Whatever happened to the Cameron CCM-100?
- Thread starter JCDenton6
- Start date
"I do remember Chris said it was just a few component changes."
Yeah, I wouldn't beat up Rob...too much on using the MODded JCM800 as a base...if that was the "tone" they were after and never released, but I understand other's point that whatever those two produced, they want THAT amp.
Now, as far as the design for the CCM...I thought also it was "just a few component changes from CCV and a Jose-based design and 3 gain stages + CF base design. However, after hearing that/those clips, I don't think that is the case...or at least in ONE of the CCM's produced. Now, you can get a shit ton of sound out of a 3 gain + CF design, but that clip of the CCM and that everyone like sounds to me like based on the Aldrich v.2 design with 4 gain stages and NO CF! Further, if you're for 2 designs and one old school and the other modern, that would make sense.
If you look at the photos and videos out there, I noted in one video, the CCM appeared to have "clipping" controls in the master/solo area (like the CCV), while the other did not! As with the Aldrich design, no clippers or voltage clamp is needed as there is just literally a shit ton of gain on top. Soo, between this and my good ears, I can draw the conclusion that the CCM is the 4 gain stage design.
That would mean the CCM would be based on the Old Bitch design (thou Mark's 100% design has 12-15 changes from the one Dave Friedman and you guys released in the collaboration effort). I had #4 and after it was "fix", the amp was crushing. I sold it to a major heavy metal guitar player everyone knows!
I ONLY sold it because I wanted multi-channels, FX loop, slave out, solo pot, etc. and as an amp builder and designer, I'm going to build that up. THAT is "my" tone and the amp I'm personally have been looking for, but I believe that the two CCM units produced are different and the Aldrich v.2 was the design for the CCM.
My $0.02
Yeah, I wouldn't beat up Rob...too much on using the MODded JCM800 as a base...if that was the "tone" they were after and never released, but I understand other's point that whatever those two produced, they want THAT amp.
Now, as far as the design for the CCM...I thought also it was "just a few component changes from CCV and a Jose-based design and 3 gain stages + CF base design. However, after hearing that/those clips, I don't think that is the case...or at least in ONE of the CCM's produced. Now, you can get a shit ton of sound out of a 3 gain + CF design, but that clip of the CCM and that everyone like sounds to me like based on the Aldrich v.2 design with 4 gain stages and NO CF! Further, if you're for 2 designs and one old school and the other modern, that would make sense.
If you look at the photos and videos out there, I noted in one video, the CCM appeared to have "clipping" controls in the master/solo area (like the CCV), while the other did not! As with the Aldrich design, no clippers or voltage clamp is needed as there is just literally a shit ton of gain on top. Soo, between this and my good ears, I can draw the conclusion that the CCM is the 4 gain stage design.
That would mean the CCM would be based on the Old Bitch design (thou Mark's 100% design has 12-15 changes from the one Dave Friedman and you guys released in the collaboration effort). I had #4 and after it was "fix", the amp was crushing. I sold it to a major heavy metal guitar player everyone knows!
I ONLY sold it because I wanted multi-channels, FX loop, slave out, solo pot, etc. and as an amp builder and designer, I'm going to build that up. THAT is "my" tone and the amp I'm personally have been looking for, but I believe that the two CCM units produced are different and the Aldrich v.2 was the design for the CCM.My $0.02
glip22
Well-known member
Don't think so. CCM had a Fenderish clean channel. It's possible the gain side was more like an old Fender amp Mark modded that has haunted Nicks dreams since he was over at Mark's and played it. The CCM was more along those lines. More on the Boogie side. Buy anyway you heard from some guys that were around during the Chris days and others who worked close with Mark that he could not remember it. You can go to the bank with that. Listen at 27. I know what I am talkng aboutEqu1nox":30nleh15 said:"I do remember Chris said it was just a few component changes."
Yeah, I wouldn't beat up Rob...too much on using the MODded JCM800 as a base...if that was the "tone" they were after and never released, but I understand other's point that whatever those two produced, they want THAT amp.
Now, as far as the design for the CCM...I thought also it was "just a few component changes from CCV and a Jose-based design and 3 gain stages + CF base design. However, after hearing that/those clips, I don't think that is the case...or at least in ONE of the CCM's produced. Now, you can get a shit ton of sound out of a 3 gain + CF design, but that clip of the CCM and that everyone like sounds to me like based on the Aldrich v.2 design with 4 gain stages and NO CF! Further, if you're for 2 designs and one old school and the other modern, that would make sense.
If you look at the photos and videos out there, I noted in one video, the CCM appeared to have "clipping" controls in the master/solo area (like the CCV), while the other did not! As with the Aldrich design, no clippers or voltage clamp is needed as there is just literally a shit ton of gain on top. Soo, between this and my good ears, I can draw the conclusion that the CCM is the 4 gain stage design.
That would mean the CCM would be based on the Old Bitch design (thou Mark's 100% design has 12-15 changes from the one Dave Friedman and you guys released in the collaboration effort). I had #4 and after it was "fix", the amp was crushing. I sold it to a major heavy metal guitar player everyone knows!
My $0.02
What do you hear Mark say?...here is the link I was referring to (listen starting at 1:13). It is a 2009 CCM in snakeskin and although it has brights on the gains (along with presence and punch), there is NO zener clipping switches on the master(s)! This is EXACTLY how the Old Bitch sounded AFTER it was fixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH8jTBOUyVw
Mark says at :27 the CCM is more "Boogie" and thicker with more "hair"
My clip, there are no zener clippers switches on the snake skin version. The Damage, Inc. and other video does. As indicated...there was some work in process, but besides to keep manufacturing similar with the same design (CCV) and just change components, there are two "base" designs by Mark...the 3 gain + CF (Vintage) and 4 gain and no CF (Modern) designs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH8jTBOUyVw
Mark says at :27 the CCM is more "Boogie" and thicker with more "hair"
My clip, there are no zener clippers switches on the snake skin version. The Damage, Inc. and other video does. As indicated...there was some work in process, but besides to keep manufacturing similar with the same design (CCV) and just change components, there are two "base" designs by Mark...the 3 gain + CF (Vintage) and 4 gain and no CF (Modern) designs!
Yes Rob, I'm SURE that Marshall, Fender, Diezel, Mesa Boogie, Randall, Egnater, Peavey, etc...all sit around starting off a platform and switching components around and then adding features...they wouldn't bother to hire EEs (that would be Electrical Engineers) to design a product or anything...maybe that's how SOME of the smaller guys do it, but I assure you the "big boys" don't do it that way.Tone Merchant":2dh751b5 said:paulyc":2dh751b5 said:
Well no, you didnt get it right. Mark couldnt remember what the CCM was and from talking to Mark and chris schmidt, it wasn't different sonically enough to really pursue. And we thought it would be better to go in a more heavy direction. You have to remember, the the CCM was never released and was as Mark stated a work in progress, so we could change anything we want on it.
I asked Mark for something ultra heavy and tight and he worked on a JCM 800 and presented it to me and I thought what he did there was the FOUNDATION of something really cool. See Pauly, that's how amp design works. You take a platform like a JCM800 or a designers existing model and start playing around for countless hours of component changes and then swapping a bunch of transformers and it goes on and on and on for weeks and months until you have something cool. Once you have that sound you wanted to create, then you start really designing the amp and figuring out features and adding other channels etc. How did you think the design process works? Every amp ever designed, started on another platform. How do you think Marshall started out? They took a fender Bassman and started the process I just described and the rest is history.
paulyc":1xc33tug said:Yes Rob, I'm SURE that Marshall, Fender, Diezel, Mesa Boogie, Randall, Egnater, Peavey, etc...all sit around starting off a platform and switching components around and then adding features...they wouldn't bother to hire EEs (that would be Electrical Engineers) to design a product or anything...maybe that's how SOME of the smaller guys do it, but I assure you the "big boys" don't do it that way.Tone Merchant":1xc33tug said:paulyc":1xc33tug said:
Well no, you didnt get it right. Mark couldnt remember what the CCM was and from talking to Mark and chris schmidt, it wasn't different sonically enough to really pursue. And we thought it would be better to go in a more heavy direction. You have to remember, the the CCM was never released and was as Mark stated a work in progress, so we could change anything we want on it.
I asked Mark for something ultra heavy and tight and he worked on a JCM 800 and presented it to me and I thought what he did there was the FOUNDATION of something really cool. See Pauly, that's how amp design works. You take a platform like a JCM800 or a designers existing model and start playing around for countless hours of component changes and then swapping a bunch of transformers and it goes on and on and on for weeks and months until you have something cool. Once you have that sound you wanted to create, then you start really designing the amp and figuring out features and adding other channels etc. How did you think the design process works? Every amp ever designed, started on another platform. How do you think Marshall started out? They took a fender Bassman and started the process I just described and the rest is history.
Ummm.....not to be an ass, but both Marshall and Boogie started with Fender circuits.
peterc52
Well-known member
jcj":1ux8yykw said:paulyc":1ux8yykw said:Yes Rob, I'm SURE that Marshall, Fender, Diezel, Mesa Boogie, Randall, Egnater, Peavey, etc...all sit around starting off a platform and switching components around and then adding features...they wouldn't bother to hire EEs (that would be Electrical Engineers) to design a product or anything...maybe that's how SOME of the smaller guys do it, but I assure you the "big boys" don't do it that way.Tone Merchant":1ux8yykw said:paulyc":1ux8yykw said:
Well no, you didnt get it right. Mark couldnt remember what the CCM was and from talking to Mark and chris schmidt, it wasn't different sonically enough to really pursue. And we thought it would be better to go in a more heavy direction. You have to remember, the the CCM was never released and was as Mark stated a work in progress, so we could change anything we want on it.
I asked Mark for something ultra heavy and tight and he worked on a JCM 800 and presented it to me and I thought what he did there was the FOUNDATION of something really cool. See Pauly, that's how amp design works. You take a platform like a JCM800 or a designers existing model and start playing around for countless hours of component changes and then swapping a bunch of transformers and it goes on and on and on for weeks and months until you have something cool. Once you have that sound you wanted to create, then you start really designing the amp and figuring out features and adding other channels etc. How did you think the design process works? Every amp ever designed, started on another platform. How do you think Marshall started out? They took a fender Bassman and started the process I just described and the rest is history.
Ummm.....not to be an ass, but both Marshall and Boogie started with Fender circuits.
And diezel started by modding old marshalls.
Guitarnobody
New member
peterc52":dfumk8zl said:
So did Jose, Friedman, Cameron, Larry, Metro, Fortin... Etc, etc
marshallmadness
Member
paulyc":3lxm4mj9 said:
To Be honest the whole DIY revolution has changed the game a bit. In years gone by I would say a lot more amps were engineered. I'm sure the major players in the amp game like Fender and Marshall still are but I would bet there is more than one company around that's simply modding existing designs and putting them in their own packaging. Hell I could start an amp company tomorrow by doing that if I wanted to.
Yes, I agree...but that wasn't my point...modifying an existing platform isn't the only way to do the job, and it's not an efficient way for the majors to do it...I thought Rob was a wee bit condescending in his answer to my question about the intentions behind putting out "anything" and calling it a Cameron CCM...
psychodave
Well-known member
I'm one of the few lucky people to have played a CCM. It is/was a cool amp, but is super bright sounding. I'm not sure if the speakers in the cab were broken in or not. When I did that PG clip, the CCV sounded incredible in the room, but the CCM recorded so much better.
On a side note, in the video you see Joe Cofe (spelling?) laughing as he comes into the video. If memory serves me, it was the second introduction take and everyone was hysterical in laughter. Then recoding started agin and it went back to being serious. Joe was a really nice guy.
I understand that Mark still knows what was done to make the CCM. No worries though as Mark seems to be able to create and make some killer stuff.
On a side note, in the video you see Joe Cofe (spelling?) laughing as he comes into the video. If memory serves me, it was the second introduction take and everyone was hysterical in laughter. Then recoding started agin and it went back to being serious. Joe was a really nice guy.
I understand that Mark still knows what was done to make the CCM. No worries though as Mark seems to be able to create and make some killer stuff.
psychodave
Well-known member
paulyc":37uxlgi1 said:
The clips with Mark are very cool, but the recording device and angle have a lot to do with some of the sound. That Lay it Down clip I posted has that same crunchy sound as the NAMM videos of Mark. The official videos that they out out in the Cameron venture are very cool as well.
psychodave
Well-known member
jcj":3jw7ghz9 said:What's up, Dave?
Hey. All is good here. Hope things are well on your end. I was going to shoot you a text a month or so ago, but didn't for fear you would think I was nutty. lol
psychodave":1qjsiw8j said:jcj":1qjsiw8j said:What's up, Dave?
Hey. All is good here. Hope things are well on your end. I was going to shoot you a text a month or so ago, but didn't for fear you would think I was nutty. lol
Fire away, buddy!
Just saw the post in the main forum...I don't get around here nearly as much as I used to, but still a fun place to visit.
Glad to have you back!