Diezel VH4 Suggestions

QueenCityGuitars

QueenCityGuitars

New member
I posted this paragraph in my "Diezel VH4 Tubes" tread but I think it should have its own. Any suggestion from VH4 owners would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I recently bought a 2009 VH4 and a 2009 front-loaded Diezel 4x12 cabinet loaded with Celestion G12K100s. I love the features on the VH4 (gain and volume controls for each channel as well as a master volume to turn the whole amp up and down after setting each channel's volume). I've owned a lot of amps over the years (SLO 100, Ecstasy, Uberschall, Dual Rec, Bad Cat, Marshall, etc) and I like the features on this amp hands down. That being said, I A/Bed the VH4 with my pre-500 Dual Rec (channel 3 on the VH4 with the red channel on the DR) and was surprised by the outcome. Both amps sound great, but when I played a chord on the VH4 I couldn't hear each note nearly as well. Granted, I preferred the VH4's low-end, and it's super quiet for being such a high-gain amp, but this VH4 seems so compressed that each note gets lost in the distortion (or possibly the compression). The amp currently has a hodgepodge of pre-amp tubes in it (a mix of Rubys and Groove Tubes) and I believe it has Ruby EL34s in it (the amp isn't currently in front of me so I cannot give the tube specifics right now). I was thinking a change of tubes may do the amp justice even though these are relatively new ones. I was also thinking about putting two Celestion V30s in the cabinet in an X-pattern with the G12K100s. Any thoughts from other VH4 owners?
 
I felt the same about the compression/sizzle. I changed one resistor in the preamp per Papa's instruction, kept all the stock preamp tubes but the JJ ECC83 in the V1
and went with SED 6550's. It's the best sounding VH4 I have ever heard.
 
MARK2C - Thanks a lot for the information; I appreciate it. Would you mind emailing me the resistor information and how to do it? I've only ever changed tubes in an amp so this may be a challenge! :doh: Is it possible my 2009 VH4 could already have this resistor? I currently have EL34s in the amp, so if I go with 6550s I'll need to rebias it. :scared: Also, what are your thoughts on putting in two Vintage 30s with two of the current G12K100s?
 
For 2007 and up models only.

Anyone who is interested, PM me your e-mail and lets see if Papa Diezel approves
and we can do it off the forum.
 
I've been through many tubes and 6550s have given the best note definition of any tube I've tried with the VH4. I have Svetlana 6550s right now in there and they sound great. Others have said good things about the SEDs.

For cleans, 6L6s win. I never really liked EL34s in the VH4 except for the low-mid growl on ch3 and ch4. Cleans are much more dead and dull with EL34s though. But 6550s give a clean that approaches 6L6s and a distortion that is more defined on ch3 and ch4.

Yup, you'll have to rebias it! But it's not that bad.. Post here with any questions. :thumbsup:
 
MARK2C":1msfjufh said:
I felt the same about the compression/sizzle. I changed one resistor in the preamp per Papa's instruction, kept all the stock preamp tubes but the JJ ECC83 in the V1
and went with SED 6550's. It's the best sounding VH4 I have ever heard.
Click to expand...

All true: the mod and SED 6550. ;)
 
So for a while now everybody has been saying how much better the post 2007 VH4 sounds over the pre 2007. Does the mod take the amp back to pre 2007 specs? It seems like a lot of folks have been complaining about this "sizzle" I have a 2005 model and it does not have any sizzle to it at all, nor have I ever lacked any clarity in my sound.I have had countless soundguys compliment my tone and tell me how much clarity there is, even with a good dose of gain being used. When I first bought the amp I really had to practice to get my chops up to par since there was no saturation to hide behind with the VH4, you can hear everything, including every mistake.
 
smdb":2n9v97oe said:
So for a while now everybody has been saying how much better the post 2007 VH4 sounds over the pre 2007. Does the mod take the amp back to pre 2007 specs? It seems like a lot of folks have been complaining about this "sizzle" I have a 2005 model and it does not have any sizzle to it at all, nor have I ever lacked any clarity in my sound, I have had countless soundguys compliment my tone and tell me how much clarity there is, even with a good dose of gain being used. When I first bought the amp I really had to practice to get my chops up to par since there was no saturation to hide behind with the VH4, you can hear everything, including every mistake.
Click to expand...

That's the sad thing. The VH4 does not sound better, just different. Depending on how much compression you want to lose, the mod
can get you closer to the Classic VH4 but not dead on. The main effect is on Ch. 3 and 4. The 2007+ amps have an extra gear in the gain department
on 2-4. The Classic channel 3 will go down in history as one of the best, but I am sure many people wanted more gain than it could give. With the gain
maxed I know I always wanted another 10 dB more. Channel 4 is almost the same liquid, smooth but with a little more tooth.
 
MARK2C":pdw5m9t2 said:
smdb":pdw5m9t2 said:
So for a while now everybody has been saying how much better the post 2007 VH4 sounds over the pre 2007. Does the mod take the amp back to pre 2007 specs? It seems like a lot of folks have been complaining about this "sizzle" I have a 2005 model and it does not have any sizzle to it at all, nor have I ever lacked any clarity in my sound, I have had countless soundguys compliment my tone and tell me how much clarity there is, even with a good dose of gain being used. When I first bought the amp I really had to practice to get my chops up to par since there was no saturation to hide behind with the VH4, you can hear everything, including every mistake.
Click to expand...

That's the sad thing. The VH4 does not sound better, just different. Depending on how much compression you want to lose, the mod
can get you closer to the Classic VH4 but not dead on. The main effect is on Ch. 3 and 4. The 2007+ amps have an extra gear in the gain department
on 2-4. The Classic channel 3 will go down in history as one of the best, but I am sure many people wanted more gain than it could give. With the gain
maxed I know I always wanted another 10 dB more. Channel 4 is almost the same liquid, smooth but with a little more tooth.
Click to expand...

So are the post 07 models more compressed? I would love a little more gain on my channel 2 but I am more than happy with the rest of the channels, and I only run the gain at 1:00 ish. It does not always feel like it's enough gain, but it is for me. I am still using my Einy for now anyhow. It's friggin great to have the choice between the VH4 and Einy!
 
smdb":59mo27yk said:
So for a while now everybody has been saying how much better the post 2007 VH4 sounds over the pre 2007. Does the mod take the amp back to pre 2007 specs? It seems like a lot of folks have been complaining about this "sizzle" I have a 2005 model and it does not have any sizzle to it at all, nor have I ever lacked any clarity in my sound.I have had countless soundguys compliment my tone and tell me how much clarity there is, even with a good dose of gain being used. When I first bought the amp I really had to practice to get my chops up to par since there was no saturation to hide behind with the VH4, you can hear everything, including every mistake.
Click to expand...
Actually, I like how accurate the amp is. I don't particularly find the amp unforgiving like a lot of people have said. I've played for 25 years and taught for about 15 and find the amp's precision very appealing. When I first got the amp I thought it sounded great. I still think it's an outstanding amp. It just surprised me when I compared the red channel of the pre-500 Dual Rec with channel 3 of the VH4. I expected the VH4 to blow it away (in a general sense) but it didn't (and trust me, after spending what I did on it I was rooting for the VH4). Not to mention, the DR was plugged into an old Mesa/Boogie 4x12 half back (half open back; not my preference) loaded with Black Shadows (again, far from my favorite) of which only 3 speakers work. I had 2 friends over that have played guitar for 15+ years (one in a touring band) and asked what they thought. They both slightly liked the DR "better" (again, in a general sense). They did say that the DR sounded more "dated" like something you'd hear from the early '90s. They both preferred the low-end of the VH4 but thought it sounded too compressed and that the notes got lost in the distortion. They said the note definition was better on the DR; that it seemed to be more articulate.

I do like the VH4. I like it a lot. From a features perspective, it's the best amp I've ever owned. It's amazingly quiet and the low end is just tremendous. My only gripe is that I want channel 3 and 4 to be a little more open (less compressed).
 
I had the mod done to my 2007 VH-4 and honestly didn't notice much difference at all... the "Pre/Post" 2007 thing drove me so crazy that when I got my tax return I actually bought a 2006 VH-4 just to A/B the two heads side by side...

My conclusion is very very simple... the 2007+ heads just have WAY too much fucking gain, period, it really is an unusable amount, and the are extremely compressed as well and it can cause for a fizzy mess when you mix all these factors, the mod DOES help some, but my 2006 head is an entirely different animal, it's less compressed, more open sounding, and just sounds more "raw"... I would absolutely LOVE to try and much much older VH-4 and see what it sounds like.

But obviously your opinion could be completely different from mine... the person I just sold the 2007 VH-4 to actually called me today and his exact words were "Man I absolutely love this amp but it house an unusable amount of gain"... so take it for what it's worth, the mod Mark is talking about isn't a cure-all by any means, and I would definitely throw 6550's in the head in conjunction with this mod, IMO a VH-4 should never have anything other then 6550's in it.

Lastly, I wanted to add that I think everyone here knows how much I love the Herbert and VH-4 and Diezel in general, this is in no way intended to bash Diezel products in any way shape or form, I do however believe that sometimes people will give a sugarcoated answer to someones questions as to either not step on anyones toes, or because they are so devoted to their Diezel amps they don't want to say anything negative, this is just a no BS assessment and opinion...

But MARK2C is the absolute man and is an asset to this forum, he won't lead you astray and you can trust everything that he say's, I owe him so much for all the help he's given me in the past, cheers fellas.
 
Mizati20":2od1fn1l said:
I had the mod done to my 2007 VH-4 and honestly didn't notice much difference at all... the "Pre/Post" 2007 thing drove me so crazy that when I got my tax return I actually bought a 2006 VH-4 just to A/B the two heads side by side...

My conclusion is very very simple... the 2007+ heads just have WAY too much fucking gain, period, it really is an unusable amount, and the are extremely compressed as well and it can cause for a fizzy mess when you mix all these factors, the mod DOES help some, but my 2006 head is an entirely different animal, it's less compressed, more open sounding, and just sounds more "raw"... I would absolutely LOVE to try and much much older VH-4 and see what it sounds like.

But obviously your opinion could be completely different from mine... the person I just sold the 2007 VH-4 to actually called me today and his exact words were "Man I absolutely love this amp but it house an unusable amount of gain"... so take it for what it's worth, the mod Mark is talking about isn't a cure-all by any means, and I would definitely throw 6550's in the head in conjunction with this mod, IMO a VH-4 should never have anything other then 6550's in it.

Lastly, I wanted to add that I think everyone here knows how much I love the Herbert and VH-4 and Diezel in general, this is in no way intended to bash Diezel products in any way shape or form, I do however believe that sometimes people will give a sugarcoated answer to someones questions as to either not step on anyones toes, or because they are so devoted to their Diezel amps they don't want to say anything negative, this is just a no BS assessment and opinion...

But MARK2C is the absolute man and is an asset to this forum, he won't lead you astray and you can trust everything that he say's, I owe him so much for all the help he's given me in the past, cheers fellas.
Click to expand...

It's a two part mod. First the resistor, then the 6550. If you want more VH4 Classic gain you could go up to 470K for the mod.
For my ears 100K and 6550's were much less compressed, gainy and the amp did not have the fizzies and has 3D depth. Not so much with EL34's which had
a different top end, but that could be attributed to the tube type. Maybe 470K and EL34's would be fine for someone else to tweak the compression
/fizz on Ch. 3 and 4. The resistor in question is the mixer for all four channels. The lower the value, the more high end.

I would be more than happy to try the 470K with SED, Ruby, JJ E34L's etc to see what it sounds like before anyone takes the plunge
and I send out e-mails. Papa said 68K, 100K or up to 470K, so that's my story..... Papa can chime in and fire me if he want's.
He's got the best freakin' ears !!!!

Let me know. :thumbsup:
 
I'm pretty happy with my '09 VH4S as is - loaded with 6550's and 12AX7B's. No issues whatsoever. I can't bring myself to think that a resistor could make things any better. After reading this thread, it once AGAIN made me think of one of my fave guitarist's/musician's/composer's CD title "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" (FZ, RIP) :2thumbsup:

Seriously, Diezel's rip - WTF is going on here?? :doh:

V.
 
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