Aggressive Bogner 20th Anniversary Shiva!?

P

PSGuitar

Active member
Suggestion on giving the 20th Anniversary (with 6CA7 power tubes), more aggression and cut?

Last night at rehearsal, I tried out the Shiva, and it disnt have the bigness, aggression or cut of my Mark V or BFG modded Dual Rectifier. Often I think it would be more ballsy if it were 100 watts or had the KT88s, but it could just be the nature of this amp.

So, for now, I use for more rock/hard rock projects, not metal.

Maybe the right EQ in the loop or OD, boost or Boost/OD/EQ into the front of the amp could help.
Something like a Mesa EQ pedal, J Rockett Rockaway Archer EQ/OD, Dulltone OCD v2, Friedman Buxom Boost, netc.

I not ruling out the idea of selling or trading my Shiva and getting somethong like a PRS Archon.
 
I plunked a matched pair of Genalex Gold-Lion KT88s into mine and it knocked it through the roof - potent AF!! Has more oomph on the nose than some 100W amps I've played - just a solid THUNK out the gates.

I think my preamp arrangement is GL-ECC83 in V1, then Svetlana 12AX7 or TAD7025S till the PI slot which has a SovtekLPS.

"Aggressive" is a definite understatement as to how this amp rips. I play it through a V30 RL Bogner 412. It's punishing. And I rarely if ever stick dirt of ODs in front of it - the boost function with the right combination of shift/mode will get you into blistering territory. If yours is feeling anemic, it may be tube related, bias related, but man, my 20thA Sheevs knocks teeth out.

Lemme know if you need any extra ideas.
Peace
Unkle Mo
 
Thanks man! I may need to make changes.
I tried my Suhr Koko Boost and it helped for aggression.

I have the 20th Shiva with EL34s. I actually have 6CA7s in it which helped. It sounds bigger and gutsier with these over EL34s.
I am tempted to modify it or convert it to KT88. I have to research how that is done. Do you lose the nice singing solo tones with the KT88s?

Right now preamp tubes are all JJ ECC83 which are my go to for my Mesa BFG Dual Rec and Mark V, also the Shiva. Thinking, since the Shiva can be polite, I may need different preamp tubes and/or modify it to KT88 spec.
Current power tubes - JJ 6CA7 - made the amp much bigger and gutsier than E34Ls. Bias = 35.

I know some guys who have the Shiva, but use their more aggressive amps for high gain. For example, the PRS Archon 100.
I have a friend with the 20th Shiva, but it didn't work for his current metal project, and ended up running the Archon.

I have tried different preamp tubes but never huge differences in a band context. Maybe I use that Koko Boost for the high gain stuff. It makes a difference. I keep the amp on Vintage mode and boost.
 
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PSGuitar said:
Thanks man! I may need to make changes.
I tried my Suhr Koko Boost and it helped for aggression.

I have the 20th Shiva with EL34s. I actually have 6CA7s in it which helped. It sounds bigger and gutsier with these over EL34s.
I am tempted to modify it or convert it to KT88. I have to research how that is done. Do you lose the nice singing solo tones with the KT88s?

Right now preamp tubes are all JJ ECC83 which are my go to for my Mesa BFG Dual Rec and Mark V, also the Shiva. Thinking, since the Shiva can be polite, I may need different preamp tubes and/or modify it to KT88 spec.
Current power tubes - JJ 6CA7 - made the amp much bigger and gutsier than E34Ls. Bias = 35.

I know some guys who have the Shiva, but use their more aggressive amps for high gain. For example, the PRS Archon 100.
I have a friend with the 20th Shiva, but it didn't work for his current metal project, and ended up running the Archon.

I have tried different preamp tubes but never huge differences in a band context. Maybe I use that Koko Boost for the high gain stuff. It makes a difference. I keep the amp on Vintage mode and boost.
Click to expand...
I might be missing something here - but the 20thAnni Shiva is a dual-bottle amp, comes stock with 2 KT88 JJs, controls on faceplace on the bottom; the original Shiva is an EL34/KT77 based amp, controls on faceplate on top.

What Shiva do you have??? I only seem surprised cuz no 20thA Shiva should be running EL34 like tubes, it's WAY anemic a powertube for the circuit, you need big-bottle power tubes man; unless it's a stock Shiva that's somehow been converted to appear or act like a 20th, which I've seen one floating about these parts quite some time ago - lemme know - and do you have the head or the combo - details - lets have 'em!
Mine is bronco tolex but this is the current model out there:
 

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Just throw an eq in the loop. You're not gonna get that big of a change with tubes. It's a GREAT amp, but wouldn't be my first pick for metal...not even close. I ran an MXR 10 band in the loop of the one I had, it had KT88, and it's still just not the best metal amp. Wasn't bad, but much better amps up to that task IMO. I swapped back and forth between 6550s and KT88s and the difference was marginal. Not gonna turn it into an amp it's not.
 
Ventura said:
I might be missing something here - but the 20thAnni Shiva is a dual-bottle amp, comes stock with 2 KT88 JJs, controls on faceplace on the bottom; the original Shiva is an EL34/KT77 based amp, controls on faceplate on top.

What Shiva do you have??? I only seem surprised cuz no 20thA Shiva should be running EL34 like tubes, it's WAY anemic a powertube for the circuit, you need big-bottle power tubes man; unless it's a stock Shiva that's somehow been converted to appear or act like a 20th, which I've seen one floating about these parts quite some time ago - lemme know - and do you have the head or the combo - details - lets have 'em!
Mine is bronco tolex but this is the current model out there:
Click to expand...
Mine is a 20th Anniversary with EL34 tubes. I ordered direct from Bogner. The amp was originally designed with EL34s for the 20th Anniversary. Then they adjusted a few resistors and popped in KT88s. When you order a 20th Anniversary, you can choose KT88 or EL34. I would just have to do a resistor conversion to change it back to KT88.
But yes mine is a 20th with EL34s.

I've played 20th anniversary Shivas with 88s. It's different but wasn't drastic. I prefer the 6CA7. Thicker mids and sings better.

I can easily convert it back to 88s. Rockstar Nick on here and other guys converted their 20th to EL34 and preferred it. Iay try 88s again. Disnt like the stiffness though.

Favoeriye KT88 amp was the Sigx.
 
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Agree on tubes. I even tried Chinese preamp tubes and it was slightly brighter and harsher. Better with JJs.
Power tubes have it more balls - JJ 6CA7.

I use it for rock and grunge.
Using my Mark V and Dual Rec now for metal.

Agreed, tubes make minor changes.
Preamp tubes yes, but JJs added girth.

Easier to use EQ, speakers and amp EQ to get more cut.
 
Well, my 20thA loaded stock with 88s has knocked a lot of heavyweight "high-gainers" off the table - surprisingly for those other bigger iron, more tubes amps for sure. I'm also of the mind (and practise) that more gain doesn't always translate to "heavier brootz". It's all in the attack, clarity, and punch. Some amps compress too much with the gain, they get smeared out, lose their focus; I found the exact opposite of this with the 20thA Sheevs - it slays, and stays tight and ballsy. The 88s can sound a bit sharp to the ear at lower volumes, but when cranked, they're like a sledgehammer - especially given the diminuitive size of the 20thA Sheevs. I don't use pedals for OD/dirt/boost or the like in front either - I find the 20th Sheevs stands out best on its own. And again, it's been goddamn punishing in the more heavier realms of the music I've played.

YMMV, and obviously does... To each, their own ears 🤩
Mojo
 
Ventura said:
Well, my 20thA loaded stock with 88s has knocked a lot of heavyweight "high-gainers" off the table - surprisingly for those other bigger iron, more tubes amps for sure. I'm also of the mind (and practise) that more gain doesn't always translate to "heavier brootz". It's all in the attack, clarity, and punch. Some amps compress too much with the gain, they get smeared out, lose their focus; I found the exact opposite of this with the 20thA Sheevs - it slays, and stays tight and ballsy. The 88s can sound a bit sharp to the ear at lower volumes, but when cranked, they're like a sledgehammer - especially given the diminuitive size of the 20thA Sheevs. I don't use pedals for OD/dirt/boost or the like in front either - I find the 20th Sheevs stands out best on its own. And again, it's been goddamn punishing in the more heavier realms of the music I've played.

YMMV, and obviously does... To each, their own ears 🤩
Mojo
Click to expand...

Its definitely a beast and has a very unique growl to it that I've yet to hear in any other amp. And you're right, at volume it's super punchy, articulate with a lot of grind. I just thing it has a bit too much sag for me and the heavier stuff I play. Other amps I had just had more girth and low end too.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
Just throw an eq in the loop. You're not gonna get that big of a change with tubes. It's a GREAT amp, but wouldn't be my first pick for metal...not even close. I ran an MXR 10 band in the loop of the one I had, it had KT88, and it's still just not the best metal amp. Wasn't bad, but much better amps up to that task IMO. I swapped back and forth between 6550s and KT88s and the difference was marginal. Not gonna turn it into an amp it's not.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed guys! I have used EL34s, E34Ls and now 6CA7s which I love. I even tried Ruby tubes, Mesa tubes, Shuguang over the JJ, and minor differences. I love the amp for what it is, and I'll use it for that! It's not gonna do like a PRS Archon, etc....
I remember playing a KT88 Shiva next to a Fryette SigX and the SigX was so much better at metal and aggressive tones. I have been using my Mark V and modified Dual Rec for now! :)
I may look into having my 20th Shiva converted back to KT88.
 
Ventura said:
Well, my 20thA loaded stock with 88s has knocked a lot of heavyweight "high-gainers" off the table - surprisingly for those other bigger iron, more tubes amps for sure. I'm also of the mind (and practise) that more gain doesn't always translate to "heavier brootz". It's all in the attack, clarity, and punch. Some amps compress too much with the gain, they get smeared out, lose their focus; I found the exact opposite of this with the 20thA Sheevs - it slays, and stays tight and ballsy. The 88s can sound a bit sharp to the ear at lower volumes, but when cranked, they're like a sledgehammer - especially given the diminuitive size of the 20thA Sheevs. I don't use pedals for OD/dirt/boost or the like in front either - I find the 20th Sheevs stands out best on its own. And again, it's been goddamn punishing in the more heavier realms of the music I've played.

YMMV, and obviously does... To each, their own ears 🤩
Mojo
Click to expand...
I completely agree! More gain is not the answer.
My mark V and DR just do the aggressive high gain tones we need right now. My Shiva sounded too polite, I guess is the best way to describe.
I am tempted to try the KT88s in my amp, but it will need a conversion. KT88s can be hi-fi sounding which is an issue.
 
Is the 20th Anv. Shiva vastly different to the regular old one? Tonally, not features.

Some local guy is selling an older one and I'm somewhat interested, but have always been intrigued by the Aniv, of which I've never seen a local one.
 
I prefer the 20th. I find it more versatile and has more guys and grunt.
You can also switch between KT88 and EL34 with the help of a tech.
 
If your style of music is metal and you're wanting aggressive tone and youre not able to get it out of your 20th Shiva??? IDK, something doesn't add up. Perhaps your idea of aggression is fizz, can-o-bees type tone from your amp?? Yeah the Bogner aint going to help you out in the dept.
 
So this guy sort of points out the issues I have. The 20th just lacks aggression. I talked to Bogner when I ordered thr amp and they said it's more for classic rock which is what I was doing at the time.
So I can keep it for my lighter rock stuff..

I had a jam session and I couldn't keep up with the Marshalls or a Splawn.
Maybe I'll try some more aggressive tubes or another boost

Ugh, hate can of bees, amps... Lol.

 
Looks like I am selling or trading my Shiva for something that cuts better for me and is more aggressive. I may try one last thing, a good EQ. But it seems best to go with an amp that gets what I need from its base tone. Maybe look at a used Diezel next or PRS Archon.
 
PSGuitar said:
Looks like I am selling or trading my Shiva for something that cuts better for me and is more aggressive. I may try one last thing, a good EQ. But it seems best to go with an amp that gets what I need from its base tone. Maybe look at a used Diezel next or PRS Archon.
Click to expand...
Diezel are madness good. But they're a love/hate thing - try before you buy.

Archon is a great sounding amp, but make no mistake, it's a MIC amp and shouldn't cost as much as it does.

Good luck, sorry the Sheevs didn't work out for ya. We each have our own ears and there's no right or wrong - just a sometimes arduous and long road ahead to finding ones perfect or preferred tone. Like I said, good luck and keep us posted.

Unkle Mo
 
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