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PostPosted: Sat, Apr 13, 2019 5:05pm 
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Plank Cranker Wanker

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I have a cab loaded with 8ohm Mesa spec V30s and another cab loaded with 16ohm uk Celestion spec V30s. Both cabs are the same model. I like the low end tightness of the 16ohm speakers, but the tone is overall more boxy in the mids. I prefer the overall tone and balance of the 8ohm Mesa speakers, but it has a bit more low end bloom. I'm curious if any one has had 16ohm Mesa V30s in a 4x12 and compared them to either the 8ohm Mesa or 16 ohm celestion version? I'm wondering if they have more low end tightness without sounding boxy?


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 1:45am 
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I believe this is all the versions...

T3896 8 ohm Original Marshall Labeled

T3897 16 ohm Marshall labeled

T3903 8 ohm Celestion Labeled

T3904 16 ohm Celestion Labeled

T4335 8 ohm Mesa Labeled

T4416 16 ohm Mesa Labeled

T5321 16 ohm Marshall Mode Four

These are all slightly different sounding Vintage 30.

"When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticeably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper."

T3896 G12V 8 Ohm Vintage 30, Marshall label, 70w, 444 cone

T3897 G12V 16 Ohm Vintage 30, Marshall label, 70w, 444 cone

T3903 Vintage 30 8 Ohm cone stamp – 444 (standard specification)

T3904 Vintage 30 15 Ohm cone stamp – 444 (standard specification)

T4335 Vintage 30 8 Ohm cone stamp – 444 – Old original spec – now Mesa OEM

T4416 Vintage 30 16 Ohm cone stamp – 444 – Old original spec – now Mesa OEM

T5321 G12 Vintage MF 16 Ohm Custom designed for use in Marshall MF series cabs. G12-CV60.

"What I was referring to was the construction of the speaker itself. Taking a 16 ohm vintage 30 for example, if you simply decrease the speaker voice coil turns to make it an 8 ohm speaker, the chances that it would sound the same in all other respects are slim. By playing with other factors such as wire gauge and doping, they can me made to sound similar, but not identical.

So, it's important to know that when you are comparing cabs. Comparing two identical cabs operated by identical amplifiers, but one cab loaded with 8 ohm V30s and the amp set to 8 ohms vs one cab loaded with 16 ohm V30s and the amp set to 16 ohms, you are going to hear a pronounced difference in sound and performance. The differences will be partly the difference in electrical characteristics of the speakers and partly the resulting change in reactance of the amplifier.

Even so, I think you'll find that two 8 ohm speakers wired in series for a 16 ohm load will produce a deeper wider sound."

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Last edited by stephen sawall on Mon, Apr 15, 2019 11:44am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 10:10am 
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Is the 16 Ohm a factory MESA speaker or is it just a UK Vin 30?

I ask as the MESA Vin30's are made specifically for MESA and run at a different frequency which ends up being softer and less boxy. I love my MESA oversized cabinet and the tone but hated my Friedman 412 with standard Vin30's or any other cabinets with the non MESA Vin30s


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 10:23am 
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stephen sawall wrote:
I believe this is all the versions...

Oh, there's more. There's the Blackstar tweaked version that they have on the Series One Pro 4x12 cabs and the Bad Cat propietary speaker. They also had the G12-60 which MojoTone used to claim was a tweaked V30 as well.

I have a couple of 16 ohm Celestion Relic 30's which I believe are just re-branded Vintage 30MF's, but they do have a different TXXXX code.


Last edited by Rex Rocker on Mon, Apr 15, 2019 11:37am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 11:20am 
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It's a touchy topic cause as was mentioned there is a difference between how a 16 ohm speaker will sound and respond compared to the same speaker in 8 ohms. I'm not even sure how much it has to do with the amp and its transformers acting differently at different ohm settings.

In my experience , I prefer 8 ohms . Has been a more punchy and a bit clearer tone than 16ohms which to my ears is a bit more saturated , wet and loose. But , its subjective and could possibly be different depending on the amp .


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 11:52am 
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Rex Rocker wrote:
stephen sawall wrote:
I believe this is all the versions...

Oh, there's more. There's the Blackstar tweaked version that they have on the Series One Pro 4x12 cabs and the Bad Cat propietary speaker. They also had the G12-60 which MojoTone used to claim was a tweaked V30 as well.

I have a couple of 16 ohm Celestion Relic 30's which I believe are just re-branded Vintage 30MF's, but they do have a different TXXXX code.


Are these all Celestion ???
Do they have a different code number than the ones I posted above ?

I know there is lots of copies that are slightly different.

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 11:58am 
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rm5153 wrote:
Is the 16 Ohm a factory MESA speaker or is it just a UK Vin 30?

I ask as the MESA Vin30's are made specifically for MESA and run at a different frequency which ends up being softer and less boxy. I love my MESA oversized cabinet and the tone but hated my Friedman 412 with standard Vin30's or any other cabinets with the non MESA Vin30s


Yeah my op probably wasn’t that clear. My 16ohm v30s are UK, but they’re not the Mesa ones.

My cab is a vintage style Marshall cab, so probably not light years away from your Friedman and I’m not feeling the tone with the regular 16ohm v30s either. They’re tighter in the lows than the 8ohm Mesas, which is nice, but they also have some boxier mids I’m just not feeling.

From what i’ve gathered in reading and a/b’s i’ve heard, the 16ohm version of a speaker tends to be tighter. On paper, the Mesa 16ohm may be ideal for me to get something closer to the freq response of the 8ohm Mesa with a little less low end bloom. I’ve never heard the Mesa 16ohm speakers in a 4x12 in person or clips, though, so it’s just a guess.

So I guess what i’m getting at is whether anyone has put 16ohm Mesa v30s in a 4x12 and found they lack the boxiness of the regular uk/Chinese 16ohm v30 while being tighter than the Mesa 8ohm v30?


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 12:04pm 
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the4thlast1 wrote:
It's a touchy topic cause as was mentioned there is a difference between how a 16 ohm speaker will sound and respond compared to the same speaker in 8 ohms. I'm not even sure how much it has to do with the amp and its transformers acting differently at different ohm settings.

In my experience , I prefer 8 ohms . Has been a more punchy and a bit clearer tone than 16ohms which to my ears is a bit more saturated , wet and loose. But , its subjective and could possibly be different depending on the amp .

Exactly. It’s impossible to tell what exactly is contributing what when comparing in this situation. Obviously there is a difference in the frequency response between the Mesa and regular v30, but is some of the reason one sounds boxy and the other doesn’t partly the result of one being 16ohm and the other 8ohm :doh: :lol: :LOL: .


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 1:28pm 
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stephen sawall wrote:
Are these all Celestion ???
Do they have a different code number than the ones I posted above ?

I know there is lots of copies that are slightly different.

Yep. All Celestions. Not copies. Just other tweaks on the V30 formula (H magnet, 444 cone, 60-ish W power handling, etc.) by Celestion.

Image

Image

The Relic 30's I have sounds like Celestion's take on the "V30 minus the upper mid spike" thing. They're REALLY dark, IMO. Darker than the Mesa version even.
Image

This is the Bad Cat speaker:
Image

Image


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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 2:14pm 
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Thanks Rex Rocker.
I wonder if they have 16 and 8 ohm versions of each of these ?

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PostPosted: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 7:48pm 
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I got one more for ya :D

These seem to be pretty scarce. I bought the only 4x12 I've ever seen.

Dave Mustaine V30

And look :shocked:
He got his own T number as well :lol: :LOL:


Attachments:
DM V30 Pic 1.jpg
DM V30 Pic 1.jpg [ 503.09 KiB | Viewed 383 times ]
DM v30 Pic 2.jpg
DM v30 Pic 2.jpg [ 499.28 KiB | Viewed 383 times ]
DM V30 Pic 3.jpg
DM V30 Pic 3.jpg [ 358.92 KiB | Viewed 383 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 16, 2019 12:42am 
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Thanks fusedbrain

These are great...

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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 16, 2019 1:31am 
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fusedbrain wrote:
I got one more for ya :D

These seem to be pretty scarce. I bought the only 4x12 I've ever seen.

Dave Mustaine V30

And look :shocked:
He got his own T number as well :lol: :LOL:

Nice! I had read in one place they were regular v30s in the cab and in another place that they were a custom one, so I wasn’t sure. Do these sound different than regular v30s or is it an evh/heritage situation?


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PostPosted: Tue, Apr 16, 2019 1:52pm 
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The MESA V30s like I said earlier are custom made for MESA and the frequency they run at is way different than Chinese or UK V30s. BIG BIG Tonal difference trust me. The MESA made V30s from Celestion are much softer and warmer sounding and when A/B'd with Chinese made Celestion V30s the Chinese ones sound paper thin and ice picky. Go to the MESA website and you can buy directly from them the MESA issued Celestion V30s in both 8 and 16 Ohm. They are $149 each with free ship. To me there is a night and day difference where the MESA's sound so much more pleasing. Not a subtle difference but a huge one.

Trust me as I fought with this myself until I read that Celestion makes the V30s specific for MESA at a different cone frequency setting.


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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 7:34am 
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I have pairs of both 8 and 16ohm versions, and it is very hard to tell diferences. I agree with what is written above about warmer characteristic and not so icepicky like newer V30. Get them in Europe alone is almost miracle. For 150$ in US it is no brainer if You like V30 tone.


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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 9:10am 
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I was shocked as I normally am not a V30 guy until I picked up a MESA oversized on CL for a steal. It is my favorite cabinet now because the V30s are voiced differently then standard UK or Chinese V30s. Since I sold my Friedman cab, and am looking to off my Greenbacks, Creambacks, G12T-75s and Chinese V30s that I have in other cabinets.


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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 9:55am 
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I use the original Marshall and Mesa...all 16 ohm.

Would be into trying them all with identical cabs.

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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 1:21pm 
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bubucci wrote:
I have pairs of both 8 and 16ohm versions, and it is very hard to tell diferences. I agree with what is written above about warmer characteristic and not so icepicky like newer V30. Get them in Europe alone is almost miracle. For 150$ in US it is no brainer if You like V30 tone.

I may just bite the bullet and nab a quad of the 16ohm Mesa versions.


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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 1:23pm 
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fearhk213 wrote:
fusedbrain wrote:
I got one more for ya :D

These seem to be pretty scarce. I bought the only 4x12 I've ever seen.

Dave Mustaine V30

And look :shocked:
He got his own T number as well :lol: :LOL:

Nice! I had read in one place they were regular v30s in the cab and in another place that they were a custom one, so I wasn’t sure. Do these sound different than regular v30s or is it an evh/heritage situation?

I emailed Dr Decibel and he said he “thinks” it’s a regular v30 with a custom label.


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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 17, 2019 5:02pm 
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My understanding is that if it has a unique "T" number, then there's a specific manufacturing process for that speaker.

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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 19, 2019 12:45am 
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May have missed this earlier in thread - Does the stock OS cab come from Mesa loaded w/ 16ohm or 8ohm V30's ?
I understand the cab is wired 8ohm input.


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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 19, 2019 7:43am 
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talpa wrote:
May have missed this earlier in thread - Does the stock OS cab come from Mesa loaded w/ 16ohm or 8ohm V30's ?
I understand the cab is wired 8ohm input.

The 4x12 has 8ohm v30s. The 2x12 has 16ohm speakers wired for 8ohms.


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