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PostPosted: Thu, May 17, 2018 5:30pm 
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paulyc wrote:
maddnotez wrote:
JerEvil wrote:
It's funny. In all my years of buying tube amps, no one has ever shipped me one with the tube pulled and packaged separately be it new or used.


I have done both. I don't sell a lot of amps but the first time I saw them pulled and labeled was from GC.

I do like that method better as it is easy to break an installed tube during shipment. However I have received a few amps with the tubes in and 90% of the time there were no issues.

As a buyer you should always expect to buy new tubes for any amp. I have had brand new amps come with a bad tube. It is not an uncommon thing.

Scott Splawn shipped his amps that way, that’s where I got it from.

Not my Quick Rod. Maybe he started since though as I bought it years ago.

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PostPosted: Thu, May 17, 2018 6:37pm 
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boyedav wrote:
I'm assuming you've read the details of Paypal Buyer Protection:

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/u ... protection

Quote:
Important: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party specified by PayPal as part of the settlement of your claim. PayPal’s Purchase Protection program does not entitle you to reimbursement for the return shipping costs that you may incur.


Quote:
Step 4: Comply with PayPal’s shipping requests in a timely manner, if you’re filing a Significantly Not as Described claim. PayPal may require you, at your expense, to ship the item back to the seller, to PayPal or to a third party (which will be specified by PayPal) and to provide proof of delivery.


The dude's gotta get the item back to you and provide proof of delivery (perhaps including a signature) at his own expense. His arrogant ass could decide he's not going to ship it back unless you pay for that, or maybe that he doesn't need to pack it properly, or that he doesn't need a signature.

Also:

Quote:
The following claims will qualify as a Significantly Not as Described claim:

You received a completely different item. For example, you purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.
The condition of the item was misrepresented. For example, the item was described as “new” but the item was used.
The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic (i.e. counterfeit).
The item is missing major parts or features and those facts were not disclosed in the description of the item when you bought it.
You purchased a set of three items but only received two.
The item was damaged during shipment.


The only thing that seems close would be if he was claiming it was damaged in shipping. If that's the case, it seems reasonable to initiate a FedEx damage investigation. Even if FedEx won't pay a damage claim, there's a least some burden on him to legitimize his claim of Significantly Not as Described. Would a FedEx investigation support his claim? Is there a chance he wouldn't cooperate with the investigation? Has he in any way substantiated his the basis of his claim?

If he doesn't do things exactly by the book, call it out to Paypal and reference their policy verbatim.

Also, I don't think it would be bad if his abusive messages got into the hands of Paypal. Where they have discretion, his dickishness could bite him in the ass.

Finally, have you searched the various forums for anything he's posted? I bought a preamp from a guy and one of the four channels didn't work. I ended up having to file a dispute because he claimed it worked fine, but I found a forum posting from months earlier where he was looking for assistance with the same problem I was experiencing. Maybe this cuntstain has a NAD posting out there somewhere. Maybe a pic on his FB page. Who knows. Put on your PI cap ;-)

Best of luck to you in any case.

You’ve nailed everything that’s happened right on the head. He has gone with the ‘Item not as described’ and saying that it was damaged as the reason. I would love to post a screen shot of this guys Facebook so that everyone can be ‘on notice’ about this . My only reason for not doing this is that I’m worried that if I have to sue this dude (I do have a lawyer friend in the family), I don’t want to do something that will come back to bite me like defamation of character of whatever. Never had to deal with anyone or anything remotely like this. Frankly, if I could just get the power amp back, I’ve got loads of 6L6’s; even a quartet of Mesas; that I could slap in it and it will probably be fine. Funny thing is, I found him on Facebook and he has a fully public profile. I went thru all of his postings and pix all the way back to 2012, and there isn’t a single notion that this guy plays guitar, likes guitar, is into music, or even knows what a guitar is. Nothing guitar related to be found. Weird. I know where he lives, but he doesn’t know where I live;;;I sent the amp both times from a FedEx store. Was even thinking to maybe hire a collection agency to pay him a visit and secure the amp that way. His last messages to me on Reverb before Reverb shit the communication down due to verbal fisticuffs was that he was going to take his sweet time sending the amp back and was going to pack it poorly like FedEx did. This guy has a hatred for FedEx,,, so much so that if the bomber guy that killed himself in Texas a few months ago had not been found yet, I would probably be calling the FBI to tip them off to look at this guy.
So, I’ll keep you guys posted on how this pans out, 850$ out on the line hurts bad,,,guess it could have been a lot worse though. Trying to stay positive though. If the amp does come home to me, it’s staying put! 2 tours of the Texas Amp Massacre is enuff for me!
Len


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PostPosted: Thu, May 17, 2018 7:50pm 
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I’m now in the “not going to ever sell an amp again” camp. Why the hell would I want have the headache of these types of situations.

Plus the fact that packing an amp for shipping actually sucks balls.

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PostPosted: Thu, May 17, 2018 8:30pm 
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I'm glad the shipping must be paid by him after waiting 7 weeks it should be his responsibility since he fucked up the FedEx claim window.

Why is the asshole making threats to you when he waited 7 weeks to supposedly notify you of shipping damage, this guys is a fucking entitled, narcissist, nutcase jackwagon? :gethim:

Send him the all the PP return policies and make sure he follows it to the letter. I am assuming they will withhold his refund until you receive the amp back correct?

Best of luck, I hope you get it back undamaged.


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PostPosted: Thu, May 17, 2018 10:44pm 
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Paypal will not refund him until you have the amp back, or proof of delivery. They usually will give the buyer a few weeks to return the item. I would absolutely send over this guys rants about packing it like shit..etc. Anything you can use against this douche. If he does not send the amp within the Paypal time limit he will default on his claim and thats that. You definitely will either get your $$ or your amp back, so that shouldnt be a worry. How the amp arrives back to you is a whole other story though. This link has some pretty good resources http://www.screw-paypal.com/index.html

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PostPosted: Fri, May 18, 2018 6:55am 
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Paypal has already pulled the funds from my bank. It’s in a ‘pending’ status, so I am hoping that they are waiting for proof of shipping from him. Also found out that this looser used Paypal Credit for the purchase. What a piece of work this guy is.


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PostPosted: Fri, May 18, 2018 10:44am 
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There are people who are just aholes. I was going to try and do some clips with other amps for my site. A former RT member told me "Jim, just go to GC and get each of the amps you don't have, record, then return it under their 30 day policy. It won't cost you a cent. Screw them."

I'm sorry but it seems like this was a try before buying thing, especially in light of the paypal credit payment, and the 7 week tryout timeframe.

I have to wonder if the buyer didn't break the tubes himself to file the claim now.

Sorry, sir, there are just entitled buttholes out there that think they can do anything as long as they can blame someone else and not be held accountable.

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PostPosted: Fri, May 18, 2018 11:16am 
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LanierP wrote:
Paypal has already pulled the funds from my bank. It’s in a ‘pending’ status, so I am hoping that they are waiting for proof of shipping from him. Also found out that this looser used Paypal Credit for the purchase. What a piece of work this guy is.


Yea, Paypal has the funds in escrow but they have not released them to the buyer yet. If I remember correctly they wont refund him until the delivery is confirmed and not just the item has shipped. I would call or email them just to confirm that though. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Fri, May 18, 2018 12:37pm 
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Wow. Glad I pulled my reverb account. I wouldn't sell a Fn E string on there. Nice of them to help. As usual. Middle man making money and doing nothing when a problem arrises. Glad everyone loves reverb so much. They ain't shit when it matters as we all see. Blame PayPal I guess is the word. They just transfer the money. Reverb opens the door for this


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PostPosted: Fri, May 18, 2018 12:53pm 
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Beandust wrote:
Wow. Glad I pulled my reverb account. I wouldn't sell a Fn E string on there. Nice of them to help. As usual. Middle man making money and doing nothing when a problem arrises. Glad everyone loves reverb so much. They ain't shit when it matters as we all see. Blame PayPal I guess is the word. They just transfer the money. Reverb opens the door for this

It sounds like the buyer used Paypal checkout. If you use Reverb Direct checkout, it still goes thru Paypal but Paypal has to go thru Reverb to get a refund. Reverb decides, not Paypal. Then you don't have to deal with Paypal but Reverb instead. Dealing with Reverb is better than Paypal but the end result might still be the same.

Just curious but what if you (hypothetically) sold it on Reverb for $1 and then charged (and insured for) $849 shipping? "Sure man, you can have your dollar back when I get the amp back...on your dime."


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PostPosted: Fri, May 18, 2018 1:08pm 
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SpiderWars wrote:
Beandust wrote:
Wow. Glad I pulled my reverb account. I wouldn't sell a Fn E string on there. Nice of them to help. As usual. Middle man making money and doing nothing when a problem arrises. Glad everyone loves reverb so much. They ain't shit when it matters as we all see. Blame PayPal I guess is the word. They just transfer the money. Reverb opens the door for this

It sounds like the buyer used Paypal checkout. If you use Reverb Direct checkout, it still goes thru Paypal but Paypal has to go thru Reverb to get a refund. Reverb decides, not Paypal. Then you don't have to deal with Paypal but Reverb instead. Dealing with Reverb is better than Paypal but the end result might still be the same.

Just curious but what if you (hypothetically) sold it on Reverb for $1 and then charged (and insured for) $849 shipping? "Sure man, you can have your dollar back when I get the amp back...on your dime."

Ok. Great story. I had my turn with reverb. They were impressive until I had a problem. Sad reality is dirt bags exist and paypal slides with the money spent side of things. Had reverb shown me a different side of why they are so wonderful" maybe I'd have another opinion. Sorry


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PostPosted: Mon, Jun 04, 2018 4:47pm 
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I'm just curious how this ended up. I imagine the dirtball buyer got everything he wanted, but kinda hoping that fairness ended up prevailing.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:00pm 
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Ok guys, here’s where this stands. Where I left off here was that I agreed with Paypal that I will refund this deadbeat buyer in full but only if the amp is sent back to me, including pictures of the amp and it’s damaged tubes, as well as pix of the box. Paypal sent this offer to the buyer. The next day, my bank account was debited the full refund amount from Paypal. I called Paypal to get shipping or tracking information, they said they are working on it. A week later, nothing, so I call Paypal again. Same story,,”were workin on contacting the buyer to get him to return the merchandise”. A few days later, call Paypal again, this time speak with a supervisor,,,they say they have given it to their specialized team to ‘reopen the case’,, and for me to just be patient. A couple more calls to Paypal,,,same fucken thing,,,we are trying to get ahold of the buyer. I even offered to pay for the shipping. WTF is wrong with Paypal here? In the meantime, this deadbeat asshole completely deletes his Reverb account, most likely in an effort to evade any attempt of me contacting him thru the original transaction platform. Mind you, Reverb was no help whatsoever during any of this anyways. They pushed the whole thing over to Paypal and did nothing to help.
So yesterday, I decide to search eBay to see if any Mesa 395 PowerAmps were up for sale, or had been sold; and there’s this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Simu ... cvip-panel
THIS IS THE GUY! THIS IS MY AMP! The fucker sold it on eBay 2 weeks after getting a refund!
There’s no question this is my 395. The scratches on the front match. The screw rash is the same on the rack ears, and the seller is in San Antonio, Tx!
So now, maybe I DO have some recourse here. Couldn’t I report the amp stolen to San Antonio police department? He didn’t take a picture of the serial # in his eBay listing(probably on purpose), but I have a picture of the serial #, and plenty of pics of the amp that show that they are one in the same. What do you guys think is the best way to handle this. I SO want to burn this guy for putting me thru this shit!
Sorry for the dissertation guys; any advice is greatly appreciated. Reverb has left me high and dry. Paypal has left me the same. Hopefully there is something I can still do here to get some justice!!
Len


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:16pm 
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Yes, I would call the San Antonio police department, give them a factual based summary with the pictures.
With a police report in hand, you should be able to pull the details of who bought it from him to confirm the serial number.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:31pm 
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What a fucking asshole. :thumbsdown:


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:35pm 
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LanierP wrote:
Ok guys, here’s where this stands. Where I left off here was that I agreed with Paypal that I will refund this deadbeat buyer in full but only if the amp is sent back to me, including pictures of the amp and it’s damaged tubes, as well as pix of the box. Paypal sent this offer to the buyer. The next day, my bank account was debited the full refund amount from Paypal. I called Paypal to get shipping or tracking information, they said they are working on it. A week later, nothing, so I call Paypal again. Same story,,”were workin on contacting the buyer to get him to return the merchandise”. A few days later, call Paypal again, this time speak with a supervisor,,,they say they have given it to their specialized team to ‘reopen the case’,, and for me to just be patient. A couple more calls to Paypal,,,same fucken thing,,,we are trying to get ahold of the buyer. I even offered to pay for the shipping. WTF is wrong with Paypal here? In the meantime, this deadbeat asshole completely deletes his Reverb account, most likely in an effort to evade any attempt of me contacting him thru the original transaction platform. Mind you, Reverb was no help whatsoever during any of this anyways. They pushed the whole thing over to Paypal and did nothing to help.
So yesterday, I decide to search eBay to see if any Mesa 395 PowerAmps were up for sale, or had been sold; and there’s this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Simu ... cvip-panel
THIS IS THE GUY! THIS IS MY AMP! The fucker sold it on eBay 2 weeks after getting a refund!
There’s no question this is my 395. The scratches on the front match. The screw rash is the same on the rack ears, and the seller is in San Antonio, Tx!
So now, maybe I DO have some recourse here. Couldn’t I report the amp stolen to San Antonio police department? He didn’t take a picture of the serial # in his eBay listing(probably on purpose), but I have a picture of the serial #, and plenty of pics of the amp that show that they are one in the same. What do you guys think is the best way to handle this. I SO want to burn this guy for putting me thru this shit!
Sorry for the dissertation guys; any advice is greatly appreciated. Reverb has left me high and dry. Paypal has left me the same. Hopefully there is something I can still do here to get some justice!!
Len


PayPal and eBay still have a very close relationship (PayPal was started by and as part of eBay if you remember). You may be able to play this angle with PayPal. Clearly PayPal owes you your money now. They should also be able to verify whether the eBay seller in question is the same as the buyer from your transaction. Going through PayPal is probably the easiest option here, which sucks because it's going to be frustrating as hell.

You can try to contact eBay to tell them that you believe stolen goods were sold on their platform and that you need their help contacting the buyer of that amp to verify the serial number. I'd expect some major bureaucratic headaches, but they may be able to help there.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/proh ... cy?id=4334

If PayPal doesn't help but you do indeed verify that the eBay amp is your amp, then you should contact the San Antonio police and press charges. It would probably be a class A misdemeanor (based on the value of the stolen item, from a quick google search of Texas law), but at least you get to cause him the headache. Then the state of Texas will be able to levy a fine, which could result in his drivers licence being suspended, his car getting booted/towed, or whatever else the state may do in such situations when someone owes them money. That could be fun for you. They should also be pretty convincing in making sure PayPal gives you back your money.

If PayPal doesn't help you, and you can't verify that it was indeed your amp sold on eBay, then your absolute last resort may be to go through small claims court.The downside is that, even if it's ruled in your favor, there's really nothing that can force this guy to fork over the money. If you have a lawyer friend, get his/her help.

FINAL THING: don't assume that the eBay seller is the same guy that stole your amp. It's likely that he sold it to a second hand outfit local to him. That eBay store has 100% positive feedback and has three other guitars for sale right now. It doesn't match the profile you've painted of this deadbeat buyer. This may be an ideal situation, because if they bought it legit (and documented it, which means they would have taken a copy of the loser's driver's license and recorded everything in their books), they're probably going to be angry at this guy also, and they would cooperate with eBay and law enforcement to help keep their butts clean also.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just going with how I would proceed here.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:50pm 
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First, I would contact ebay again and again. Demand a supervisor and demand your money back.

I have no idea what the hell is going on here but from my experiences people get 10 days to respond, then it is auto win for you.

Second, you know where this guy lives.

Most of why I say these things is because of this:

dirtyfunkg wrote:
If PayPal doesn't help you, and you can't verify that it was indeed your amp sold on eBay, then your absolute last resort may be to go through small claims court.The downside is that, even if it's ruled in your favor, there's really nothing that can force this guy to fork over the money. If you have a lawyer friend, get his/her help.


Sadly, this is the truth.

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Last edited by maddnotez on Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:54pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:52pm 
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dirtyfunkg wrote:
LanierP wrote:
Ok guys, here’s where this stands. Where I left off here was that I agreed with Paypal that I will refund this deadbeat buyer in full but only if the amp is sent back to me, including pictures of the amp and it’s damaged tubes, as well as pix of the box. Paypal sent this offer to the buyer. The next day, my bank account was debited the full refund amount from Paypal. I called Paypal to get shipping or tracking information, they said they are working on it. A week later, nothing, so I call Paypal again. Same story,,”were workin on contacting the buyer to get him to return the merchandise”. A few days later, call Paypal again, this time speak with a supervisor,,,they say they have given it to their specialized team to ‘reopen the case’,, and for me to just be patient. A couple more calls to Paypal,,,same fucken thing,,,we are trying to get ahold of the buyer. I even offered to pay for the shipping. WTF is wrong with Paypal here? In the meantime, this deadbeat asshole completely deletes his Reverb account, most likely in an effort to evade any attempt of me contacting him thru the original transaction platform. Mind you, Reverb was no help whatsoever during any of this anyways. They pushed the whole thing over to Paypal and did nothing to help.
So yesterday, I decide to search eBay to see if any Mesa 395 PowerAmps were up for sale, or had been sold; and there’s this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Simu ... cvip-panel
THIS IS THE GUY! THIS IS MY AMP! The fucker sold it on eBay 2 weeks after getting a refund!
There’s no question this is my 395. The scratches on the front match. The screw rash is the same on the rack ears, and the seller is in San Antonio, Tx!
So now, maybe I DO have some recourse here. Couldn’t I report the amp stolen to San Antonio police department? He didn’t take a picture of the serial # in his eBay listing(probably on purpose), but I have a picture of the serial #, and plenty of pics of the amp that show that they are one in the same. What do you guys think is the best way to handle this. I SO want to burn this guy for putting me thru this shit!
Sorry for the dissertation guys; any advice is greatly appreciated. Reverb has left me high and dry. Paypal has left me the same. Hopefully there is something I can still do here to get some justice!!
Len


PayPal and eBay still have a very close relationship (PayPal was started by and as part of eBay if you remember). You may be able to play this angle with PayPal. Clearly PayPal owes you your money now. They should also be able to verify whether the eBay seller in question is the same as the buyer from your transaction. Going through PayPal is probably the easiest option here, which sucks because it's going to be frustrating as hell.

You can try to contact eBay to tell them that you believe stolen goods were sold on their platform and that you need their help contacting the buyer of that amp to verify the serial number. I'd expect some major bureaucratic headaches, but they may be able to help there.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/proh ... cy?id=4334

If PayPal doesn't help but you do indeed verify that the eBay amp is your amp, then you should contact the San Antonio police and press charges. It would probably be a class A misdemeanor (based on the value of the stolen item, from a quick google search of Texas law), but at least you get to cause him the headache. Then the state of Texas will be able to levy a fine, which could result in his drivers licence being suspended, his car getting booted/towed, or whatever else the state may do in such situations when someone owes them money. That could be fun for you. They should also be pretty convincing in making sure PayPal gives you back your money.

If PayPal doesn't help you, and you can't verify that it was indeed your amp sold on eBay, then your absolute last resort may be to go through small claims court.The downside is that, even if it's ruled in your favor, there's really nothing that can force this guy to fork over the money. If you have a lawyer friend, get his/her help.

FINAL THING: don't assume that the eBay seller is the same guy that stole your amp. It's likely that he sold it to a second hand outfit local to him. That eBay store has 100% positive feedback and has three other guitars for sale right now. It doesn't match the profile you've painted of this deadbeat buyer. This may be an ideal situation, because if they bought it legit (and documented it, which means they would have taken a copy of the loser's driver's license and recorded everything in their books), they're probably going to be angry at this guy also, and they would cooperate with eBay and law enforcement to help keep their butts clean also.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just going with how I would proceed here.


Thanks much my friend. All good points you’ve made here.
Len


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 2:58pm 
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i'd talk with the PD first, and understand what they can/can't do. i'd guess/hope they can resolve this if need be..then contact PP/Ebay and give them a working day to refund all your GD money, or let them know the PD has been notified. at this point, fuck'em all man. you've done your part, you've been patient and the only thing it's gotten you is a royal jellyless fucking.

and-or, what maddnotez said.

this entire deal sucks major balls...sorry for you dude. wish there was an easy out for ya here...

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 3:08pm 
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LanierP wrote:
dirtyfunkg wrote:
LanierP wrote:
Ok guys, here’s where this stands. Where I left off here was that I agreed with Paypal that I will refund this deadbeat buyer in full but only if the amp is sent back to me, including pictures of the amp and it’s damaged tubes, as well as pix of the box. Paypal sent this offer to the buyer. The next day, my bank account was debited the full refund amount from Paypal. I called Paypal to get shipping or tracking information, they said they are working on it. A week later, nothing, so I call Paypal again. Same story,,”were workin on contacting the buyer to get him to return the merchandise”. A few days later, call Paypal again, this time speak with a supervisor,,,they say they have given it to their specialized team to ‘reopen the case’,, and for me to just be patient. A couple more calls to Paypal,,,same fucken thing,,,we are trying to get ahold of the buyer. I even offered to pay for the shipping. WTF is wrong with Paypal here? In the meantime, this deadbeat asshole completely deletes his Reverb account, most likely in an effort to evade any attempt of me contacting him thru the original transaction platform. Mind you, Reverb was no help whatsoever during any of this anyways. They pushed the whole thing over to Paypal and did nothing to help.
So yesterday, I decide to search eBay to see if any Mesa 395 PowerAmps were up for sale, or had been sold; and there’s this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Simu ... cvip-panel
THIS IS THE GUY! THIS IS MY AMP! The fucker sold it on eBay 2 weeks after getting a refund!
There’s no question this is my 395. The scratches on the front match. The screw rash is the same on the rack ears, and the seller is in San Antonio, Tx!
So now, maybe I DO have some recourse here. Couldn’t I report the amp stolen to San Antonio police department? He didn’t take a picture of the serial # in his eBay listing(probably on purpose), but I have a picture of the serial #, and plenty of pics of the amp that show that they are one in the same. What do you guys think is the best way to handle this. I SO want to burn this guy for putting me thru this shit!
Sorry for the dissertation guys; any advice is greatly appreciated. Reverb has left me high and dry. Paypal has left me the same. Hopefully there is something I can still do here to get some justice!!
Len


PayPal and eBay still have a very close relationship (PayPal was started by and as part of eBay if you remember). You may be able to play this angle with PayPal. Clearly PayPal owes you your money now. They should also be able to verify whether the eBay seller in question is the same as the buyer from your transaction. Going through PayPal is probably the easiest option here, which sucks because it's going to be frustrating as hell.

You can try to contact eBay to tell them that you believe stolen goods were sold on their platform and that you need their help contacting the buyer of that amp to verify the serial number. I'd expect some major bureaucratic headaches, but they may be able to help there.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/proh ... cy?id=4334

If PayPal doesn't help but you do indeed verify that the eBay amp is your amp, then you should contact the San Antonio police and press charges. It would probably be a class A misdemeanor (based on the value of the stolen item, from a quick google search of Texas law), but at least you get to cause him the headache. Then the state of Texas will be able to levy a fine, which could result in his drivers licence being suspended, his car getting booted/towed, or whatever else the state may do in such situations when someone owes them money. That could be fun for you. They should also be pretty convincing in making sure PayPal gives you back your money.

If PayPal doesn't help you, and you can't verify that it was indeed your amp sold on eBay, then your absolute last resort may be to go through small claims court.The downside is that, even if it's ruled in your favor, there's really nothing that can force this guy to fork over the money. If you have a lawyer friend, get his/her help.

FINAL THING: don't assume that the eBay seller is the same guy that stole your amp. It's likely that he sold it to a second hand outfit local to him. That eBay store has 100% positive feedback and has three other guitars for sale right now. It doesn't match the profile you've painted of this deadbeat buyer. This may be an ideal situation, because if they bought it legit (and documented it, which means they would have taken a copy of the loser's driver's license and recorded everything in their books), they're probably going to be angry at this guy also, and they would cooperate with eBay and law enforcement to help keep their butts clean also.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just going with how I would proceed here.


Thanks much my friend. All good points you’ve made here.
Len

You also need to go to your bank and tell them the debit for the amp was an unauthorized transaction. They can Claw the money back. Don't take no for an answer, tell them this was fraud. You never authorized this. Also, if your Visa is how it is tied to your bank you can use them as well. I've done this in the past once when I didn't get an amp back. Put your foot down and demand it be refunded to you.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 3:11pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
LanierP wrote:
dirtyfunkg wrote:
LanierP wrote:
Ok guys, here’s where this stands. Where I left off here was that I agreed with Paypal that I will refund this deadbeat buyer in full but only if the amp is sent back to me, including pictures of the amp and it’s damaged tubes, as well as pix of the box. Paypal sent this offer to the buyer. The next day, my bank account was debited the full refund amount from Paypal. I called Paypal to get shipping or tracking information, they said they are working on it. A week later, nothing, so I call Paypal again. Same story,,”were workin on contacting the buyer to get him to return the merchandise”. A few days later, call Paypal again, this time speak with a supervisor,,,they say they have given it to their specialized team to ‘reopen the case’,, and for me to just be patient. A couple more calls to Paypal,,,same fucken thing,,,we are trying to get ahold of the buyer. I even offered to pay for the shipping. WTF is wrong with Paypal here? In the meantime, this deadbeat asshole completely deletes his Reverb account, most likely in an effort to evade any attempt of me contacting him thru the original transaction platform. Mind you, Reverb was no help whatsoever during any of this anyways. They pushed the whole thing over to Paypal and did nothing to help.
So yesterday, I decide to search eBay to see if any Mesa 395 PowerAmps were up for sale, or had been sold; and there’s this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Simu ... cvip-panel
THIS IS THE GUY! THIS IS MY AMP! The fucker sold it on eBay 2 weeks after getting a refund!
There’s no question this is my 395. The scratches on the front match. The screw rash is the same on the rack ears, and the seller is in San Antonio, Tx!
So now, maybe I DO have some recourse here. Couldn’t I report the amp stolen to San Antonio police department? He didn’t take a picture of the serial # in his eBay listing(probably on purpose), but I have a picture of the serial #, and plenty of pics of the amp that show that they are one in the same. What do you guys think is the best way to handle this. I SO want to burn this guy for putting me thru this shit!
Sorry for the dissertation guys; any advice is greatly appreciated. Reverb has left me high and dry. Paypal has left me the same. Hopefully there is something I can still do here to get some justice!!
Len


PayPal and eBay still have a very close relationship (PayPal was started by and as part of eBay if you remember). You may be able to play this angle with PayPal. Clearly PayPal owes you your money now. They should also be able to verify whether the eBay seller in question is the same as the buyer from your transaction. Going through PayPal is probably the easiest option here, which sucks because it's going to be frustrating as hell.

You can try to contact eBay to tell them that you believe stolen goods were sold on their platform and that you need their help contacting the buyer of that amp to verify the serial number. I'd expect some major bureaucratic headaches, but they may be able to help there.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/proh ... cy?id=4334

If PayPal doesn't help but you do indeed verify that the eBay amp is your amp, then you should contact the San Antonio police and press charges. It would probably be a class A misdemeanor (based on the value of the stolen item, from a quick google search of Texas law), but at least you get to cause him the headache. Then the state of Texas will be able to levy a fine, which could result in his drivers licence being suspended, his car getting booted/towed, or whatever else the state may do in such situations when someone owes them money. That could be fun for you. They should also be pretty convincing in making sure PayPal gives you back your money.

If PayPal doesn't help you, and you can't verify that it was indeed your amp sold on eBay, then your absolute last resort may be to go through small claims court.The downside is that, even if it's ruled in your favor, there's really nothing that can force this guy to fork over the money. If you have a lawyer friend, get his/her help.

FINAL THING: don't assume that the eBay seller is the same guy that stole your amp. It's likely that he sold it to a second hand outfit local to him. That eBay store has 100% positive feedback and has three other guitars for sale right now. It doesn't match the profile you've painted of this deadbeat buyer. This may be an ideal situation, because if they bought it legit (and documented it, which means they would have taken a copy of the loser's driver's license and recorded everything in their books), they're probably going to be angry at this guy also, and they would cooperate with eBay and law enforcement to help keep their butts clean also.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just going with how I would proceed here.


Thanks much my friend. All good points you’ve made here.
Len

You also need to go to your bank and tell them the debit for the amp was an unauthorized transaction. They can Claw the money back. Don't take no for an answer, tell them this was fraud. You never authorized this. Also, if your Visa is how it is tied to your bank you can use them as well. I've done this in the past once when I didn't get an amp back. Put your foot down and demand it be refunded to you.


This is probably the best answer IMO. Unauthorized charges. Bank should refund you.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 4:38pm 
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You can try the Police, but they are usually worthless. Unless you can lead them to exactly where your property is.

Your best bet is call your bank, make a fraud claim. Call Ebay, and paypal, make a fraud claim.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 8:48pm 
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So Paypal knew this deal was going sideways and they did not even force the buyer to wait until you received your amp back before refunding the buyer. Something is very very wrong here............at this point isn't PP liable since they refunded the guy before your getting your amp back, they are complicit in defrauding you. All I can say is wow just wow.

That means anyone who wants to pull this shit can pretty much get away with it. Maybe you can get a lawyer to write a legal letter to PP implicating them is this case of fraud and possible force them to refund you. The letter needs to chronologically track every detail , times and documents that you do have as so forth. PP might actually respond to that.

They are the ones not representing the seller here, there has to be some protection for you somewhere in this mess of shit.

I hope this works out for you, because anyone selling a big ticket item will be in your shoes eventually once it becomes know this is so easy to do as a buyer.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 10:25pm 
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Holy clusterfuck.

I'd figured this had been resolved.

I have no recommendations for something this far out of bed. I'd suggest possibly getting the local news involved to warn others for starters, file a report with the police, and possibly look into a civil court case with a lawyer.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 10:28pm 
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SpiderWars wrote:
He should have inspected the contents as soon as it arrived. Seven weeks is way past any grace period for that.


Fedex gives you 10 days after you receive the package last time I checked. 7 weeks is 49 days. Sorry, but your buyer waited way too long to inspect, check or contact you.

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Here are the comparison pics of the amp just before I shipped it to this guy!
Note the two areas of scratches (top left is a mark just to the right of the screw; bottom left is a chip in the paint at the 8oclock position next to the left 4ohm jack)
Top pic is mine, bottom pic is from his sold listing on EBay
Image
Image
I don’t think there is any question that this is my amp. I have plenty of other pix that show matching scratches and such. The guy clearly put a new set of tubes in it and sold it.


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Thats your amp dude! Also look at the angle on the nuts on the output jacks. All four match up perfectly.


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Also the second tube back behind the INPUT B jack has a red half moon paint marking, then in the Ebay photo that same tube behind the brand new Mesa STR 420 with a new style Mesa label on the base the exact same half moon red paint mark.

Yes, I agree... that is your amplifier. You now need to organize all this information in a clear and concise manner and then contact Ebay fraud division get all the info on the seller and open a case with Paypal, Reverb and Ebay. Paypal has to know what they did was wrong issuing a refund before you received your amp back. That in itself caused you to be defrauded period, they are complicit and a lawyer should see it this way too.

There has to be a protection mechanism for Paypal sellers somewhere in the legalese, you need to press them on this and find out what it is. They brokered the terms of the return between you and the buyer, that is a legal contract you have it all in writing, you need to tell them this and at least pay for a legal letter by an attorney mailed certified to Paypal's management/legal department even if it is a bluff you will need that letter and all of your correspondence and proof regarding this matter. They allowed you to be defrauded like this you should be able to bring a case against Paypal. But they probably will only respond to a legal action taken by you which probably will cost more than the amp its worth by retaining an attorney, they will be counting on this. That lawyer friend of your should be able to do this quite easily at a discount if not free even if they only sign a letter drafted by you. See if their demeanor changes once they are legally notified, if not then you know you have done all you could do. This really sucks not just for you but everyone who sells items online, Thanks for letting us know what is happening with this case.

Obviously this guy knows and uses the Paypal 90 day return policy to perpetrate crimes, it seems he has done it before, and chances are that the ebay seller is him, sometimes they aren't that smart to or they are brazen enough to flaunt it thinking they will never be caught.


Last edited by harddriver on Tue, Jul 31, 2018 11:59am, edited 1 time in total.

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Here is the best pic I have of the serial #. Just wanted to see if you guys concur with how I read it (it was a tough one to get a picture of clearly).
I see the number as :62807. Anyone see a different number here?(mainly the last 3 digits).
Image

I am going to attempt a charge-back on Paypal thru my BOA Visa Debit Card in which the funds were withdrawn. Will also look into reporting the amp stolen with San Antonio PD. I am 99% sure that the seller who sold this on EBay is the same person who failed to return the merchandise. In his description of the amp on the eBay listing, his verbiage is identical to the messages he sent me from our Reverb transaction, and he even mentions that he will only ship via USPS, which matches what he said on Reverb in his long tirade about his hatred for FedEx. This whole experience has made me extremely gunshy on selling any gear period. Maybe craigslist isn’t such a bad way to go after all ? A face to face transaction versus dealing with all these issues with Paypal; etc...
Thanks for reading all this guys. I will keep updating here as things unfold.
With hope,
Len


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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 10:26am 
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Ebay/Paypal aren't supposed to release the refund to the buyer until the amp is proven returned through tracking, or so I thought? How could they give the buyer his refund without first proving you received the amp back? This is the process last I knew....

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That's good that they charged the amount to your BOA card. Now you have BOA involved in an internet fraud case. You need to forward all your contact BOA open a case and send them all you correspondences with Paypal, Reverb and Ebay and all you pics. They should hopefully side with you and do a charge back on Paypal, you pretty much have all the proof you need to get a charge back in my opinion. Paypal/Reverb(they are not off the hook, they have this guy's info and address) and Ebay then would have to go after the Ebay seller of you amp.

You obviously have a name and address where this was shipped to right?

Since BOA is involved I think you have a chance at getting your money back, if they had pulled it out of your Bank account you would be screwed. If you planned that by forcing them to pull it from you BOA credit card it was a smart thing for you to do.


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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 10:41am 
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Hopefully BOA sided with you.

For your serial number, check https://mesaboogie.zendesk.com/hc/en-us ... _site=true

Switch Track 395 should start with an S.

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JMMP wrote:
Hopefully BOA sided with you.

For your serial number, check https://mesaboogie.zendesk.com/hc/en-us ... _site=true

Switch Track 395 should start with an S.

Thanks for the link here. Obviously, what I thought was a ‘6’ is actually an ‘S’. So I’m reading it S2807 as my serial #. Just want to make sure I have it right.


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That’s how I’m reading it!

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What's the name of the guy in San Antonio? He's local to me. The location from the ebay seller was New York.

If he used paypal credit, you may have trouble getting a paypal refund, since they'd be taking the loss from the buyer who isn't paying the debt. Hopefully your bank intervenes on your behalf.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 11:20am 
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harddriver wrote:
That's good that they charged the amount to your BOA card. Now you have BOA involved in an internet fraud case. You need to forward all your contact BOA open a case and send them all you correspondences with Paypal, Reverb and Ebay and all you pics. They should hopefully side with you and do a charge back on Paypal, you pretty much have all the proof you need to get a charge back in my opinion. Paypal/Reverb(they are not off the hook, they have this guy's info and address) and Ebay then would have to go after the Ebay seller of you amp.

You obviously have a name and address where this was shipped to right?

Since BOA is involved I think you have a chance at getting your money back, if they had pulled it out of your Bank account you would be screwed. If you planned that by forcing them to pull it from you BOA credit card it was a smart thing for you to do.

When this happened to me they pulled it from my bank, I then went to the bank and told them it was an unauthorized transaction that I did not approve. They clawed my money back within an hour. No problem.

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Yeah man, I have BOA, and every time I've had a unauthorized transaction, they get my money back. Sounds like the criteria was not met, and you never authorized it.
So fuck Paypal, ebay, and reverb.


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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 12:05pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
harddriver wrote:
That's good that they charged the amount to your BOA card. Now you have BOA involved in an internet fraud case. You need to forward all your contact BOA open a case and send them all you correspondences with Paypal, Reverb and Ebay and all you pics. They should hopefully side with you and do a charge back on Paypal, you pretty much have all the proof you need to get a charge back in my opinion. Paypal/Reverb(they are not off the hook, they have this guy's info and address) and Ebay then would have to go after the Ebay seller of you amp.

You obviously have a name and address where this was shipped to right?

Since BOA is involved I think you have a chance at getting your money back, if they had pulled it out of your Bank account you would be screwed. If you planned that by forcing them to pull it from you BOA credit card it was a smart thing for you to do.

When this happened to me they pulled it from my bank, I then went to the bank and told them it was an unauthorized transaction that I did not approve. They clawed my money back within an hour. No problem.


As Racerxrated states above, after you present your case to BOA you should demand that they do a charge back to Paypal. Because they broke the terms of the return agreement that was in writing it should be incumbent upon them to attain the money back from the buyer after it is returned to you first. They are just trying to get out of an already bad situation and want to take the fall and hope you don't fight it. My god the criminals are beginning to have more rights than the law abiding in this country. :thumbsdown:


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“What's the name of the guy in San Antonio? He's local to me. The location from the ebay seller was New York.”

In reference to the seller being from New York, I’m not seeing that anywhere. See pic below. Says ships from San Antonio:
Image

Here’s a pick of the house I shipped the amp to
Image

Finally, the Reverb Order that shows who this deadbeat is for anyone who may have the unfortunate circumstance of doing business with this loser!
Image


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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 1:16pm 
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LanierP wrote:
I decide to search eBay to see if any Mesa 395 PowerAmps were up for sale, or had been sold; and there’s this:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Simu ... cvip-panel
THIS IS THE GUY! THIS IS MY AMP! The fucker sold it on eBay 2 weeks after getting a refund!
There’s no question this is my 395. The scratches on the front match. The screw rash is the same on the rack ears, and the seller is in San Antonio, Tx!
So now, maybe I DO have some recourse here. Couldn’t I report the amp stolen to San Antonio police department? He didn’t take a picture of the serial # in his eBay listing(probably on purpose), but I have a picture of the serial #, and plenty of pics of the amp that show that they are one in the same. What do you guys think is the best way to handle this. I SO want to burn this guy for putting me thru this shit!
Sorry for the dissertation guys; any advice is greatly appreciated. Reverb has left me high and dry. Paypal has left me the same. Hopefully there is something I can still do here to get some justice!!
Len


I misunderstood. When I clicked that link it says the guy is in Planview NY. But I missed this at the top of the page...

"The listing you’re looking for is no longer available. Check out this similar item we found for you."

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Looks like a different name at that address per tax records. This person bought the house on 3/14/18

ORLANDO BETANCOURT
5807 BRAMBLETREE ST
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78247

http://bcad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?prop_id=676054

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mhenson42 wrote:
Looks like a different name at that address per tax records. This person bought the house on 3/14/18

ORLANDO BETANCOURT
5807 BRAMBLETREE ST
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78247

http://bcad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?prop_id=676054


I had my fiancé do a background check on him at her work (she’s head of HR & has access to a very in depth background search software used for new hires). This address was not listed as an address related to him, so he probably had the amp sent to this address so he’s not ‘shitting where he eats’ so to speak. What she did discover is that Fernando has a wrap sheet. Theft, Domestic Disturbance-Impeding Airway (a 3rd degree felony!) and a host of other items. Also has been thru about 20 different phone #’s in the last 5 years.
If the bank can get me my money back, I’ll be fine, but part of me wants to get the cops on this guy. My ideal scenario is my money back and the amp returned, with this guy busted. A long shot I know. This whole thing has just really chapped my ass!
Len


Last edited by LanierP on Wed, Aug 01, 2018 3:31am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 2:39pm 
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LanierP wrote:
mhenson42 wrote:
Looks like a different name at that address per tax records. This person bought the house on 3/14/18

ORLANDO BETANCOURT
5807 BRAMBLETREE ST
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78247

http://bcad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?prop_id=676054


I had my fiancé do a background check on him at her work (she’s head of HR & has access to a very in depth background search software used for new hires). This address was not listed as an address related to him, so he probably had the amp sent to this address so he’s not ‘shitting where he eats’ so to speak. What she did discover is that Fernando has a wrap sheet. Theft, Domestic Diaturbance-Impeding Airway (a 3rd degree felony!) and a host of other items. Also has been thru about 20 different phone #’s in the last 5 years.
If the bank can get me my money back, I’ll be fine, but part of me wants to get the cops on this guy. My ideal scenario is my money back and the amp returned, with this guy busted. A long shot I know. This whole thing has just really chapped my ass!
Len

See if you can find out if this shithead is on probation for the previous stuff..you might have an even quicker recourse through his agent.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 3:51pm 
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You know, maybe this seems like a bad or quite small consolation, but in the end there's still KARMA. Something similar happened to me, too (fortunately with a much smaller sum of money that I lost) a while back on eBay (with me being the seller and never receiving my item, having paid by bank transfer, long story...). I wrote to eBay, went to the police, both without any success, so in the end, after being furious and feeling utterly helpless for some time I just thought to myself: "in the end it will finally come back on this piece of sh*t who took my money" At least I have a clean conscience and can sleep at night. This guy probably can't.


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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 5:05pm 
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hatecase wrote:
You know, maybe this seems like a bad or quite small consolation, but in the end there's still KARMA. Something similar happened to me, too (fortunately with a much smaller sum of money that I lost) a while back on eBay (with me being the seller and never receiving my item, having paid by bank transfer, long story...). I wrote to eBay, went to the police, both without any success, so in the end, after being furious and feeling utterly helpless for some time I just thought to myself: "in the end it will finally come back on this piece of sh*t who took my money" At least I have a clean conscience and can sleep at night. This guy probably can't.


You underestimate the potential for scum to lack a conscience. This loser probably sleeps just fine.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 5:43pm 
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This is all garbage who ruin it for everybody else who know better. This lame will learn the hard way and that way is without mercy. So sorry to hear this Len and the forum is here for support. Plenty of good people here for that. Stay positive and you will prevail.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 31, 2018 5:54pm 
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exo-metal wrote:
This is all garbage who ruin it for everybody else who know better. This lame will learn the hard way and that way is without mercy. So sorry to hear this Len and the forum is here for support. Plenty of good people here for that. Stay positive and you will prevail.

Thanks brother. RT has always been my go to for getting support and advice on issues like this. There are some great people here who have been thru similar issues and situations, and the advice I have received here has been very helpful. I do appreciate everyone’s take and recommendations regarding my ordeal with this and will most certainly return the favor if I am able to contribute.
Len


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PostPosted: Wed, Aug 01, 2018 6:41am 
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Racerxrated wrote:
Ebay/Paypal aren't supposed to release the refund to the buyer until the amp is proven returned through tracking, or so I thought? How could they give the buyer his refund without first proving you received the amp back? This is the process last I knew....


So did paypal have an answer as to why they released these funds before the merchandise was returned to you? As this is stated that is the policy? Didn't see a reply on this as to why they released the funds before the tracking was confirmed u had received the amp back. They sent him money without proper procedure. Seems that should be unlawful and they are responsible if they indeed took money from your bank account before this was confirmed returned? What's the reply from paypal as to why they did this?


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PostPosted: Wed, Aug 01, 2018 8:38am 
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Beandust wrote:
Racerxrated wrote:
Ebay/Paypal aren't supposed to release the refund to the buyer until the amp is proven returned through tracking, or so I thought? How could they give the buyer his refund without first proving you received the amp back? This is the process last I knew....


So did paypal have an answer as to why they released these funds before the merchandise was returned to you? As this is stated that is the policy? Didn't see a reply on this as to why they released the funds before the tracking was confirmed u had received the amp back. They sent him money without proper procedure. Seems that should be unlawful and they are responsible if they indeed took money from your bank account before this was confirmed returned? What's the reply from paypal as to why they did this?


I think it was said above that the guy bought with paypal credit, so no money would have ever gone back to him regardless. It would have been applied to the balance of his paypal credit account. That's the issue here. Paypal pulled the money to cover their loan to the buyer who was obviously not going to pay them - therefore they'd stick the loss on the seller.

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PostPosted: Wed, Aug 01, 2018 9:41am 
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mhenson42 wrote:
Beandust wrote:
Racerxrated wrote:
Ebay/Paypal aren't supposed to release the refund to the buyer until the amp is proven returned through tracking, or so I thought? How could they give the buyer his refund without first proving you received the amp back? This is the process last I knew....


So did paypal have an answer as to why they released these funds before the merchandise was returned to you? As this is stated that is the policy? Didn't see a reply on this as to why they released the funds before the tracking was confirmed u had received the amp back. They sent him money without proper procedure. Seems that should be unlawful and they are responsible if they indeed took money from your bank account before this was confirmed returned? What's the reply from paypal as to why they did this?


I think it was said above that the guy bought with paypal credit, so no money would have ever gone back to him regardless. It would have been applied to the balance of his paypal credit account. That's the issue here. Paypal pulled the money to cover their loan to the buyer who was obviously not going to pay them - therefore they'd stick the loss on the seller.


Exactly correct. He used Paypal credit, and actually wouldn’t have had to make a payment for 4 months if the transaction had gone thru without any problem. When he opened a case against me with Paypal, my Paypal account went into a suspended status until a resolution to the case is made. I called and spoke with paypal and stated that I will refund the buyer in full on the condition that 1.) the buyer show proof that the merchandise has been returned with a tracking #, and 2.) that the buyer provide to me pictures of the amp from all sides(front, back, sides, top, and bottom). Paypal said ok, we will relate your info to the buyer and get back to you with a result. The next day, my bank account was debit’d the 850$ and the case closed.
Every call I have made to Paypal has resulted in the ‘run around’ on their end. I even had one lady tell me that most shippers don’t want the item back, as it is too much hassle and not worth it! My last conversation with them was a week ago that they were going to put in a request to re-open the case. And still nothing from them. I’ve grown tired of dealing with Paypal, getting all red faced over the phone with them over this time and again. Going the BOA chargeback route right now. We will see what happens. If this fails, I’ll have my Lawyer buddy send them a letter.


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