LIVE: Axe FX II/Kemper vs. Iso-Cab

kasperjensen

New member
First off, I have no experience with either of them.

I am just doing some research on the best option for a live rig. I want a fully produced sound we can take anywhere.

Guitar wise, I want something that will sound great at any volume, and can be put through the PA with the rest of the band. So a half stack is just not an option.

I am thinking of either the Axe-FX II / Kemper, or having a head and then running it full blast through an Iso-Cab... Has anyone had any experience with both of these?

Any thoughts are much appreciated.
 
I had both... The Iso-cab was too boxy sounding, you would have to EQ it out. The Axe FX to me is too cold sounding at higain setting. However it sounds TRULY great at mid-low gain settings.

If you have space for a iso booth where you can fit allot of acoustic material and play through a regular cabinet, that might be the most realistic setting.

The Axe FX is a great recording tool tho, I have to admit. I sold mine tho, and I use a good old 4x12 mic'ed up with a 57 and a 121... love it. Just didnt feel the axe was all that.
 
xzyryabx":30l4qlg9 said:
how about your pre-a,p into a torpedo CAB or Live.....best of both worlds, and MUCH cheaper


This

Or get the live Torpedo with a loadbox so you can run your own amp.
 
I had a Kemper. I liked it for home recording but I always found it missing something. Still, it's a great tool, regardless. You are stuck with how one profiles the amp/cab for it. You can separate the two but the results aren't always what you would expect.

At this point though, I have a Torpedo live and am very, very happy with it. I take it with me when I play live, I use it in the studio and I can still play live with with or without my 4x12 and FOH at the same time to eliminate micing.

I've also found that the cab models on the LIve are much better than what I was getting with my Kemper. Couple that with some new IR functionality that the Two-Notes stuff has, and you have a great setup.

:)
 
I've used an ISO cab and AXE FX 2 live (and briefly owned a Torpedo LIVE) and can share my thoughts and opinions. This is all based on my experience.

1. Used a RIVERA Silent Sister ISO live twice. At home and at practice, it sounded great: didn't sound boxy, and was able to EQ it so it can sit in the mix nicely. Live, I really couldn't tell because we're at the mercy of the sounguy (we're an original hard rock band w/o own soundguy). So the only "feedback" (no pun intended) I can give is what I heard onstage, which we all know it's never a good way to judge what the audience is hearing through the FOH. With that said, the first gig my tone was blaring through the house monitors (I told the soundguy that since I don't have a backline I needed to hear myself through the monitors). The second gig, I decided not to say anything to the soundguy and have him mix my monitors normally. Well, I couldn't hear myself at all! Bottom line with my experience using an ISO: it can work, but for me, it's too much gear to lug around because I would need my own monitoring system (wedge, small 112 cab, etc).

2. Torpedo LIVE. I had one for about a week. It sounded really good, but only listened to it through my home's studio monitors and headphones; never got the chance to try it a gig volume (rehearsal or live). After I placed it in my rig, there was this massive ground noise that I couldn't for the life of me get rid off. Looking back, I'm sure it was user error and not the Torpedo, but I got so frustrated with everything I decided to finally get an Axe and get rid of my tube amp and rig!

3. Axe FX 2. My other guitarist has been using one for about six months so I had some "experience" already. At first he was using it with a poweramp (Matrix GT800) through a 212 cab (Orange) and mic'ed so it was still more traditional than how many are using it today (including us, see below). Also, at that time he was on v6 or 7 I believe. Anyway, I was able to sell off some gear and get a hold of a used one. Tried it at home first, had a "meh" kind of feeling and at this point was really, really frustrated (note: for those wondering why not just use a 412 with amp, I'll explain in a bit). So I began tweaking, and tweaking, which I was afraid of after reading online the reason many stay away from this unit (and I'm not a tweaker). Another gig was coming up in a week and decided to just use it. I decided to go direct FOH and use a FRFR for my own monitoring. As for my own "monitoring" I only had a Mackie wedge (which we used as part of our PA system at our rehearsal studio). Not the best choice, but it was something. Well, the gig went pretty well. I was able to hear myself, adjust the volume onstage and not affect the FOH and soundguy. The tone I was not crazy about. Had a few more gigs, and tweaking in-between. One show I decided to leave my wedge and just "rely" on the soundguy to mix me through their wedge and I was so loud that there was feedback all over the place (but not through the FOH). Still, it was a difficult show. During this time I'm selling gear to get enough to purchase a high quality FRFR (was looking at the RCF since the CLR were not available yet). Then, v10 came out. That, to me, changed everything! Again, this is my own opinion. I felt that I was able to dial in a good sounding tone and EQ it to sit nicely in the mix. The other "revelation": I got myself a set of IEM monitors. My AXE Out 1 is going to the FOH and the Out 2 is going to my IEM. Also, I have an ambient mic near me that acts as my "ears" and I'm set! I can hear everything! And I don't have to bother anyone: the soundguy can mix me however he wants (I now tell him not to put me too loud in the monitor or just very little). Had four shows so far with them and I'm loving it! Also, my other guitarist now goes direct to FOH and is planning on getting his own IEM too. The singer is on IEM and the drummer too (headphones). Bass player is still "old school" but might come around eventually ;)

4. Kemper. Never had a chance to use them but from what I've read and the videos I saw it sounds like a very good unit. For me, the AXE was a better fit.

I've been using a tube amp and 412 cab all my life onstage. Some nights it sounds amazing, others not so much. The thing about tube amps and cabs onstage (for me and my experience and my band situation) was that I just could never crank it up to get to that sweep spot (with the 5150), or sometimes I would reach that sweep spot with an amp with good MV (Dual Rectifier and FUCHS Mantis), but could not hear myself onstage cause either the drums are too loud, my monitors are too loud, or something else. Also, the cabs are sometimes mic'ed well, and no matter how "great" your amp sounds onstage, it sounds like sh*t to the audience 'cause the mic is not placed right, or it got bumped (which happened on more than a few occasions). I just came to a point in my playing that I wanted consistency, less volume on stage, and a good sounding "mic" tone mixed with the rest of the band.

Hope this helps!

PJ

PS: Next week we're sharing the stage with RED and the sound system there is amazing! In four weeks we're playing at Irving Plaza in NYC and the sound is also amazing. Last month we shared the stage with Nonpoint and Hinder and afterwards the soundguy came to us and said how good and clear we sounded and he had a good time mixing us. It's funny that Nonpoint were using FUCHS amps 'cause before going with the AXE I had an endorsement deal with FUCHS and was playing a Mantis (before that it was a MESA Dual Rectifier and Peavey 5150). Amazing amp, still miss it, but for my situation now, I'm happier with the Axe. Nonpoint's sound was amazing (all mic'ed 412 FUCHS cabs), but again, own soundguys and own monitoring engineers.
 
PBGas":3v8l1u99 said:
I had a Kemper. I liked it for home recording but I always found it missing something. Still, it's a great tool, regardless. You are stuck with how one profiles the amp/cab for it. You can separate the two but the results aren't always what you would expect.

At this point though, I have a Torpedo live and am very, very happy with it. I take it with me when I play live, I use it in the studio and I can still play live with with or without my 4x12 and FOH at the same time to eliminate micing.

I've also found that the cab models on the LIve are much better than what I was getting with my Kemper. Couple that with some new IR functionality that the Two-Notes stuff has, and you have a great setup.

:)

Thanks for that. I am gonna start looking into the Torpedo too.

:thumbsup:
 
pjrake":1t76yiia said:
I've used an ISO cab and AXE FX 2 live (and briefly owned a Torpedo LIVE) and can share my thoughts and opinions. This is all based on my experience.

1. Used a RIVERA Silent Sister ISO live twice. At home and at practice, it sounded great: didn't sound boxy, and was able to EQ it so it can sit in the mix nicely. Live, I really couldn't tell because we're at the mercy of the sounguy (we're an original hard rock band w/o own soundguy). So the only "feedback" (no pun intended) I can give is what I heard onstage, which we all know it's never a good way to judge what the audience is hearing through the FOH. With that said, the first gig my tone was blaring through the house monitors (I told the soundguy that since I don't have a backline I needed to hear myself through the monitors). The second gig, I decided not to say anything to the soundguy and have him mix my monitors normally. Well, I couldn't hear myself at all! Bottom line with my experience using an ISO: it can work, but for me, it's too much gear to lug around because I would need my own monitoring system (wedge, small 112 cab, etc).

2. Torpedo LIVE. I had one for about a week. It sounded really good, but only listened to it through my home's studio monitors and headphones; never got the chance to try it a gig volume (rehearsal or live). After I placed it in my rig, there was this massive ground noise that I couldn't for the life of me get rid off. Looking back, I'm sure it was user error and not the Torpedo, but I got so frustrated with everything I decided to finally get an Axe and get rid of my tube amp and rig!

3. Axe FX 2. My other guitarist has been using one for about six months so I had some "experience" already. At first he was using it with a poweramp (Matrix GT800) through a 212 cab (Orange) and mic'ed so it was still more traditional than how many are using it today (including us, see below). Also, at that time he was on v6 or 7 I believe. Anyway, I was able to sell off some gear and get a hold of a used one. Tried it at home first, had a "meh" kind of feeling and at this point was really, really frustrated (note: for those wondering why not just use a 412 with amp, I'll explain in a bit). So I began tweaking, and tweaking, which I was afraid of after reading online the reason many stay away from this unit (and I'm not a tweaker). Another gig was coming up in a week and decided to just use it. I decided to go direct FOH and use a FRFR for my own monitoring. As for my own "monitoring" I only had a Mackie wedge (which we used as part of our PA system at our rehearsal studio). Not the best choice, but it was something. Well, the gig went pretty well. I was able to hear myself, adjust the volume onstage and not affect the FOH and soundguy. The tone I was not crazy about. Had a few more gigs, and tweaking in-between. One show I decided to leave my wedge and just "rely" on the soundguy to mix me through their wedge and I was so loud that there was feedback all over the place (but not through the FOH). Still, it was a difficult show. During this time I'm selling gear to get enough to purchase a high quality FRFR (was looking at the RCF since the CLR were not available yet). Then, v10 came out. That, to me, changed everything! Again, this is my own opinion. I felt that I was able to dial in a good sounding tone and EQ it to sit nicely in the mix. The other "revelation": I got myself a set of IEM monitors. My AXE Out 1 is going to the FOH and the Out 2 is going to my IEM. Also, I have an ambient mic near me that acts as my "ears" and I'm set! I can hear everything! And I don't have to bother anyone: the soundguy can mix me however he wants (I now tell him not to put me too loud in the monitor or just very little). Had four shows so far with them and I'm loving it! Also, my other guitarist now goes direct to FOH and is planning on getting his own IEM too. The singer is on IEM and the drummer too (headphones). Bass player is still "old school" but might come around eventually ;)

4. Kemper. Never had a chance to use them but from what I've read and the videos I saw it sounds like a very good unit. For me, the AXE was a better fit.

I've been using a tube amp and 412 cab all my life onstage. Some nights it sounds amazing, others not so much. The thing about tube amps and cabs onstage (for me and my experience and my band situation) was that I just could never crank it up to get to that sweep spot (with the 5150), or sometimes I would reach that sweep spot with an amp with good MV (Dual Rectifier and FUCHS Mantis), but could not hear myself onstage cause either the drums are too loud, my monitors are too loud, or something else. Also, the cabs are sometimes mic'ed well, and no matter how "great" your amp sounds onstage, it sounds like sh*t to the audience 'cause the mic is not placed right, or it got bumped (which happened on more than a few occasions). I just came to a point in my playing that I wanted consistency, less volume on stage, and a good sounding "mic" tone mixed with the rest of the band.

Hope this helps!

PJ

PS: Next week we're sharing the stage with RED and the sound system there is amazing! In four weeks we're playing at Irving Plaza in NYC and the sound is also amazing. Last month we shared the stage with Nonpoint and Hinder and afterwards the soundguy came to us and said how good and clear we sounded and he had a good time mixing us. It's funny that Nonpoint were using FUCHS amps 'cause before going with the AXE I had an endorsement deal with FUCHS and was playing a Mantis (before that it was a MESA Dual Rectifier and Peavey 5150). Amazing amp, still miss it, but for my situation now, I'm happier with the Axe. Nonpoint's sound was amazing (all mic'ed 412 FUCHS cabs), but again, own soundguys and own monitoring engineers.

Thank you kindly for your insight. Makes total sense what you are saying.

After reading this, and listening to some clips here and there, I think the best option may be the Axe-FX II.

I don't need drastical changes in sound, but at least I can make appropriate changes and patches to get closer to a produced sound on stage.
I want a 2x12 or something on stage to have sound, but it just being able to turn it down.

I have a Brunetti 059 and it's an absolute beast, but it needs to be so so loud to really come in to it's own. And that's fine if you are playing Wembley...!

For recording demo's at home and stuff for TV, I also feel it's the best option. I don't mind tweaking, and love to have loads of options. Especially blending amps together.

I suppose I better get to selling a bunch of gear :LOL: :LOL:

PS: I checked out your band, awesome sounding stuff dude! :thumbsup:
 
kasperjensen":2ipy9gng said:
Thank you kindly for your insight. Makes total sense what you are saying.

After reading this, and listening to some clips here and there, I think the best option may be the Axe-FX II.

I don't need drastical changes in sound, but at least I can make appropriate changes and patches to get closer to a produced sound on stage.
I want a 2x12 or something on stage to have sound, but it just being able to turn it down.

I have a Brunetti 059 and it's an absolute beast, but it needs to be so so loud to really come in to it's own. And that's fine if you are playing Wembley...!

For recording demo's at home and stuff for TV, I also feel it's the best option. I don't mind tweaking, and love to have loads of options. Especially blending amps together.

I suppose I better get to selling a bunch of gear :LOL: :LOL:

PS: I checked out your band, awesome sounding stuff dude! :thumbsup:

Thanks!!! \m/
 
I run a 2x12 at all gigs, big or small. Small gigs turn the cab backwards and mic it up. If you want it facing to the front throw a rectangular guitar case in front of it to block the sound.
There Are so many little tricks I've learned over the years. I use real amps and haven't had a sound guy complain in years.
Just be smart. There's no reason not to use a real amp. :thumbsup:
 
Badronald":33fukpyw said:
I run a 2x12 at all gigs, big or small. Small gigs turn the cab backwards and mic it up. If you want it facing to the front throw a rectangular guitar case in front of it to block the sound.
There Are so many little tricks I've learned over the years. I use real amps and haven't had a sound guy complain in years.
Just be smart. There's no reason not to use a real amp. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: Also a good point. I have seen a few bands do it, and it sounds cool.

I really wanna try out something like an Axe-FX II and the drummer playing a Roland TD-30KV... If we both spent a week tweaking, and put it through a good PA, I bet it could sound fucking killer.
 
I have the Two Notes Torpedo Live to use with my amps and it is just fucking over the top awesome for delivering FOH. No cabs onstage or for practice. Following that theme, I picked up a Randall ISO cab yesterday, just to compare notes really. I wanted to see what, if anything I was missing with the digital IR's. The ISO is cool, but you still get into that "which is the correct speaker" issue and I despise rolling speakers to get that sound. The ISO sounds a bit boxy and will definitely need some EQ help to make it right, and I won't be jacking with that. I have not had any failures with the Two Notes, but there are a couple guys reporting blowing fuses in their amps. The digital load of the Two Notes simulates the analog load. I guess you can't hit it too hard.

What amp are you trying to drive? I am sold on the Two Notes though for ease of use, convenience and great FOH delivery.
 
steve_k said:
but there are a couple guys reporting blowing fuses in their amps. The digital load of the Two Notes simulates the analog load. I guess you can't hit it too hard.
/quote]


I've been using the VP101 and LIVE for almost 3 years and never have blown a fuse with them - though I have blown fuses with cabs before - well once :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Will be interesting to see if this is an issue.

+1 on the 2-notes for what the OP said they were interested in. I guess it would depend how much you like your current amp, or whether you want to try something new with the Axe or Kemper.

As Steve said - it's a lot of work to get iso cabs to sound great - but once you do, they do - and they are a bitch to drag around.
 
steve_k":byq414th said:
I have the Two Notes Torpedo Live to use with my amps and it is just fucking over the top awesome for delivering FOH. No cabs onstage or for practice. Following that theme, I picked up a Randall ISO cab yesterday, just to compare notes really. I wanted to see what, if anything I was missing with the digital IR's. The ISO is cool, but you still get into that "which is the correct speaker" issue and I despise rolling speakers to get that sound. The ISO sounds a bit boxy and will definitely need some EQ help to make it right, and I won't be jacking with that. I have not had any failures with the Two Notes, but there are a couple guys reporting blowing fuses in their amps. The digital load of the Two Notes simulates the analog load. I guess you can't hit it too hard.

What amp are you trying to drive? I am sold on the Two Notes though for ease of use, convenience and great FOH delivery.

I love my Brunetti 059, and Dr Z Carmen Ghia, but they are so damn loud once they get to the sweet spot. I have had them up there once, and 3 pensioners died.
 
Shark Diver":17mcpk6k said:
steve_k":17mcpk6k said:
but there are a couple guys reporting blowing fuses in their amps. The digital load of the Two Notes simulates the analog load. I guess you can't hit it too hard.
/quote]


I've been using the VP101 and LIVE for almost 3 years and never have blown a fuse with them - though I have blown fuses with cabs before - well once :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Will be interesting to see if this is an issue.

+1 on the 2-notes for what the OP said they were interested in. I guess it would depend how much you like your current amp, or whether you want to try something new with the Axe or Kemper.

As Steve said - it's a lot of work to get iso cabs to sound great - but once you do, they do - and they are a bitch to drag around.

Same here - I haven't had a problem yet either. I went through about a month of testing things before gigging with it and had no problems. I don't want to have any part of convincing someone to use this and their favorite $4000 amp shit itself. But, you and I both can attest to it working without any failures. I haven't noticed any heat problems either - amp or TNTL.

Steve
 
kasperjensen":1mzpg2jt said:
steve_k":1mzpg2jt said:
I have the Two Notes Torpedo Live to use with my amps and it is just fucking over the top awesome for delivering FOH. No cabs onstage or for practice. Following that theme, I picked up a Randall ISO cab yesterday, just to compare notes really. I wanted to see what, if anything I was missing with the digital IR's. The ISO is cool, but you still get into that "which is the correct speaker" issue and I despise rolling speakers to get that sound. The ISO sounds a bit boxy and will definitely need some EQ help to make it right, and I won't be jacking with that. I have not had any failures with the Two Notes, but there are a couple guys reporting blowing fuses in their amps. The digital load of the Two Notes simulates the analog load. I guess you can't hit it too hard.

What amp are you trying to drive? I am sold on the Two Notes though for ease of use, convenience and great FOH delivery.

I love my Brunetti 059, and Dr Z Carmen Ghia, but they are so damn loud once they get to the sweet spot. I have had them up there once, and 3 pensioners died.

Hopefully it was a rockin funeral. Probably your Dr. Z you could run at full tilt with the TNTL. How many watts is the Brunetti?

The TNTL is rated for 100 watts @ 8 ohms. Now, doesn't mean you can dime a Superlead or a SLO. The rating I suppose accounts for actual load hitting the digital load algorithm which is going to spike everytime you dig in. I am running my D-Moll with the channel masters around noon and the main master around 10:00 without problems. The load I keep set for -6dB and control my monitors with the mixer slider.
 
steve_k":37lymchv said:
kasperjensen":37lymchv said:
steve_k":37lymchv said:
I have the Two Notes Torpedo Live to use with my amps and it is just fucking over the top awesome for delivering FOH. No cabs onstage or for practice. Following that theme, I picked up a Randall ISO cab yesterday, just to compare notes really. I wanted to see what, if anything I was missing with the digital IR's. The ISO is cool, but you still get into that "which is the correct speaker" issue and I despise rolling speakers to get that sound. The ISO sounds a bit boxy and will definitely need some EQ help to make it right, and I won't be jacking with that. I have not had any failures with the Two Notes, but there are a couple guys reporting blowing fuses in their amps. The digital load of the Two Notes simulates the analog load. I guess you can't hit it too hard.

What amp are you trying to drive? I am sold on the Two Notes though for ease of use, convenience and great FOH delivery.

I love my Brunetti 059, and Dr Z Carmen Ghia, but they are so damn loud once they get to the sweet spot. I have had them up there once, and 3 pensioners died.

Hopefully it was a rockin funeral. Probably your Dr. Z you could run at full tilt with the TNTL. How many watts is the Brunetti?

The TNTL is rated for 100 watts @ 8 ohms. Now, doesn't mean you can dime a Superlead or a SLO. The rating I suppose accounts for actual load hitting the digital load algorithm which is going to spike everytime you dig in. I am running my D-Moll with the channel masters around noon and the main master around 10:00 without problems. The load I keep set for -6dB and control my monitors with the mixer slider.

The Dr Z is only 18w I believe. It's not too loud, but still just a little too much.

The Brunetti is 100w at 8ohm. I found the sweet spot with all the dials around noon. Beautiful clear sound. Would be great to try with a Torpedo. Might end up with that and the Axe and then take it from there.
 
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