Bob Savage
Well-known member
Very cool! Getting inspired is alway a good thing especially when it has to do with learning new skills.
Had an eye opening guitar lesson last night
- Thread starter Steinmetzify
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iplayloudly
Active member
Mizati20":301fzvkg said:
Ditto this. Most of the time I don't even know what notes I'm playing. I just know what sounds good. Sometimes if someone asks me "what note was that you just played?", I have to literally stop and think about it for a minute.
Steinmetzify
Well-known member
Fuck no; I can barely find A on the D string, man. I'm working on it though! Spit some knowledge sir, I'll take all I can get.
The key for me was,not learning A minor.but learning major.major major major!!ill preach it forever.whenever i figure out a progression,i harmonize it to see which major scale it is derived from.
Lets say,u have a rock rogression of Am/Fmaj/Gmaj.and it does that 3.5 times,then the last 2 beats are Dminor.
I pick apart those notes,and find out the only scale that will have Fmaj and Gmaj in it is Cmajor.and yes A is a minor note in cmajor scale.and D is also a minor note from CMajor.
So there,ive figured out the major scale for that progression is indeed ...C major.
So to get put of the box,youll hafta figure out the notes of C major are... C d e f g a b c.
So from there,i see i can play different modes on each chord.
While the A is playing,i can do A min
(Aolean)or pentatonic minor scale.over the F,i would use,F lydian.over the G i would play...g mixolydian.over the D i would play...D dorian.they are all fancy names,but in reality,your just using the same notes of a C major scale. C d e f g a b c.
The trick is in phrasing,and landing on the correct notes.an example would be...
D Dorian.the scale formula is the same pattern as Aolean with a raised 6th.that would be a B note.( understand that its B because it has to be relevant to the notes in C major.so as your playing the d chord,and hell,make a backing track of just D chords with different rhythms,so over the D chord,concentrate on landing on,bending up to,and exaggerating the use of the B notes and D notes while the D chord is beeing strummed.of course the D note will sound perfect everytime,the B note is what actually gives u the Dorian sound.so solo using notes of c major,over a d chord,and think of the D and B as your notes to resolve to.will also help your ear to hear when someone else is soling in Dorian.
Any questions PM me.i love talkin this stuff.
Lets say,u have a rock rogression of Am/Fmaj/Gmaj.and it does that 3.5 times,then the last 2 beats are Dminor.
I pick apart those notes,and find out the only scale that will have Fmaj and Gmaj in it is Cmajor.and yes A is a minor note in cmajor scale.and D is also a minor note from CMajor.
So there,ive figured out the major scale for that progression is indeed ...C major.
So to get put of the box,youll hafta figure out the notes of C major are... C d e f g a b c.
So from there,i see i can play different modes on each chord.
While the A is playing,i can do A min
(Aolean)or pentatonic minor scale.over the F,i would use,F lydian.over the G i would play...g mixolydian.over the D i would play...D dorian.they are all fancy names,but in reality,your just using the same notes of a C major scale. C d e f g a b c.
The trick is in phrasing,and landing on the correct notes.an example would be...
D Dorian.the scale formula is the same pattern as Aolean with a raised 6th.that would be a B note.( understand that its B because it has to be relevant to the notes in C major.so as your playing the d chord,and hell,make a backing track of just D chords with different rhythms,so over the D chord,concentrate on landing on,bending up to,and exaggerating the use of the B notes and D notes while the D chord is beeing strummed.of course the D note will sound perfect everytime,the B note is what actually gives u the Dorian sound.so solo using notes of c major,over a d chord,and think of the D and B as your notes to resolve to.will also help your ear to hear when someone else is soling in Dorian.
Any questions PM me.i love talkin this stuff.
Steinmetzify
Well-known member
You lost me on the third line, bro. Think dumber, ok? I don't know which chords are which, and I don't know the names. You gotta realize I don't know ANY theory, AT ALL.
I learned the pentatonic scale a long time ago, and the Aeolian scale two days ago, and the C Major scale yesterday. That's the extent of my knowledge.
I learned the pentatonic scale a long time ago, and the Aeolian scale two days ago, and the C Major scale yesterday. That's the extent of my knowledge.
Ok,quick tidbit,u just learned the roadmaps from your friend.now u need to learn the street names.lol.
Find an A,5th fret sixth string.play frets 5-7-8with your index,ring and pinky.move down to the 5th string 5th fret.again play 5-7-8Thats the 3note pattern of the A minor(aolean scale).
So now u need to know that on the top four strings...if u play the A note on the 5th fret,Sixth string,the octave of that will be 2 strings down,2frets toward the bridge.
Soooo,if u play the same pattern,5-6-7 on E string,then 5-6-7 on the A string.u just played ABC,DEF notes.
On the 4th string,play 7-9-10. And on the 3rd string play 7-9-10.you just played the A minor Aeolean scale( minus the G note) in 2 octaves.its something Paul Gilbert does.
So just play those 12 note,slowly and cleanly with a metronome.all up/down alternative picking.youll feel your right hand get stronger,your left hand cover more ground.
And do it to a backing track of an A monor chord (a/c/e) and your ear will get acustomed to the intervals.
Again, not tryin to talk down,just tryin to explain so u can see what im tryin to get across.
Find an A,5th fret sixth string.play frets 5-7-8with your index,ring and pinky.move down to the 5th string 5th fret.again play 5-7-8Thats the 3note pattern of the A minor(aolean scale).
So now u need to know that on the top four strings...if u play the A note on the 5th fret,Sixth string,the octave of that will be 2 strings down,2frets toward the bridge.
Soooo,if u play the same pattern,5-6-7 on E string,then 5-6-7 on the A string.u just played ABC,DEF notes.
On the 4th string,play 7-9-10. And on the 3rd string play 7-9-10.you just played the A minor Aeolean scale( minus the G note) in 2 octaves.its something Paul Gilbert does.
So just play those 12 note,slowly and cleanly with a metronome.all up/down alternative picking.youll feel your right hand get stronger,your left hand cover more ground.
And do it to a backing track of an A monor chord (a/c/e) and your ear will get acustomed to the intervals.
Again, not tryin to talk down,just tryin to explain so u can see what im tryin to get across.
Ok, chords,barre chords schmarr chords!!!root fifth power chords. Throw them out the window.
From the C major scale(best place to start in my book)
Chords are based upon some intervals.
A major chord is root,major 3rd and 5th.
Soooo,c major scale is c d e f g a b c.
And would be spelled out.....1 3 5
Minor would be.....1 flat3 5.
Label the C as 1,D as 2,E as 3,F as 4,G as 5,A as 6,B as 7.
This is why u need to learn every note on the fretboard first.patterns are great,but you need to be abke to see that 6th string/5th fret is an A etc etc.
So to make a C major chord,play the notes...C (3rd fret fifth string),E (2nd fret fourth string) and an open G string ( 3rd string,no notes fretted). Im guessing u have playedthis before,but never knew the name.maybe not.thats fine.now u can also add the C note (1st fret,second string and the open high E striong.notice how every note i spoke of is either C D or E.cuz those,and only those notes make up a c major chord.chord books are a joke.but that is a C major chord.theory wise,and harmony wise,its the E note that makes it Major.if you replaced the E note,by playing an E flat note...that chord would become minor.
So every other note of a C major scale is used to make up the C major chord.
Get it?
C yes.(skip D) E yes (skip F) G yes.
Get it.ill stop there for today.
From the C major scale(best place to start in my book)
Chords are based upon some intervals.
A major chord is root,major 3rd and 5th.
Soooo,c major scale is c d e f g a b c.
And would be spelled out.....1 3 5
Minor would be.....1 flat3 5.
Label the C as 1,D as 2,E as 3,F as 4,G as 5,A as 6,B as 7.
This is why u need to learn every note on the fretboard first.patterns are great,but you need to be abke to see that 6th string/5th fret is an A etc etc.
So to make a C major chord,play the notes...C (3rd fret fifth string),E (2nd fret fourth string) and an open G string ( 3rd string,no notes fretted). Im guessing u have playedthis before,but never knew the name.maybe not.thats fine.now u can also add the C note (1st fret,second string and the open high E striong.notice how every note i spoke of is either C D or E.cuz those,and only those notes make up a c major chord.chord books are a joke.but that is a C major chord.theory wise,and harmony wise,its the E note that makes it Major.if you replaced the E note,by playing an E flat note...that chord would become minor.
So every other note of a C major scale is used to make up the C major chord.
Get it?
C yes.(skip D) E yes (skip F) G yes.
Get it.ill stop there for today.
Invidious":34nzm2fd said:
JamPlay is a great tool for both beginner and proficient guitar players. As you said there is so much learning material it worth checking out.. http://guitareffectspedalz.com/jamplay- ... tar-online will provide the basic info, hope that helps anyone.
Mailman1971
Moderator
Try playing completely nude from the waist down.
Just let me know where the gig will be steinmetz.
Going to grab a front row seat.
Just let me know where the gig will be steinmetz.
Going to grab a front row seat.
stratjacket
Well-known member
I posted this a while back. It may help someone in learning the fretboard. It’s a little method for learning modes and being able to move around the fretboard from any position.
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=187614#p2094518
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=187614#p2094518
sixty-niner":21po3dqe said:
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but this isn't correct. See how he starts on A and calls the key A but starts playing the A minor scale? Well, the would be the key of Aminor, not A(considering when simply using a letter name infers it being major). Coming down three frets from the root places one in the MINOR scale, not major. Starting from a minor key and moving down three frets doesn't work the same way. Unless he and I simply have very different knowledge of the fretboard, he seems backwards to me? Gorehog is on point, however.
shredhead7
Active member
Steinmetzify":2f0b2lky said:So I decided to start doing the forum jams that people throw out once a month.....just to break out of a doom/metal rut I've been in for awhile, combat some 'audience fear' I've had since forever, and just generally play some cool blues type stuff which for whatever reason I don't do anymore and miss.
Talked a friend into doing one that I did as well, and he just killed it.
I picked up a guitar at about age 13 (40 now) and never took a lesson....I'm self-taught and it shows, especially when doing leads.
My jam sounded ok to me, but I'm stuck in that necessary but hated pentatonic box, and his was 5 full minutes of nothing repeating and sounded killer...pretty much exactly how I'd want my stuff to sound, with minor variations.
We were talking about it, and I was bemoaning the fact that mine didn't sound as good, and he offered me a lesson or 17. Decided to take him up on it last night, and inside of two hours he unlocked so many things for me.....showed me some scales that would fit in with what I already knew so I could have more notes for different expressions, and things are starting to fit together; the 'roadmap' of random notes on a fretboard now have names and some lines drawn connecting the dots.
Just wanted to post it up because I'm hyped; I understand so much more now than I did yesterday and I can already hear a difference. I'm gonna redo the MLP jam today with some of the stuff he showed me, and with any luck it should sound much better.
That's great! I remember when I took lessons, I would have what I call the fuzzy's on my head; where your scalp just tingles due to excitement. It's an awesome feeling. Good luck on your quest!
JerEvil
Well-known member
Dude that’s awesome!Steinmetzify":24sjnjuq said:So I decided to start doing the forum jams that people throw out once a month.....just to break out of a doom/metal rut I've been in for awhile, combat some 'audience fear' I've had since forever, and just generally play some cool blues type stuff which for whatever reason I don't do anymore and miss.
Talked a friend into doing one that I did as well, and he just killed it.
I picked up a guitar at about age 13 (40 now) and never took a lesson....I'm self-taught and it shows, especially when doing leads.
My jam sounded ok to me, but I'm stuck in that necessary but hated pentatonic box, and his was 5 full minutes of nothing repeating and sounded killer...pretty much exactly how I'd want my stuff to sound, with minor variations.
We were talking about it, and I was bemoaning the fact that mine didn't sound as good, and he offered me a lesson or 17. Decided to take him up on it last night, and inside of two hours he unlocked so many things for me.....showed me some scales that would fit in with what I already knew so I could have more notes for different expressions, and things are starting to fit together; the 'roadmap' of random notes on a fretboard now have names and some lines drawn connecting the dots.
Just wanted to post it up because I'm hyped; I understand so much more now than I did yesterday and I can already hear a difference. I'm gonna redo the MLP jam today with some of the stuff he showed me, and with any luck it should sound much better.
I am in the same boat. My improve sucks. I also started at 13. Took about 4 lessons and got sick of 15 of 30 of my minutes being wasted by the teacher showing me how much better he was than me. I have a GREAT ear for pickup up parts but am all self taught and it’s been a downfall for me.
Someone once said I’d be dangerous if I’d learn what I was doing. I am making that a 2018 goal.
Oh... the Khed is 43... I are old manz!!!
JimmyBlind
Active member
I'm a classically trained musician. I can't improvise for shit on the electric guitar by all accounts. Pretty much had to teach myself the framework of the fretboard & modes etc. It kinda baffles me why the classical syllabus doesn't really teach you to be creative with an instrument when its fundamental purpose is as a creative medium.
Some of my friends are incredible players with zero professional tuition. People who walk the path of creativity tend to make better player musicians from my experience & it's probably a better reason to take up an instrument than to concentrate on simply becoming a skilled player of classical material.
I think i've heard Guthrie mention on a few occasions that he only ever focused on producing the sounds in his head, which seems to agree.
Some of my friends are incredible players with zero professional tuition. People who walk the path of creativity tend to make better player musicians from my experience & it's probably a better reason to take up an instrument than to concentrate on simply becoming a skilled player of classical material.
I think i've heard Guthrie mention on a few occasions that he only ever focused on producing the sounds in his head, which seems to agree.
JerEvil
Well-known member
This is one of the things I learned for quick improv stuff.Bxlxaxkxe":3o787rtl said:
If a song is in the Key of A and you at LEAST know that going in, you have a few seconds to see (in a live jam situation) if your index finger should start on the A or if your pinky should land on the A. That'll tell you if it is Major or Minor. From there you can use your Major Scale shapes or pentatonic patterns accordingly and "get through".
Bxlxaxkxe":3llmtx0a said:
Responding to the last two comments:
The video is about mixing both A major and A minor and he clearly points out whether he is playing major or minor.
Fuego is correct about moving from the root of a major scale down to the 6th degree of the scale (ex. In C major going down to the A note) to get to the root of a minor scale. But here he is talking about moving a pentatonic shape down 3 frets from a minor pentatonic (A minor Pentatonic = A-C-D-E-G) which gives a major pentatonic (A major pentatonic = F#-A-B-C#-E)
As far as F# not being in C major. The F# he's referring to is in the A major scale.
Not brought up in this discussion I don't think is the fact that there are multiple types of minor scales. Dorian (from the 2nd degree of a major scale) Phrygian (from the 3rd degree) and Aeolian/Natural/Pure minor (from the 6th degree of the scale.
For A minors it would be like this:
A Dorian minor based off of the 2nd of G major would be A-B-C-D-E-F#-G.
A Phrygian minor based off of the 3rd of F Major would be A-Bb-C-D-E-F-G.
A Aeolian minor based off the 6th of C major would be A-B-C-D-E-F-G.
There are also altered scales like Harmonic minor, Melodic minor, etc. so there are lots of possibilities to look at.
I hope this post doesn't come across poorly or condescending. I don't mean for it to be that way. I'm just trying to be to the point.
JerEvil":z9y4dvjg said:
I'm watching him play at work with subtitles and no sound so I probably sound retarded, but if he's playing in A minor, F# major is out of nowhere. If he's playing in A major, then F# minor makes complete sense. But he's clearly playing in A minor pentatonic starting at the 5th fret of the 6th string. He then moves down three frets and says he's in F# Major Pentatonic. F# is not in the C major/A minor scale - that's what's confusing. At the end of the day, if it sounds good it sounds good. I'll play around with it when I get home.
Edit:
A bunch of people in the comments have this same problem. Here is someone's explanation:
"The thing that makes blues sound the way it does is because the of the A minor scale you play in the key of A major. So if you're playing blues track in A major, you would play the A minor pentatonic to get the bluesy sound. In addition to that, you can use the F# minor pentatonic as well because it's still in the key of A major, so it adds like extra color to your bluesyness.
So let's say it's blues in C major, then the C minor pentatonic is what makes it bluesy and the relative A minor adds the extra major sound to it. You combine both major and minor scales in the key of C to get that extra bluesy color to it. Hope this made sense! feel free to ask me if you need more clarification!"