***Update***:Need some advice on a transaction

[phil b]

Yeah, 7 weeks my ass.

Exactly. Unless this was agreed upon previously, he's SOL with the PP 30 day window anyway. Too bad for him. Buyer's remorse probably.
Reverb's been cool with me, I sold an SLO to a guy that wanted a partial refund over 30 days later. Reverb shut that down quickly.

Yea, unfortunately this......
"Purchase Protection covers all eligible purchases where PayPal is used, as well as payments made through our website. To take advantage of Purchase Protection, we require, among other things, that PayPal accounts be kept in good standing and ask that a dispute be filed within 180 days of your purchase or payment."
Doesnt matter what anybodys auction says for returns. Paypal will over ride it. Isnt that lovely??

 

[Metlupass2]

For a second I thought this thread was asking for help with TRANSITIONING and I figured it was Danielle the Maleman asking for advice

 

[glpg80]

Sounds like a crock of shit. I'd tell him to pound sand.

I can tell you this, FedEx will laugh at you if you file a claim. That will go over like a lead balloon.

This.

 

[harddriver]

Yea, unfortunately this......
"Purchase Protection covers all eligible purchases where PayPal is used, as well as payments made through our website. To take advantage of Purchase Protection, we require, among other things, that PayPal accounts be kept in good standing and ask that a dispute be filed within 180 days of your purchase or payment."
Doesnt matter what anybodys auction says for returns. Paypal will over ride it. Isnt that lovely??

Can PP really enforce a 180 day return policy on used stuff? What are the "AMONG OTHER THINGS" in the policy statement to qualify for the 180 day time limit? I thought the timeframe originally was 90 days which is excessive to say the least... If this is the case buyers will have the ability to run amok with abusive claims on sellers if they wish.

You've lost your one avenue for restitution via the Fed Ex damage claim by having it packed by them and shipped 2nd day air, as a seller I think you did your part. Again all I think he is owed woud be partial payment towards power tubes period. Please let us know how this progresses as it's outcome affects future sale regarding PP to us all here.

 

[napalmdeath]

Still waiting to understand why OP shipped 2-Day shipping? If the buyer requested it, I think he shot himself in the foot.

Or, buyer needed it for a gig, and now needs to return it.

 

[vultures]

It's funny. In all my years of buying tube amps, no one has ever shipped me one with the tube pulled and packaged separately be it new or used.

I have done both. I don't sell a lot of amps but the first time I saw them pulled and labeled was from GC.

I do like that method better as it is easy to break an installed tube during shipment. However I have received a few amps with the tubes in and 90% of the time there were no issues.

As a buyer you should always expect to buy new tubes for any amp. I have had brand new amps come with a bad tube. It is not an uncommon thing.

I've shipped a handful of amps with the tubes pulled, wrapped, boxes, and labeled which socket with a handwritten diagram too (because you can never be sure of dumb-dumbs). I've since found it's too much of a pain in the ass and too expensive to ship amps, so I just sell them local. Would prob still pull tubes and protect them now just to cover my ass.

I agree with Maddnotez too, tubes on amps are like strings on a guitar. Always expect to buy new ones and you'll end up delightfully surprised if the amp comes with good tubes.



As for the OP, call Reverb and when you get to the department that handles claims, ask if there's anyone who plays guitar or knows about guitar amps. Work with them. If they have the day off, get their name and call back the next day.

I once bought a guitar off Reverb with a fucked up truss rod, took pics/videos of everything within hours of receiving the guitar. The person who was helping me didn't know anything about guitars, but someone in their department did and they'd show him when he came back into work. As soon as the guy looked at the pics/videos I got my refund. They're customer service is rock solid, at least for me it was.

Also, you have his personal information, right? Look him up on facebook, put his name or phone number or email into the search. Find out if he has a band or something or just peep his pictures. See if he posted any pics/videos of the amp showing it off. Screen shot it if he did. See if he's really trying to fuck you up.

 

[LanierP]

Ok guys,
First, thanks for all the Info and recommendations. Here’s where this is at. My store policy on Reverb is 1 week to return and item. So, with Reverb, this dude is out of luck. But, the sad thing here as some of you noted, PayPal has a much longer term for returning an item. Yesterday, he filed a claim with Paypal. Long story short, I will most likely have to refund this fucker the entire amount plus shipping. Yesterday, I went a full 12 rounds with this guy via Reverbs message feature. I offered to pay for a whole fucken set of new tubes. (Power tubes that is; and only the back 4 were broken). He refused. There’s a part of this story that I haven’t explained yet but am going to now, because I feel it’s important. This is the second time I’ve sent this Guy this amp. The first time was in late February. I shipped him the amp FedEx ground. The guy lives in San Antonio. The day I shipped out the amp to him, I sent him pix of the amp all boxed up, including a pic of the shipping label with tracking # and date of expected delivery. That same day he gave me 5 stars for feedback, which was weird because every one of my 40 or so sales on Reverb, the buyer waited till they get the goods before giving Feedback. I chalked it up to this dude must be a newbie on Reverb or whatever. What I failed to realize is that when you get feedback, that’s usually your notice that your gear arrived and the buyer is happy. No the kicker,,,,,nearly 3 weeks later, I get a message from him that says exactly this “I ordered this 17 days ago...Where is my Mesa 395 Simul-Class??
2/23/2018 - Friday
9:15 am Arrived at FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
2/22/2018 - Thursday
8:50 pm Left FedEx origin facility LONGWOOD, FL
4:09 pm Picked up LONGWOOD, FL
8:45 am Shipment information sent to FedEx”
So I am like WTF!, it’s been 3 weeks , and you are your just now letting me know it hasn’t arrived.
I call FedEx,,,they look into it and call me back saying they have lost the amp. This is when all the FedEx Bomber shit was going on in Texas, so not sure if that had something to do with it or not but FedEx had lost it. I refunded the guy the full amount and filed a claim with FedEx. Another week goes by and FedEx calls to say they have located it and are shipping it back to me. I get the amp back and it’s in fine shape, no issues. This guy messages me and asks if the amp was ever found and I told him yes. He wants to buy it again and give things another try.
So the reason I sent the amp 2 day Air was to be nice. I have a corporate account with FedEx and it was about 20 bucks more to go 2nd day Air. I even had FedEx pack and double box since the rule of thumb to my knowledge is that if you have it packed by FedEx, they are much more likely to cover a claim for damage.
Sorry for the dissertation guys, just wanted to get the whole story out there. This guy is fucking weird. Probably orders a ton of shit, and just let’s it sit in boxes around his house. Never had to deal with anybody like this in my 4 years of selling and buying on Reverb. I will say one thing. I have till the 28 of May to respond to PayPal regarding the claim against me, and I feel like taking every minute of it to give this guy a refund.!!!!
Len

 

[glpg80]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

 

[rstites]

I'd respond to paypal a little sooner and at least try to get them to refuse the the refund. I don't know if they're remotely reasonable on this or not, but worth a try. I haven't sold anything since they started these massive long return policies. Good luck. This sounds extremely fishy. If he'd gotten back to you immediately, it'd be somewhere understandable but a full refund for broken tubes is just stupid. I'm almost tempted to sell any future tube amps without tubes and let the buyer get whatever they want.

Still, tubes should easily survive inside a tube amp shipped around. They survive getting hauled all over the world just fine. Amp manufacturers ship their amps with tubes installed all the time too. Basically, I'm extremely suspect that the tubes were damaged when it arrived. I'm guessing it happened after the fact, or it's just a scam so he can make a return claim.

 

[mooncobra]

I think its very suspicious.

 

[paulyc]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

This. Block your funds, this guy is a fruit loop. SEVEN weeks ??? Unless he was traveling that's BS.

 

[phil b]

LanierP,
1st off this absolutely sucks balls that you have to deal with this nutcase!! A lot of guys mention to wipe your PP account so they cant take anything from you. While that is true, PP will still give this guy his refund and then hound you with collections and collection agencys for years. If its over $500 they can take you to court unless you decide to settle and make them an offer. The whole fuckin PP system is great for a buyer but its fucked if your a seller, (unless your a power seller with thousands of transactions). You can try and call a lawyer that deals with PP judgements,{there are quite a few actually}, and see if you have any recourse, but thats a whole other pain in the ass.

The best thing to do when selling on Reverb is only use their checkout option, which has nothing to do with PP and at least gives the seller some protection as well. 180 day returns really shouldnt apply to an individual who is a casual seller, but it does.Their complete TOS is somewhat vague as to what, if any protection a seller has for these exact situations. Whats worse is the people who work at PP making these decisions on these cases I swear cant tell the difference between a fucking guitar and a couch!!! Please follow up with the outcome and best of luck dealing with this shit...!!!!!

 

[Racerxrated]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

This. Block your funds, this guy is a fruit loop. SEVEN weeks ??? Unless he was traveling that's BS.

+2
Just shut PP down, It'll stop this BS. Of course you won't be able to PP anymore but screw him. Reverb processes cards without PP anyway.

 

[paulyc]

All of this is why I don't do PayPal, or Reverb for that matter. Either CC or Postal MO for deals out of town or cash in person.

 

[phil b]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

This. Block your funds, this guy is a fruit loop. SEVEN weeks ??? Unless he was traveling that's BS.

+2
Just shut PP down, It'll stop this BS. Of course you won't be able to PP anymore but screw him. Reverb processes cards without PP anyway.

It'll stop the payment, but Paypal will still refund the buyer and then go after the seller, which then goes to collections, which could then go to court. If it was just that simple to move the funds out of your Paypal account everyone would be doing it. They are in business to make money and the only loopholes are so the seller gets fucked.

 

[Racerxrated]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

This. Block your funds, this guy is a fruit loop. SEVEN weeks ??? Unless he was traveling that's BS.

+2
Just shut PP down, It'll stop this BS. Of course you won't be able to PP anymore but screw him. Reverb processes cards without PP anyway.

It'll stop the payment, but Paypal will still refund the buyer and then go after the seller, which then goes to collections, which could then go to court. If it was just that simple to move the funds out of your Paypal account everyone would be doing it. They are in business to make money and the only loopholes are so the seller gets fucked.

True. I never received an amp back, the tracking number the buyer gave never tracked. My pp account showed a negative -1300 balance. I brought this up to ebay, never heard back. It was nuts. No amp ever showed up, and I then shut down PP to protect my bank account. Every time I received an email I responded and explained the fact I never got my amp back. Didn't matter. So it didn't matter to me anymore either when I shut pp off from accessing my bank.
No court, not even a hit on my credit. I assumed they wrote it off? But I never received an email explaining that.

This all happened 5 yrs ago.

 

[paulyc]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

This. Block your funds, this guy is a fruit loop. SEVEN weeks ??? Unless he was traveling that's BS.

+2
Just shut PP down, It'll stop this BS. Of course you won't be able to PP anymore but screw him. Reverb processes cards without PP anyway.

It'll stop the payment, but Paypal will still refund the buyer and then go after the seller, which then goes to collections, which could then go to court. If it was just that simple to move the funds out of your Paypal account everyone would be doing it. They are in business to make money and the only loopholes are so the seller gets fucked.

I'd rather pay a lawyer to defend me against PayPal than give that creep the satisfaction he held onto my stuff for SEVEN weeks before he spoke up, especially given the expanded history between the 2 guys (buyer and seller), but that's just me... but just more reason for me to never, ever use PayPal. That return policy is silly, totally protects the buyer and fucks over the seller. No thanks

 

[phil b]

You can file a claim with paypal all you want, but if you put a blockcheck on them with your bank, paypal cannot do anything if the funds are sitting in your account.

I'd literally buy the dude a set of the shittiest quality matched set of tubes I could find and tell him to pound sand. 7 weeks and there's no telling what could have been done to it in the meantime. You may not have a working amplifier when it returns.

This. Block your funds, this guy is a fruit loop. SEVEN weeks ??? Unless he was traveling that's BS.

+2
Just shut PP down, It'll stop this BS. Of course you won't be able to PP anymore but screw him. Reverb processes cards without PP anyway.

It'll stop the payment, but Paypal will still refund the buyer and then go after the seller, which then goes to collections, which could then go to court. If it was just that simple to move the funds out of your Paypal account everyone would be doing it. They are in business to make money and the only loopholes are so the seller gets fucked.

I'd rather pay a lawyer to defend me against PayPal than give that creep the satisfaction he held onto my stuff for SEVEN weeks before he spoke up, especially given the expanded history between the 2 guys (buyer and seller), but that's just me... but just more reason for me to never, ever use PayPal. That return policy is silly, totally protects the buyer and fucks over the seller. No thanks

And this is exactly what the problem is with Paypals policy. MOST people would think like you are. I sure as hell did when I got screwed by them. The reality is that when using Paypal you are agreeing to that 180 day bullshit and also agree to accept whatever arbitration and decisions they make in any case as final. I literally told them to go fuck themselves after I pulled out all my money in the account. 2-3 years later I was still getting letters and phone calls. Told them I would set the money on fire before I paid them a dime. My dispute was just under $500 so no court notices. That would depend on the agency who buys the debt and how aggressive they are for debts over $500.
I just hate to see people like the OP basically get fucked by this douchebag buyer, and Paypal is basically giving him a license to steal.

 

[paulyc]

A good attorney could make a very strong argument given the history and the seven week delay, despite what PP says. Even better if said attorney is a buddy, relative, etc...that will work for a reduced rate or free.

 

[LanierP]

Hey guys,
Had to call Reverb and tell them to turn off this fuckers messages today. The asshole started resorting to 3rd grade name calling and rubbing my nose into the shit about PayPal’s 180 day policy. I called Paypal today as well and explained to them the whole ordeal. Told them I will refund the guy but under the condition that he 1.) provide pictures of every side of the amp and the boxes (it was double boxed) that it was shipped in. 2.) provide picture proof that the amp has been shipped back to me with a valid and initialized trackin #. I figure that I must try to ensure I get the amp back at the very least. What a piece of work this guy is. And so that nobody else gets fucked by this dude (he was actually twisting the knife with his messages guys), he’s out of San Antonio Tx and goes by Fernando. Not going to put his last name here but this guy has worked me over on this, and it just sucks donkey balls. Talk about feeling helpless. Paypal really sucks from a sellers point and I am pulling the chalks with them going forward. Too much risk of being screwed.
Len