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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 04, 2019 2:44pm 
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Now you're twisting it up...

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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 04, 2019 10:18pm 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
I uploaded the clips to Soundcloud. Have a listen & weigh in. Which amp is which??

https://soundcloud.com/user-281594556/sets/mesa-mark-iib-vs-iic-ab



Amp #1 = MKIIC++
Amp #2 = MKIIB Coli

Were they run into to the same speakers and cab? IE both in to the Mesa 4X12 or run thru different speakers & cabs?


Yes, both into the Recto 4x12 Traditional cab. Both with my Horizon NT-II with a Het Set.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 04, 2019 10:21pm 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.


Well, there's an ass for every saddle. :) I have always preferred my DRG IIs and IIIs to the HRGs I've had. Well, Ok, I've only had the one HRG, but it was a C then a C+ then a C++ before I sold it so that's like 3 amps. Oh wait- I also had a JP2C, but it was the first of my Mark amps to go when the culling began.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 04, 2019 10:26pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
I enjoyed my HRG C++ more than the SRG for those same reasons. While I haven't played a DRG C+ I have owned 2 Simul IIIs, and preferred those without 34s so I'd imagine I'd still prefer the HRG over the DRG. More of an immediate attack as you describe. Mike B mentioned that the power section of the C+ Coli is very similar to the HRG C+ in the way it responds. Can't wait to get it back. Shipped to Mesa yesterday.


My favorites have always been my DRG IIs and IIIs but with all 6L6. 6CA7s can be OK in the Class A slots but I don't care for EL34s.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 04, 2019 10:40pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
I'm gonna go opposite of the Wiz here..

1. 2B Coli
2. C++


Well, Wizard FTW. :)

Amp 1, the IIC++ is darker. I tried to EQ this out a little but it never quite got there. It does have more gain, no doubt. The tone between the two is VERY close as the gain goes up, however the C++ also has a special feel that doesn't come through unless you're the player.

Amp 2, the "IIB+" is more articulate, and has better note definition. It has a little twang when you are just clean & crunchy that's pleasing, honestly better than the Cs I've had. It has more gain than either C+ I've had, but not as much as the ++. In terms of recording though if your right hand is on point it's got metal in spades.

The Coli power section is THE SHIT at any volume over bedroom. I have no doubt that this has a hand in why this B is so good. Technically as an OCD / gear freak the IIC+ Coli combo I do feel is the better setup, but the IIB Coli is still flat out amazing. That said I do not think the IIC+ version is $3X as good since the differences are more in the feel & less in the tone.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 04, 2019 11:40pm 
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GJgo wrote:
Racerxrated wrote:
I'm gonna go opposite of the Wiz here..

1. 2B Coli
2. C++


Well, Wizard FTW. :)

Amp 1, the IIC++ is darker. I tried to EQ this out a little but it never quite got there. It does have more gain, no doubt. The tone between the two is VERY close as the gain goes up, however the C++ also has a special feel that doesn't come through unless you're the player.

Amp 2, the "IIB+" is more articulate, and has better note definition. It has a little twang when you are just clean & crunchy that's pleasing, honestly better than the Cs I've had. It has more gain than either C+ I've had, but not as much as the ++. In terms of recording though if your right hand is on point it's got metal in spades.

The Coli power section is THE SHIT at any volume over bedroom. I have no doubt that this has a hand in why this B is so good. Technically as an OCD / gear freak the IIC+ Coli combo I do feel is the better setup, but the IIB Coli is still flat out amazing. That said I do not think the IIC+ version is $3X as good since the differences are more in the feel & less in the tone.

A bit surprised that you feel the B is more articulate. The B+ I had was tight, and had a ton of gain but the tone was more like a III on steroids. The HRG C++ I had at the same time was better in all aspects.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 4:24am 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod


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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:01am 
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I was always under the impression that pentode didn't come till the green stripe, which are all Simul & pentode. That's why it got the RMS bump.

My DRG 105 is decidedly more growly than my HRG X101 was. From reading other's experiences I feel the answer that is with these older amps, one is not just like the other. Whether that be how the components have aged, the tubes you're using, or just your personal perspective- for whatever reason some are just better than others. It's a joy to find a gem. :)


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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:18am 
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braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

But, as close as your III black stripe coli is, does it have that incredible feel? No other amp I've played has that, the C+ is unique in that regard. The strings feel alive under the fingers. Wizards have some of that, but not like the C+. No other Mesa product that I've played has even come close to replicating that C+ feel. And that is what I love best about the C+.

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1982 JCM 800 2204
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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:24am 
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GJgo wrote:
I was always under the impression that pentode didn't come till the green stripe, which are all Simul & pentode. That's why it got the RMS bump.

My DRG 105 is decidedly more growly than my HRG X101 was. From reading other's experiences I feel the answer that is with these older amps, one is not just like the other. Whether that be how the components have aged, the tubes you're using, or just your personal perspective- for whatever reason some are just better than others. It's a joy to find a gem. :)

And this is why the upgrade vs original debate is moot. Each amp is different, no 2 sound exactly alike even with the same configuration. Sure, the original DRG long heads are WORTH more, because the market dictates that Simul C+ are the most desirable. But I prefer the fast tracking HRG more. The 2C+ Coliseum that will be coming back to me soon will have even more of the HRG attributes, because of that monster power section. Can't wait.
:rock:

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1982 JCM 800 2204
HH M900
Lexicon PCM 80
Roland SDE 3000
79 1960A w/65s
74 1960A w/GBs
Mesa Standard V30 cab
Peavey Butcher Cab w/K85s
2009 Charvel USA Candy Plum SoCal
2008 Charvel USA Candy Tangerine SoCal
1985 Ibanez Destroyer


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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:39am 
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braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod


Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

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Last edited by Wizard of Ozz on Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:47am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:41am 
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GJgo wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.


Well, there's an ass for every saddle. :) I have always preferred my DRG IIs and IIIs to the HRGs I've had. Well, Ok, I've only had the one HRG, but it was a C then a C+ then a C++ before I sold it so that's like 3 amps. Oh wait- I also had a JP2C, but it was the first of my Mark amps to go when the culling began.


Indeed and agree. LOL. :lol: :LOL: :yes: :thumbsup:

Try some other HRGs if you get the chance... you might be surprised. ;)

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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 10:45am 
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GJgo wrote:
I was always under the impression that pentode didn't come till the green stripe, which are all Simul & pentode. That's why it got the RMS bump.

My DRG 105 is decidedly more growly than my HRG X101 was. From reading other's experiences I feel the answer that is with these older amps, one is not just like the other. Whether that be how the components have aged, the tubes you're using, or just your personal perspective- for whatever reason some are just better than others. It's a joy to find a gem. :)



No... there are some 100W HRG Blue stripes out there... I have one ;). 100W/60W switch in place of the Class A/Class AB Simul-Class switch. Basically the precursor to the Green stripe, and oddly enough, their production crossed in to early Green stripe production for whatever reason (probably to use up all the old parts), and the SRG 60W Blue stripe production continued well into and mid-way through Green stripe production.

I'm not a fan of the X101 OT at all. Too smooth = no fun. Maybe if I was playing fusion or jazz. But for metal, 100 OT all day.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 05, 2019 1:30pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

But, as close as your III black stripe coli is, does it have that incredible feel? No other amp I've played has that, the C+ is unique in that regard. The strings feel alive under the fingers. Wizards have some of that, but not like the C+. No other Mesa product that I've played has even come close to replicating that C+ feel. And that is what I love best about the C+.

That’s a very hard question to answer without you trying it, but I wanna say yes. I’ll have to compare again, but I don’t remember any noticeable difference in feel between the 2, but who knows, maybe you’d try it and find some subtle thing different in the feel that I don’t. It basically sounds exactly like my iic+, but with that extra horsepower, definition and bigness of the extra wattage and can switch between the + and ++ mode. I use the ++ mode more often and my iic+ obviously can’t do that. I honestly can’t imagine anyone hearing the 2 side by side and preferring my original HRG over my iii++ coli no stripe, but maybe there could be some slight feel thing in the HRG that I’m not as sensitive to, but I’d bet not. I’ll have to play em again. My Blue Stripe III++ Colis are different in sound and feel though to my iic+ HRG like I said before, but the things the blues have going for them is they’re a little tighter and I prefer there cleans; they’re more sparkly and Fendery. Best cleans I’ve heard in a channel switching amp by far. The only amps I have (and had) that I prefer for cleans are my 1964 Vibroverb (best cleans I’ve tried so far hands down) and Todd Sharp JOAT 45


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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod


Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

One thing I'd add is that there are no different transformers for the Coliseums, they all use the same PT/OT throughout the series. The Simul C+/III Coliseums are hard wired for the 2 middle sockets to take EL34s, they cannot take 6L6s. So a Simul Coli will be 150w instead of 180. Also, for European use they have to be re wired for 240. If you have a 2B Coli you can have Mike wire it for permanent Simul.

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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod


Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

So would my IIC+ HRG definitely be pentode then? It has also has the 100/60 switch on the back. And would my 2 blue stripe coli’s be triode since they’re simul-class and my no stripe pentode since it’s not simul?


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braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
braintheory wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
GJgo wrote:
Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.


See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod


Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.


So would my IIC+ HRG definitely be pentode then? It has also has the 100/60 switch on the back. And would my 2 blue stripe coli’s be triode since they’re simul-class and my no stripe pentode since it’s not simul?


Yes on all counts. The Colis would be Simuclass which is a triode/pentode mix. I prefer all 6L6GCs anyway which is another positive for the HRGs for me. You can also use 6L6GCs rated at 21 ma plate current or less in outer sockets of the DRG models in place of EL34s.

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Tonight I played the IIB+ Coli at (metal) band practice. I ran it through that 4x12 Recto cab.

It KILLS. It's EASILY the best Mark I've ever played in the band mix & that includes all 3 of my C+/++. MASSIVE girth. Metal AF! I actually had to be careful as it could easily DOMINATE all other instruments if I didn't watch out.

Racer is going to be a very happy boy when he gets his back.


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I have a Mark III purple coliseum, is it common to have a standard serial#?

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The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

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The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

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The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

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The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

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exo-metal wrote:
The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.


Joking aside, serial # close to 19000 instead of K xxx. I wonder if there is a lot of them without the K serial #? If so, there is maybe more of them on the market than we think.


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I've seen a lot if III Colis that didn't have a K serial. No big deal. Accounting wasn't exactly tight in those days..


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GJgo wrote:
I've seen a lot if III Colis that didn't have a K serial. No big deal. Accounting wasn't exactly tight in those days..

Thanks!

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K is for KILLS!!! Trust me, Coli's ain't your regular Mark series amp, and shouldn't be confused with their "lesser" brethren. They do hang with a C+ in the gain game, absolutely. It's a fact, I have proof. Mine is all stock and it rules, if it doesn't sell for a good penny, I will send it to Mike for the loop mod and maybe a donor C++ up grade.

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ImageMESA/Boogie Mark 2B Coliseum by John Bazzano, on Flickr

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Guys, as discussed I kept mine a IIB but had the loop mod, and then more recently Racerxrated had Mike upgrade his to a C+ with a donor C+ he found's RP10. I would LOVE to get them in the same room.

This Coli is the only Mark I've ever played with my band that owns its place in the mix like my Rectos do. Marked man is right, they are a totally different animal. It totally satisfies my vintage Mark needs to the extent that I'm selling my last C++. Probably replace it with a IV or a V just to have that different, more modern tone in a more giggable package.


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I see my 2b Coli head #K254 with the loop mod is a close "relative" of Markedman's #K256. Hello brother!

You are correct Gjgo, the loop mod is like an attenuator, that allows the 6 power tubes to be added to the preamp signal.


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GJgo wrote:
Guys, as discussed I kept mine a IIB but had the loop mod, and then more recently Racerxrated had Mike upgrade his to a C+ with a donor C+ he found's RP10. I would LOVE to get them in the same room.

This Coli is the only Mark I've ever played with my band that owns its place in the mix like my Rectos do. Marked man is right, they are a totally different animal. It totally satisfies my vintage Mark needs to the extent that I'm selling my last C++. Probably replace it with a IV or a V just to have that different, more modern tone in a more giggable package.

:rock:
Biggest difference, when I think of the 2B Coli vs the 2C+ Coli is the clarity...the feel is also amazing but the clarity is what puts it over the top, the one Mark to rule them all. I'd play my Triple, which is a great amp and then play the 2C+ Coli and it is like taking a blanket off the cab difference in the clarity dept. I can't play the 2C+ first, then plug in to the Triple...sounds muddy and smeared in comparison lol. The Triple is FAR from muddy and smeared, but it seems that way after first playing the Coli.

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Racer, since our Colis are close in serial, very late Bs, in excellent condition and both just worked by Mike.. Mine is also by far the most clear of any Mark I've had (about 10 of them). If we got them in the room my suspicion is that yours might have a touch more gain & feel (especially for leads), but I wouldn't expect a dramatic difference.

My Triple was also recently worked over by Mike. To me, it's an apples & oranges comparison. They both have a thing they do very well that the other one really doesn't do- and they both are the best at what they do.


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GJgo wrote:
Racer, since our Colis are close in serial, very late Bs, in excellent condition and both just worked by Mike.. Mine is also by far the most clear of any Mark I've had (about 10 of them). If we got them in the room my suspicion is that yours might have a touch more gain & feel (especially for leads), but I wouldn't expect a dramatic difference.

My Triple was also recently worked over by Mike. To me, it's an apples & oranges comparison. They both have a thing they do very well that the other one really doesn't do- and they both are the best at what they do.

True, they are different of course...but, many of us dial all our rigs to sound a certain way, which leads to similar sounding rigs. When I dial the triple in it is EQ'd very much like the C+ Coliseum, just like I'd dial in any of my Marshall type amps, and when I play both one after the other the C+ is just way better in every regard....and the Triple is no slouch. The Recto does have more low end but I get all the tight low end I need from the Coli. It really is the one Mesa amp to rule them all in my world at least.

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Wanted to follow up. I sold my last C+, the factory C+(+) DRG. Got good money for it. No regrets at all, even after slaving it into my Coli power section. I also experimented with boosting the "B+" and honestly I liked it a touch better than the DRG ++. All the gain & tonal structure with better bounce & clarity. (and WAY bigger balls) This is just one of those amps that defies conventional wisdom.

So now after being through 20+ Boogies I have the "B+" Coli, a new Five 35 (which rips BTW), the blackface Triple Recto & a MW Dual Recto. I couldn't be happier & am totally at peace with my gear.


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GJgo wrote:
Wanted to follow up. I sold my last C+, the factory C+(+) DRG. Got good money for it. No regrets at all, even after slaving it into my Coli power section. I also experimented with boosting the "B+" and honestly I liked it a touch better than the DRG ++. All the gain & tonal structure with better bounce & clarity. (and WAY bigger balls) This is just one of those amps that defies conventional wisdom.

So now after being through 20+ Boogies I have the "B+" Coli, a new Five 35 (which rips BTW), the blackface Triple Recto & a MW Dual Recto. I couldn't be happier & am totally at peace with my gear.

:rock:
That's great man..you definitely lucked out on that one. I can say with confidence that mine, now that it's a real deal C+ Coli, blows the doors off the 2 previous 2B Colis I owned..one of which had the B+ mod. It was cool and definitely tight, metal if you wanted but did NOT have the clarity of any C+ I've owned which has been 4 including my Coli. I'm gonna say that both of our 2Bs had some special sauce because of their late late serial numbers...yours was 1 away from a 2C and mine should have been a 2C based on the conventional serial number knowledge...mine was very tight before the mod as compared to the previous 2 I owned which needed a boost to be anywhere near tight. Maybe I could have just had the loop mod instead of the trouble of making it a C+? Who knows...but the loop mod ain't cheap and I have no regrets every day when I fire her up...I can't think of any amp I'd want at this point that would even tempt me to sell.
:rock:

Btw you're welcome... :D

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PostPosted: Fri, May 03, 2019 10:29pm 
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I have a feeling that in the room yours would be a little sweeter than mine in the leads, rhythm would be close, but they both clearly have a special clarity & bounce to them. The closest I've come to this clarity was my factory DR C+. It had good bounce, and nowhere near the tightness or the balls.

Racer is responsible for this Coli as well as my Triple, so I definitely owe him a debt of sonic gratitude. :D


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PostPosted: Sun, May 05, 2019 3:49am 
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So then we should expect some clips?

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PostPosted: Sun, May 05, 2019 8:57am 
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exo-metal wrote:
So then we should expect some clips?

Absolutely. I had Mesa make me a new head shell since I'm not a combo guy & I just got it mounted yesterday. Have a couple vids planned, should be able to do them in the next couple weeks.

I was just playing it this morning. I'd put this amp up against anything.


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PostPosted: Sat, May 18, 2019 6:21pm 
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Ok guys, here's a clip to check out. This is straight in to both amps, and straight out. Check it out. :)

https://youtu.be/nSr_EUq9C1Q


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PostPosted: Sun, May 19, 2019 1:29am 
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Mark iib for me sounds more organic and less compressed

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PostPosted: Sun, May 19, 2019 9:04am 
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sotosprince wrote:
Mark iib for me sounds more organic and less compressed

Agree with Soto....mine has that same vibe, with the bounce/clarity of the C+ board. Not to say it's 'better' than your loop mod...love to have both in the same room to compare. I can say though that there is truth to what you say about these late model 2Bs....they are more similar to a 2C than the earlier more vintage 2B Coliseums. I wonder if the same can be said for other late model 2B Marks? Tighter like a 2C with all versions? Be interesting to play a 2B with a serial in the 9800s or early 10000s and see if the same holds true.
Nice clip!
:rock:

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PostPosted: Sun, May 19, 2019 3:05pm 
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Clip 2- this time boosted. Understanding that YT compresses shit, in the room this pairing sounded CRUSHING and INSANE. The Coli boosted was easily on par with my DRG C++ in terms of gain. The C++ gain structure was a little smoother, but this B+ is more open & bouncy and has WAY more balls.

https://youtu.be/aY3e6-mfP70


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PostPosted: Mon, May 20, 2019 8:12am 
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Nice clip! I have never played a coliseum before. Massive. I think I prefer the rec (please don't stone me), BUT I would like to hear a lead, because I always like leads better on marks than recs.

I own a mkIVb and a Tremoverb and I think they are perfect counterparts.i have E34L's both of them at the moment IIRC.

Have you tried big bottles in a mesa?

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PostPosted: Mon, May 20, 2019 8:24pm 
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I could try some leads as long as you guys don't throw stones. LOL

I had a IVa and a Tverb, both awesome amps. With my current gear I don't regret selling them, though.

This triple came with big bottles in it, and it sounded huge. I spoke to Mike B. about it when I sent it in for service and he talked me out of them. Kind of a shame but I'm not a big risk taker with my old amps.


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PostPosted: Tue, May 21, 2019 4:37am 
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GJgo wrote:
I could try some leads as long as you guys don't throw stones. LOL

I had a IVa and a Tverb, both awesome amps. With my current gear I don't regret selling them, though.

This triple came with big bottles in it, and it sounded huge. I spoke to Mike B. about it when I sent it in for service and he talked me out of them. Kind of a shame but I'm not a big risk taker with my old amps.


Leads would catch my interest tbh. I am not a risk taker on old amps, but they did sound good. Lol. Your pair definitely outclasses the mkIVa but I like my tverb more than a common rec, mainly for cleans and verb.

Do you have any thoughts on the roadster? I see a local one for a grand but I don't have the cash to pick it up.

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PostPosted: Sat, May 25, 2019 4:59pm 
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Ok, here's a clip with leads. There's time stamps in the description, the Coli is at the end.

https://youtu.be/bk-GYCDGMLs


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PostPosted: Sat, May 25, 2019 5:14pm 
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GJgo wrote:
Ok, here's a clip with leads. There's time stamps in the description, the Coli is at the end.

https://youtu.be/bk-GYCDGMLs


Thanks for doing that. The coli leads are the best. Then the rev g trip.

I didn't particularly care for the mkv35 compared to the others.

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BUILDS: 5F1, 1978X 18 Watt.
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And a bunch of modded EPI VJR's.


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PostPosted: Sat, May 25, 2019 5:25pm 
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The Coli is just an amazing amp. It's nuts in the room! So huge, grinding & organic.

I figured out that if I use the limit board for volume instead of the loop mod volume, the sustain kicks up a big notch.


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