's the thing, in a "bedroom studio" you really can only crank the volume and gain to a certain point before it becomes a squealing an uncontrollable mess. With recording with a Kemper via your DAW you can crank the gain beyond a usable and controllable point and then just simple turn down the track volume to make it manageable, however, since the gain is still up too high you'll notice the chirp more and more. In other words, recording direct to a DAW and bypassing your real cab allows you to set a "profile" or amp model beyond what would be controllable in the real world.

So, I backed down the volume and gain of my profile and suddenly the chirp sounds like the normal chirp from a real amp.

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My brother’s band members have the Kemper and axefx xl, and mixed together live sound good, Kemper sounds a little more real to me, but the axe has a little more sustain, but also a little more modeler muffled. Not a lot. Just a hair. How my ears hear it.

I’d take either, in fact was thinking of a helix for 4 cable method with my EVH, but on the fence with that.


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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 2:48pm 
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Nice! Time to get an axe fx 2 for 500$ haha... I just found out the 3 has just been released, I was like wtf! I thought they were suppose to keep the 2 for long. I guess they needed some money! I wonder if the sound quality has been improved that much... So damn expensive at the moment. You can either pay 2499$ or skip the wait time for 3499$ that is outrageous. Well at least technology is pushing further


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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 6:31pm 
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So I was a bit unclear about what exactly the "chirp" was, but it was said its similar to what you are hearing on the earlyVH albums, so I'm much more clear at this point as to what was being described. I've actually tried to find settings on my Marshalls that would somewhat mimic that pick attack, but I never really found it and decided my amps were more compressed in the preamp section than his and part of it was the way he was hitting the strings. Who knows??
So, I'm back to being indecisive.... :lol: :LOL:
Gonna try the Kemper, there are some close by I can get hands on with, but I'm still interested in the AX3, Ive heard some huge tones that came out of them, Mark Day seems to have no problem getting monster tones, everything I hear him do on them sounds amazing, Some clip I heard him doing the other night had some of the Queensryche Mindcrime tones absolutely nailed down, some of my fav tones ever

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danyeo wrote:
I have found that when a Fractal is doing something weird it was always something I was tweaking weird. It can be a pain with so many parameters to tweak so I found downloading a known good sounding patch helped then tweak from there. Save the original patch though so WHEN you screw it up just start over. And I myself much tube power amp sections to FRFR...YMMV.

So your using it with a tube power amp and regular cabs? Thats how I intended on running it (I already have them) any regrets??

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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 7:07pm 
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amiller wrote:
This is MY personal experience.

I have never owned an Axe Efx product so I can't directly speak to the "chirp" sound regarding any of those units. However, I am a Kemper owner and had an issue with the dreaded chirp from the Kemper that took me a while to sort out. The chirp IS related to volume and gain as Cliff described. Here's the thing, in a "bedroom studio" you really can only crank the volume and gain to a certain point before it becomes a squealing an uncontrollable mess. With recording with a Kemper via your DAW you can crank the gain beyond a usable and controllable point and then just simple turn down the track volume to make it manageable, however, since the gain is still up too high you'll notice the chirp more and more. In other words, recording direct to a DAW and bypassing your real cab allows you to set a "profile" or amp model beyond what would be controllable in the real world.

So, I backed down the volume and gain of my profile and suddenly the chirp sounds like the normal chirp from a real amp.

Thanks, thats good info, I have not ruled out a Kemper at all, but what you've stated makes perfect sense

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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 7:21pm 
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controlled_voltage wrote:
damm
this is a big can of worms
i was getting ready to throw down for the 3
so the kemper doesn't chirp?
i CAN most def hear the chirp on VH1 and i like it
i always referred to it as the 'clank' in my mind
now i am gonna go drive myself crazy and listen to 1000 fractal videos
it always sounded good to me before i learned about the chirp [SUBLIMINAL-DE-ADVERTISING ]COURTESY OF MY RIG TALK BROS
tee hee

:lol: :LOL:
Agreed, Ive listened to a ton of them also. Apparently, they can both chirp, but more folks running the fractal are experiencing it in a negative way. I would not mind having some patches that enabled me to get that sound, I kinda like it on those early VH albums, but I dont want to hear it when I dont want to hear it. I know a guy with a Kemper who has some early VH tone patches that do have the chirp, but I dont hear it on other patches, so it is apparently dependent on the settings, at least with the Kemper.
Jeesh.. My head is starting to hurt :lol: :LOL:

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glpg80 wrote:
JTyson wrote:
Ok, thats good enough for me, that would drive me crazy trying to go into settings and fix that, when you can't really fix it. Thanks for the honest answers, Ill just stick with what I have, which has been pretty good for me.
Carry on gentlemen :rock:


We keep it real. Reminds me of the shitstorm I accidentally started by pointing out the disappearing trick Herbert's can do in a live situation. That thread got so bad pappa himself had to step in :lol: :LOL:

:lol: :LOL:
I remember that!

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 8:40pm 
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live4metal wrote:
I just found out the 3 has just been released, I was like wtf! I thought they were suppose to keep the 2 for long


AFX2 was announced May 2011 & was released around Sept 2011........7 years ain't long enough? :confused:

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 Post subject: Re: Axe Efx 3??
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 17, 2018 9:15pm 
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JTyson wrote:
danyeo wrote:
I have found that when a Fractal is doing something weird it was always something I was tweaking weird. It can be a pain with so many parameters to tweak so I found downloading a known good sounding patch helped then tweak from there. Save the original patch though so WHEN you screw it up just start over. And I myself much tube power amp sections to FRFR...YMMV.

So your using it with a tube power amp and regular cabs? Thats how I intended on running it (I already have them) any regrets??



I had an AX8, sold it but will get another modeler. Not sure about getting another AX8 since it doesn't take much for it to hit the CPU limit. But I used it by itself through JBL monitors, or with amps as a pedalboard or into the FX return of a tube amp using the AX8 as a preamp. Through FX return it sounds like an amp. You can tweak yourself to death to get it to sound exactly like your amp if you choose, or at least tweak in the ballpark and treat it as it's own thing.

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