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PostPosted: Wed, May 02, 2018 11:01pm 
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What can be changed in the circuits and components to make them exactly to spec of the original amps (assuming that there are some differences. Also obviously skipping the hand wiring)?


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PostPosted: Mon, May 07, 2018 6:11pm 
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cr7r9 wrote:
What can be changed in the circuits and components to make them exactly to spec of the original amps (assuming that there are some differences. Also obviously skipping the hand wiring)?

Mostly transformers you cant get anymore. Thats why they get higher prices.

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PostPosted: Tue, May 08, 2018 9:40am 
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I would start with upgrading to Synergy Royal Mustard caps, these sound just like the original mustard caps.

You can get replica Transformers that are built just like the originals from metro/heyboer

NOS tubes. I try to stay away from these because it can get damn expensive for basically a consumable item. NOS pre's may not be a bad investment


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 08, 2018 10:42am 
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I have friends that have bought new production amps from incredible builders with real mustards, original parts and even custom made transformers by Merren, etc. once they hear and play originals, the sell the new stuff. There is something magical to the originals. It doesn’t have to be 60’s Marshall either. I’ve heard the same exact reaction to people buying new master volume citand then hearing the originals. I wish the new stuff was better...I’d cash out in a second.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 08, 2018 5:11pm 
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No, you wouldn't Dave, and neither would I. That's why I still have five original Marshall heads out in the shop.

Yes, a clone with ridiculous attention to detail, parts, transformers and tubes can sound really damn close to an old Marshall. I know, I've done it.

But when you find out getting all those unobtanium parts cost around $3300, then plus the labor to put it together, you figure out a real Marshall is about $500 more. I did this with Greg Germino in 2011 on a custom build, and that's what it cost me, about $3800 for a 100w 68 Plexi spec build with NOS Mustards (68 date codes), Merren trannies, NOS glass, black Marshall levant on the head cab, etc. etc.

It just comes down to finding an old Marshall someone will let go of for a price you can live with.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 09, 2018 10:09pm 
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Who does the original marshall transformers better? metro/heyboer or merren?

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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 11, 2018 12:14pm 
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glpg80 wrote:
Who does the original marshall transformers better? metro/heyboer or merren?



Can't comment on the merren, however the metro/heyboer c1998 clones sound fantastic.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 11, 2018 12:23pm 
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Here's the thing, If you take the time to do the research you can build a damn close replica for $1500 or less, and learn something along the way.

Another thing, amps need time to break-in. I've build several 1968 SLP replicas that sounded a little underwhelming until a years worth of hard gigging.
After breaking-in they sound amazing.

All this stuff is like a well worn pair of bluejeans, vs a new pair of bluejeans.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 11, 2018 10:45pm 
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CrazyNutz wrote:
Here's the thing, If you take the time to do the research you can build a damn close replica for $1500 or less, and learn something along the way.

Another thing, amps need time to break-in. I've build several 1968 SLP replicas that sounded a little underwhelming until a years worth of hard gigging.
After breaking-in they sound amazing.

All this stuff is like a well worn pair of bluejeans, vs a new pair of bluejeans.


There is some wisdom here. I was unimpressed with my first 50w Metro/Marshall Plexi build for the first several months. Later on Pete Thorn and Dave Friedman heard it and were impressed. The break in thing is for real, IME.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 11, 2018 10:52pm 
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I have $1300 into my '69 100w build, which has Merren iron. I have about $900 into my '68 12000 build, which has ClassicTone iron, but then I had some spare parts laying around from other builds. I don't have any Mustard caps in either, but they both absolutely slay. And, since a clone build will never have the value of a vintage Marshall, you might as well go with the radial instead of the more expensive axial Mustards. They will sound the same.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 16, 2018 7:34pm 
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cr7r9 wrote:
What can be changed in the circuits and components to make them exactly to spec of the original amps (assuming that there are some differences. Also obviously skipping the hand wiring)?

If we are talking strictly about component "specs", the biggest difference between the original 1959, 1987 and JTM45's and the re-issues is that the power supply filtering is wrong on the re-issues. Marshall just slammed in 50uf x 50uf cans everywhere.
The filtering on the 2203 re-issue is correct, as are the coupling cap values and resistor values in all the re-issues, for the most part.

If we are talking about component quality, then it's night and day across the board between the re-issues and the old stuff.
The shitty little box caps Marshall sticks in everything now sound like ass, and the transformers are lack-luster to say the least.
Getting the filtering right, and pulling the board in a re-issue and changing out the caps for something like the Synergy Royal Mustards will help a lot. However, that can be an exercise in frustration because the PCB's are single-sided crap, without through plated holes, and it's far to easy to blow a trace if you're not careful. Then you're still stuck with the mediocre OPT...

By far, the best solution these days is to just build a clone from scratch. Do your research and source good quality components and build the circuit you want. It will be way cheaper than buying the Marshall re-issue, and sound exponentially better.

The other option is to just buy the original, but be aware that they can really be hit and miss. In the last couple of months I've had a 73 SuperBass, a late 70's 2204 and an early 80's 2203 through here for filter caps, new tubes & bias etc.. and only the 2203 had the Mojo. The 2204 was mediocre, and the completely stock SuperBass sucked donkey balls.
YMMV

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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 9:24am 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
No, you wouldn't Dave, and neither would I. That's why I still have five original Marshall heads out in the shop.

Yes, a clone with ridiculous attention to detail, parts, transformers and tubes can sound really damn close to an old Marshall. I know, I've done it.

But when you find out getting all those unobtanium parts cost around $3300, then plus the labor to put it together, you figure out a real Marshall is about $500 more. I did this with Greg Germino in 2011 on a custom build, and that's what it cost me, about $3800 for a 100w 68 Plexi spec build with NOS Mustards (68 date codes), Merren trannies, NOS glass, black Marshall levant on the head cab, etc. etc.

It just comes down to finding an old Marshall someone will let go of for a price you can live with.


This is very true, although I still feel certain the originals still have that certain something. Maybe it’s the decades of use (aka break-in) Sad part is the new one won’t hold its value nearly as much as the Marshall.

My friend in the comments above had the custom build (Germino) with all NOS parts for years. Then he found a Marshall on a whim and loved it. His custom build just didn’t compare. I’m talking both the 1987 and 2203 circuits. He ended up selling the Germinos.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 19, 2018 3:57pm 
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True custom/clones don't hold the value of a real Marshall, so one has to take that into consideration.

I've played several vintage originals, some have the mojo, some not so much.

Hell some people don't wan't a clone simply because it doesn't say Marshall on it :) We'll the fix for that is just buy the logo and slap it on :rock: Instant mojo increase :rock: Haha, just don't be an asshole and try to sell it as a authentic Marshall.


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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 21, 2018 8:57pm 
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My 2203X was a good sounding amp but Must agree that the transformers were lackluster. It just wasn't as loud and gnarly as I thought it should be.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 3:04pm 
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CrazyNutz wrote:
True custom/clones don't hold the value of a real Marshall, so one has to take that into consideration.

I've played several vintage originals, some have the mojo, some not so much.

Hell some people don't wan't a clone simply because it doesn't say Marshall on it :) We'll the fix for that is just buy the logo and slap it on :rock: Instant mojo increase :rock: Haha, just don't be an asshole and try to sell it as a authentic Marshall.


Same here. I’ve played some real duds. I have no issues with clones either. There are some great clones out there.

I had a 74 SL that I got from the original owner. Still had the GE 6550’s in it. The amp was crazy loud. The original owner didn’t play it much. I think the mojo it had was due to not being used much and it still sounded fresh...the output transformer was solid. I ended up selling the amp to someone who had it modded. Then sold it to someone else. I was saddened to see a mint amp get modded, it that’s life.

I still remember the day I heard my 71SL for the first time. It was LedZeppelins “heart breaker” tone. Just a flat out monster. My 67 plexi is godly for single coil stuff. Has that Hendrix bigness to it. With humbuckers and a pedal out front, it is pounding. I’ve blown 30 watt speakers while using it with TWO 4x12’s. That amp is responsible for my hearing loss and tinnitus.

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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 24, 2018 10:58am 
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psychodave wrote:

I had a 74 SL that I got from the original owner. Still had the GE 6550’s in it. The amp was crazy loud. The original owner didn’t play it much. I think the mojo it had was due to not being used much and it still sounded fresh...the output transformer was solid. I ended up selling the amp to someone who had it modded. Then sold it to someone else. I was saddened to see a mint amp get modded, it that’s life.


Man, kills me inside when people do that that. Why not just get a clone, or a re-issue if they're going to mod it. :cry: :cry:


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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 24, 2018 2:16pm 
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Yeah, me, too. There are so many options these days, very accurate clones, re-issues, DIY kits, and tons of takes on hot-rods. If it's a question of making the amp playable, like it a recap, then I don't have a problem... these are amps, not museum pieces (at least in my case), and meant to be played. If it's not the sound you want, somebody else DOES, so please... leave it alone and get something more suitable.

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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 24, 2018 3:55pm 
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psychodave wrote:
CrazyNutz wrote:
I still remember the day I heard my 71SL for the first time. It was LedZeppelins “heart breaker” tone. Just a flat out monster. My 67 plexi is godly for single coil stuff. Has that Hendrix bigness to it. With humbuckers and a pedal out front, it is pounding. I’ve blown 30 watt speakers while using it with TWO 4x12’s. That amp is responsible for my hearing loss and tinnitus.


Brad King came to the shop 6-7 years ago, hooked up my 71 SL to four 412 cabs at once. He had that look on his face when he hit an A or E chord you just don't see real often.

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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 24, 2018 9:31pm 
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CrazyNutz wrote:
psychodave wrote:

I had a 74 SL that I got from the original owner. Still had the GE 6550’s in it. The amp was crazy loud. The original owner didn’t play it much. I think the mojo it had was due to not being used much and it still sounded fresh...the output transformer was solid. I ended up selling the amp to someone who had it modded. Then sold it to someone else. I was saddened to see a mint amp get modded, it that’s life.


Man, kills me inside when people do that that. Why not just get a clone, or a re-issue if they're going to mod it. :cry: :cry:


+1 :aww:

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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 25, 2018 6:21am 
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Off topic but I see no problem modding a vintage amp when it was already modded to begin with. Most of what you see out there has already been drilled or modded. Thats what I look for if I want to mod one. My 73 pcb had four holes already drilled so I had it modded.
My 73 Superlead original turret had one hole drilled on the back for a PPIMV earlier in it's life. I still consider this amp an amp that should not be modded :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 25, 2018 8:27am 
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glip22 wrote:
Off topic but I see no problem modding a vintage amp when it was already modded to begin with.


Agree.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 25, 2018 5:29pm 
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glip22 wrote:
Off topic but I see no problem modding a vintage amp when it was already modded to begin with. Most of what you see out there has already been drilled or modded. Thats what I look for if I want to mod one. My 73 pcb had four holes already drilled so I had it modded.
My 73 Superlead original turret had one hole drilled on the back for a PPIMV earlier in it's life. I still consider this amp an amp that should not be modded :thumbsup:

Yep, agree on both points!

:cheers:

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 9:23pm 
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CrazyNutz wrote:
glip22 wrote:
Off topic but I see no problem modding a vintage amp when it was already modded to begin with.


Agree.


I agree as well. My 72 SL had a hole in the front and back. I said fuck it and added another tube for a mod and a few holes for switches. It’s been a Cameron Aldrich for the last 7+ years.

My 71 has a hole drilled in the front as well... I found some good brushed aluminum metal that matched perfectly so I filled it. I’ve tinkered with it, but it’s stock now.

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PostPosted: Sun, Jul 01, 2018 11:19am 
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CrazyNutz wrote:
glpg80 wrote:
Who does the original marshall transformers better? metro/heyboer or merren?



Can't comment on the merren, however the metro/heyboer c1998 clones sound fantastic.

I can also attest that the Metro C1998 self lead is about as good as it gets

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PostPosted: Tue, Aug 07, 2018 5:49pm 
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Just like pick ups from a 1958 Strat or Les Paul, all components and Iron are subject to changes in character due to time. One really needs to take the time, resources and precise measurements to get close. Then you have to factor Cabinet, Speaker and "Vintage wall Voltages etc.

Do not get in a hurry and allow for break in and flow times.

Just my $.02

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