Diezel VH4 - How many versions and which is 'best'?

M

mesa4x12er

Active member
So one of the few big time high gain heads I've never personally owned is the VH4. I really want to get one but after reading tons of posts seems there are many different versions and many different opinions about what is different between them and which is best. Its pretty difficult to sift through and since its all over the place. Does anyone have the cliffs notes for what is what?

As a side note I obsess over these kinds of things which is why I've owned 11 rectifiers. I'd like to just buy one and know I did it right the first time. Thanks ya'll!
 
If you want heavy the vh2 channel 2 is my favorite. I own both vh4 and vh2 . I got vh2 on trade to sell . But the new modern ch2 on vh2 has blown me away . Probably selling the vh4 because of it . Vh4 is great still but that new channel is fucking great . But I have a 2017 vh4 . It’s great but idk how different is from the past
 
Techdeth said:
If you want heavy the vh2 channel 2 is my favorite. I own both vh4 and vh2 . I got vh2 on trade to sell . But the new modern ch2 on vh2 has blown me away . Probably selling the vh4 because of it . Vh4 is great still but that new channel is fucking great . But I have a 2017 vh4 . It’s great but idk how different is from the past
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Thanks for that. I was kind of looking at those too. What blew you away about it? How is it different? Thanks dude!
 
mesa4x12er said:
Thanks for that. I was kind of looking at those too. What blew you away about it? How is it different? Thanks dude!
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The new hi gain feels like a perfect combo of ch3 and 4 on the vh4 . I always wanted more on 3 but ch4 it lost some clarity and punch . It really fells like they took 3 and gave it abit of 4 .im really liking it . I was actually shocked and wanted to like bu4 better : but it won me out . If you watch the vh2 on the DIEZEL YouTube they explain how they used ch3 but modernized it
 
Techdeth said:
The new hi gain feels like a perfect combo of ch3 and 4 on the vh4 . I always wanted more on 3 but ch4 it lost some clarity and punch . It really fells like they took 3 and gave it abit of 4 .im really liking it . I was actually shocked and wanted to like bu4 better : but it won me out . If you watch the vh2 on the DIEZEL YouTube they explain how they used ch3 but modernized it
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Ugh, sounds like I'm going to need to get my hands on both haha. I want to say thanks for the help but I'm pretty sure you just cost me a lot of money!
 
mesa4x12er said:
Ugh, sounds like I'm going to need to get my hands on both haha. I want to say thanks for the help but I'm pretty sure you just cost me a lot of money!
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What style are playing . That can help me lead you to which one you need
 
There have been many “revisions” to the VH4, but only a few are well known. Peter uses the same PCB since version 1 and just tweaks the values to follow musical trends or what guitarists ask for. On the official website for the VH4 it says something like “built the same way since 1991.” This is misleading.

I have a 2022 VH4 right now that is dry (feel-wise), has lots of gain on tap, is fairly compressed and dark until you crank the treble and presence. It pairs best with a front-loaded cab to add additional high frequencies and bring out the nice crunchy distortion the VH4 has.

My friend @hellzington has a 2004-ish VH4 that sounds like a completely different amp. It has more midrange, leaner in the bass, less compression, more saturated feel but less gain. We compared the two directly.

His amp could be modded, but there’s no way to tell. There is no single VH4 circuit. It’s changed a lot over the years.

I’ve also heard earlier VH4s that have overwhelming amounts of bass and are very dark.

The VH2 is its own beast. It’s a mix between a Diezel Paul and a VH4, taking the clean channel from the Paul and a modified version of the VH4’s channel 3.

So it depends on what you’re looking for. I’d recommend the newer VH4s to people into more modern music and tight amps and earlier VH4s to people who like the classic stuff with a more open sound (more Marshallish). VH2s to guys who don’t need 4 channels.
 
pipboy90 said:
There have been many “revisions” to the VH4, but only a few are well known. Peter uses the same PCB since version 1 and just tweaks the values to follow musical trends or what guitarists ask for. On the official website for the VH4 it says something like “built the same way since 1991.” This is misleading.

I have a 2022 VH4 right now that is dry (feel-wise), has lots of gain on tap, is fairly compressed and dark until you crank the treble and presence. It pairs best with a front-loaded cab to add additional high frequencies and bring out the nice crunchy distortion the VH4 has.

My friend @hellzington has a 2004-ish VH4 that sounds like a completely different amp. It has more midrange, leaner in the bass, less compression, more saturated feel but less gain. We compared the two directly.

His amp could be modded, but there’s no way to tell. There is no single VH4 circuit. It’s changed a lot over the years.

I’ve also heard earlier VH4s that have overwhelming amounts of bass and are very dark.

The VH2 is its own beast. It’s a mix between a Diezel Paul and a VH4, taking the clean channel from the Paul and a modified version of the VH4’s channel 3.

So it depends on what you’re looking for. I’d recommend the newer VH4s to people into more modern music and tight amps and earlier VH4s to people who like the classic stuff with a more open sound (more Marshallish). VH2s to guys who don’t need 4 channels.
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I really appreciate all of that. I wonder where that line is where it goes from earlier to newer in terms of those character traits you mentioned.
 
I higher prefer my Herberts to my vh4 I must say as well . Especially for heavy stuff , but it’s great for everything which must be said . The cleans are my favorite
 
I have a 2001 silverface VH4, and I do agree that channel 4 is more compressed than channel 3, and channel 3 quite often feels a bit undergained to me. But then when I turn the amp up loud, that perception shifts slightly and channel 3 feels perfectly fine with the gain set to 3 o'clock.

I feel like the VH4 is one of those amps where if you dial it in with your eyes, and how you'd dial in other amps, you're gonna come away feeling a bit 'meh' about it, in all honesty.

Don't be afraid to crank mids, treble, and presence a lot higher than you might on say a Marshall JVM or a Dual Rectifier.

I love my VH4 and I don't think anything would make me part with it, other than perhaps another Diezel.

I also have a Hagen and D-Moll. Those are much more "modern" sounding out of the gate to me.
 
pipboy90 said:
There have been many “revisions” to the VH4, but only a few are well known. Peter uses the same PCB since version 1 and just tweaks the values to follow musical trends or what guitarists ask for. On the official website for the VH4 it says something like “built the same way since 1991.” This is misleading.

I have a 2022 VH4 right now that is dry (feel-wise), has lots of gain on tap, is fairly compressed and dark until you crank the treble and presence. It pairs best with a front-loaded cab to add additional high frequencies and bring out the nice crunchy distortion the VH4 has.

My friend @hellzington has a 2004-ish VH4 that sounds like a completely different amp. It has more midrange, leaner in the bass, less compression, more saturated feel but less gain. We compared the two directly.

His amp could be modded, but there’s no way to tell. There is no single VH4 circuit. It’s changed a lot over the years.

I’ve also heard earlier VH4s that have overwhelming amounts of bass and are very dark.

The VH2 is its own beast. It’s a mix between a Diezel Paul and a VH4, taking the clean channel from the Paul and a modified version of the VH4’s channel 3.

So it depends on what you’re looking for. I’d recommend the newer VH4s to people into more modern music and tight amps and earlier VH4s to people who like the classic stuff with a more open sound (more Marshallish). VH2s to guys who don’t need 4 channels.
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This, haha.

This 2004 VH4 is my third VH4. I've also owned a 2010 and a 2022. This 2004 VH4 sounds so incredibly different from the other two I had, I can't even explain it. Way less compressed and fizzy than my 2010 and dare I say more "vintage" and "raw" than my 2022, which sounded good but was very polished and modern.

This 2004 is darker than those two, with less compression and less gain globally (except on Channel 2, interestingly, which has more gain than I remember either of the other two having). The lowered global gain makes the sweep of the gain knobs much more useable from 1-10. Sure, the clean channel on the 2004 is not as pristine and shimmering as the other two, but the amp is overall much more organic and punchy, with a more pleasant top end. It has more pleasant harmonic content and the frequencies coming out of the amp are more balanced and classic. The under-the-finger feel is better and the amp responds more naturally. It just has more personality. It's more fun to play and more satisfying to your ear. THIS is the VH4 tone I had been chasing. Crazy how they can all be so different.

A forum member who has known Peter Diezel since 1998 told me that up until 2006, all VH4s were pretty much the same as the old "Blueface" circuit from the mid-to-late 90s. But in the mid-2000's, Peter got many requests to make the VH4 brighter and sharper, with more gain and cut. Players wanted more gain and articulation for "chug"/metal/down-tuned sounds. So Peter made an interesting modification to the amp. Adding a certain resistor to the circuit it would increase the gain, compression, brightness, and sizzle. The lower the value, the more gain, compression, brightness, and sizzle.

In 2007, VH4's started coming stock with these resistors. This is why the post-2007 VH4's all sound the way they do, and it's the way the market was trending at that time. If you recall, Mesa Boogie made similar changes to the 3-Channel Rectifiers in the 2000's to give them more gain, cut, and sizzle. (People now call them "fizzy" but at the time, people liked them.) Peter kept the resistors in the amps and continued adjusting the circuit to players' ears over the years, and as a result the VH4 continued to get more polished and produced as the years went on. I don't know what value they are using in current production VH4's.

When anyone asks about the VH4, my question is always, "Which VH4?" because they can be very different.

I have clips of my 2004 against @pipboy90 's 2022 (we left the mic's running when we were comparing the two). I'll try and get that video finished this week so you can check it out yourself.
 
I have owned a 2005 Diezel VH4, and current have a 2022 model. They are definitely different, without a doubt. The 2022 has more gain across channels 2, 3 and 4...Is brighter with slightly less compression.
 
angelspade said:
I have owned a 2005 Diezel VH4, and current have a 2022 model. They are definitely different, without a doubt. The 2022 has more gain across channels 2, 3 and 4...Is brighter with slightly less compression.
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This is exactly my experience comparing the old VH4's with the modern ones....which seems to be the exact opposite of Hellzington's experience.

I owned a 2001 VH4 and have played a 2022 model a fair bit. The 2022 is brighter overall, a bit tighter and a bit more open. Channel 2 can overlap channel 3, whereas with my old 2001 model, it didn't go past "AC/DC" gain levels.

I never found my old VH4 old script to be a more magical and organic amp by any means. It was a difficult amp to dial in and actually made me shy away from Diezel for a while. I like the modern VH4's much better.
 
VHTStark said:
This is exactly my experience comparing the old VH4's with the modern ones....which seems to be the exact opposite of Hellzington's experience.

I owned a 2001 VH4 and have played a 2022 model a fair bit. The 2022 is brighter overall, a bit tighter and a bit more open. Channel 2 can overlap channel 3, whereas with my old 2001 model, it didn't go past "AC/DC" gain levels.

I never found my old VH4 old script to be a more magical and organic amp by any means. It was a difficult amp to dial in and actually made me shy away from Diezel for a while. I like the modern VH4's much better.
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Absolutely...And two other things. In regard your channel 2 comments, substantive improvements here. On the 2022 version, I can get into AC/DC territory with the gain at noon and up to 80's metal level aggression (like a modded 800) with the gain pushed to 3 o'clock. Additionally, channel 4 is now suitable for metal rhythm playing, whereas on the older models it was really only suitable for leads. Others disagree, but I strongly favor the latest revisions.
 
Vh2 channel 2 is the most agressive channel out of all as well , if you want the most agressive that’s it . Just mean af
 
hellzington said:
This, haha.

This 2004 VH4 is my third VH4. I've also owned a 2010 and a 2022. This 2004 VH4 sounds so incredibly different from the other two I had, I can't even explain it. Way less compressed and fizzy than my 2010 and dare I say more "vintage" and "raw" than my 2022, which sounded good but was very polished and modern.

This 2004 is darker than those two, with less compression and less gain globally (except on Channel 2, interestingly, which has more gain than I remember either of the other two having). The lowered global gain makes the sweep of the gain knobs much more useable from 1-10. Sure, the clean channel on the 2004 is not as pristine and shimmering as the other two, but the amp is overall much more organic and punchy, with a more pleasant top end. It has more pleasant harmonic content and the frequencies coming out of the amp are more balanced and classic. The under-the-finger feel is better and the amp responds more naturally. It just has more personality. It's more fun to play and more satisfying to your ear. THIS is the VH4 tone I had been chasing. Crazy how they can all be so different.

A forum member who has known Peter Diezel since 1998 told me that up until 2006, all VH4s were pretty much the same as the old "Blueface" circuit from the mid-to-late 90s. But in the mid-2000's, Peter got many requests to make the VH4 brighter and sharper, with more gain and cut. Players wanted more gain and articulation for "chug"/metal/down-tuned sounds. So Peter made an interesting modification to the amp. Adding a certain resistor to the circuit it would increase the gain, compression, brightness, and sizzle. The lower the value, the more gain, compression, brightness, and sizzle.

In 2007, VH4's started coming stock with these resistors. This is why the post-2007 VH4's all sound the way they do, and it's the way the market was trending at that time. If you recall, Mesa Boogie made similar changes to the 3-Channel Rectifiers in the 2000's to give them more gain, cut, and sizzle. (People now call them "fizzy" but at the time, people liked them.) Peter kept the resistors in the amps and continued adjusting the circuit to players' ears over the years, and as a result the VH4 continued to get more polished and produced as the years went on. I don't know what value they are using in current production VH4's.

When anyone asks about the VH4, my question is always, "Which VH4?" because they can be very different.

I have clips of my 2004 against @pipboy90 's 2022 (we left the mic's running when we were comparing the two). I'll try and get that video finished this week so you can check it out yourself.
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I was searching on this forum for a long time people like you. I've ever wanted a VH4 and finally last year I bought one. I've ever been a Mesa fan/user and I didn't expect to play my so desired VH4 and be disappointed at first. But as soon as I sold my old cab and learnt how to dial in, I'm loving my amp every day more. If you want/can and feel comfortable, I'd like to compare my VH4 (which is a 2015 but some components of old VH4 from the factory) to your 2004. If you feel comfortable to pull out the chassis and take some pictures of the value (i have lots of them that I've sent to Peter last year). We can post some pictures here or I can send you some detailed pics of my board by e-mail. I don't want to be too specific here but there are 4 spots to look at. Thanks in advance, hope you can help me.
 
These are tough questions because who's actually played a bunch in real time, recorded them through the same gear, playing the same thing music and then compared? Not many do this, it's usually you heard the amp years ago or months ago, then you're hearing a different one today and trying to remember the past tone and characteristics. That method is not exactly how you'd answer this question if you were making a record where you'd bring them all in and keep the variables the same, then compare back to back in real time. This is the answer you're looking for but aren't probably going to get.

Even after all that, who's got what tubes in them, age, biased etc. A lot of variables that make this really hard.

These are ALL incredible amps, fresh tubes biased and through a great cab = WIN.
Once you find the tubes you like, the cab and speakers you like etc you'll find probably any VH4 will destroy for you.
 
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