So You Wrote a Cool Riff But...

[dfrattaroli]

...you can't figure out what time-signature you're playing it in. What do you do?

This may sound odd to most of you but I think the biggest obstacle between me and recording my music is that when I write a riff or some "part", I can't always determine the timing. Yes, in the normal cases, I can tell it's just 4/4, triplets, sixteenths, whatever. But most of the time I write riffs that don't fit in a conventional 4 or 8 beat bar.

It gets confusing when, in one such case, I have something that may "fit" into different sub-divisions. For instance, I have one riff that I play in three "sections": 3 beats, 3 beats 2 beats. So in Sonar/JamStix I program bars in that order. It's a bitch. But then I wonder if that riff is really in 3/4 where it's triplet, triplet and 2 1/8th notes.

I'm rambling but my question is: Are there any basic methods or counting techniques for determining the time signater of a part?

Thanks.

Dave

 

[amiller]

Timing...what's that?

Sorry, man, my timing sucks. I can count straight 4/4, 3/4 and 7/8...beyound that... Mixed timing always throws be for a loop. If I wrote something in an odd time...well...it would be odd.

 

[degenaro]

...you can't figure out what time-signature you're playing it in. What do you do?

This may sound odd to most of you but I think the biggest obstacle between me and recording my music is that when I write a riff or some "part", I can't always determine the timing. Yes, in the normal cases, I can tell it's just 4/4, triplets, sixteenths, whatever. But most of the time I write riffs that don't fit in a conventional 4 or 8 beat bar.

It gets confusing when, in one such case, I have something that may "fit" into different sub-divisions. For instance, I have one riff that I play in three "sections": 3 beats, 3 beats 2 beats. So in Sonar/JamStix I program bars in that order. It's a bitch. But then I wonder if that riff is really in 3/4 where it's triplet, triplet and 2 1/8th notes.

I'm rambling but my question is: Are there any basic methods or counting techniques for determining the time signater of a part?

Thanks.

Dave

well if the duration of it is 3+3+2 beats that equals 8 beats....if it's 1/4 notes to the beat its 2 bars. What happens when you play it to a click?

 

[carl roa]

...you can't figure out what time-signature you're playing it in. What do you do?

Panic? Seriously, I write a lot of odd meter music ... sounds like you are on the right track. Learn to break it down into 2's and 3's .... Find where the accents are and make that "1". There is no one way to break it down really ... the most important issue is keeping the subdivisions happening. For communicating music to other musicians it can be helpful to express "7/8" or "5/4", etc ... figure out what the basic subdivision is (8ths, 16ths), find the accents ... and go from there. Hope this helped.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Ed, Carl, thanks for your responses.

With respect to one particular riff, last night I looped a simple 4/4 8th note pattern in JamStix. Ed, this is the 332 riff I was talking about. I realize now that I refer to it as such since, when I play it, the accent falls on the "1" of each group. In other words 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2.

So if you play it like that, it's a simple 4/4. I was confused because the accents influenced the way I was counting (332) and so I thought it might actually have been 3/4 with a triplet feel (the 3 3 part) and then the final 2 notes as straight 1/8ths.

Any way, I'm finding myself needing to know the timing now that I've finally sat down to record music I've had "laying around" for so long. I don't have a real human drummer to play with so I have to "tell" JamStix what to do.

In any case, thanks!

Dave

 

[Spaceboy]

I write in 4/4, but sometimes the initial riffs are 6/8 or some other signature, but I simply add a filler lick to bring it back to 4/4, depending on how it fits into the song. I usually carry around a metronome in my guitar case and when I write a rough riff, I use the metronome to determine timing and BPM, and to get the riff down real tight.

 

[degenaro]

I write in 4/4, but sometimes the initial riffs are 6/8 or some other signature, but I simply add a filler lick to bring it back to 4/4, depending on how it fits into the song. I usually carry around a metronome in my guitar case and when I write a rough riff, I use the metronome to determine timing and BPM, and to get the riff down real tight.

FWIW, 6/8 is really 2/4 with triplets, making it easier to notate.

 

[annvin]

I write in 4/4, but sometimes the initial riffs are 6/8 or some other signature, but I simply add a filler lick to bring it back to 4/4, depending on how it fits into the song. I usually carry around a metronome in my guitar case and when I write a rough riff, I use the metronome to determine timing and BPM, and to get the riff down real tight.

FWIW, 6/8 is really 2/4 with triplets, making it easier to notate.

yes, I will try it.

 

[MYLILSS]

i always just play the riff, then let my bro come over and figure out a kool drum beat for whatever we are playing, then i ask him what the time signature is. works for me

 

[stefvorcide]

i always just play the riff, then let my bro come over and figure out a kool drum beat for whatever we are playing, then i ask him what the time signature is. works for me

it used to be the exact opposite with my drummer !! when it was blastbeats we just counted the numbers of 8th notes (like 14, 25 etc) or lets say we had a run (scale.. but not in scale) he just counted the number of notes we played then put a tom for each one...

it was akward at first, most of the time he never knew the signature (to put into guitar pro)

I kinda just do like Carl Roa, I go with the accents. but it's weird when its 4/4, 7/8 then 5/4 (for the same riff)

 

[Bogged]

I have a couple of songs I wrote that would be odd to write on score but all I had to do was get along with my drum machine. That helps.

It's the feel thing if that makes sense.

 

[nbarts]

post the riff, I'll tell you what timing it is.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Great idea. I'll get my DR-07 and record a quick clip.

 

[dfrattaroli]

OK, here is the link. Sound quality is not great but you can clearly hear the riff.

http://www.dafguitars.com/images/misc/332riff.wav

Thanks!

Dave

 

[nbarts]

you need to play a loop, so we know where your riff begins & where it ends. repeat it 2 times in a loop at least.

from what I can hear now it was regular 4/4 with a tail.

in case it was one loop, than it was 4/4 combined with 5/4 or you can write it as 4/4 with 2 steps added, I think they write it like this "4/4^2"

 

[dfrattaroli]

you need to play a loop, so we know where your riff begins & where it ends. repeat it 2 times in a loop at least.

from what I can hear now it was regular 4/4 with a tail.

in case it was one loop, than it was 4/4 combined with 5/4 or you can write it as 4/4 with 2 steps added, I think they write it like this "4/4^2"

OK, I'll do that later. But that was one time through the riff. The next part changes so that particular riff, doesn't get repeated. What you hear in that clip, I count as 123 123 12 123 123 12 then 123, 6 times. Where each note gets a beat. So basically, counts of 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 1.

Anyway, I'll record the whole part so you have better context. Thanks for the help.

Dave

 

[dfrattaroli]

I still write most of my riffs like this. They usually don't fall into 4/4.

 

[racerevlon]

Get Guitar Pro 6 and start tabbing out your music. It will tell you if your notes fall within the time signature you've specified. It will force you to learn your note durations, time signatures, dotted notes, etc. I was recently having a bitch of a time trying to tab out a song I had specified as 4/4. NOTHING was coming out right. Then I realized the song is in 6/8. All of a sudden everything came together.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Get Guitar Pro 6 and start tabbing out your music. It will tell you if your notes fall within the time signature you've specified. It will force you to learn your note durations, time signatures, dotted notes, etc. I was recently having a bitch of a time trying to tab out a song I had specified as 4/4. NOTHING was coming out right. Then I realized the song is in 6/8. All of a sudden everything came together.

Thanks. I'm downloading the trial version right now.

Dave

 

[rocknrolla]