Mesa MKIIc+ Longheads

Wizard of Ozz":21930nsv said:
Whowantsamustache":21930nsv said:
The long heads were probably made to accommodate the coliseum which makes sense. I tried finding anything about the difference between the short and long and literally EXPcustom is the only one hyping it up. Everyone else says there is no difference.

He obviously loves being the one with the rare artist owned amps that are impossible to get.

And yeah I remember these guys hyping up that Mike B was retiring years ago just to sell those $3000 eq racks.. :LOL: :LOL:

Edit:

And after just looking at the layout of my short head iic++ and my mark iii coli long head, the first pre amp tube on both are located exaclty tight up next to the output transformer.
Click to expand...


+1000000 Indeed.

This is what the extra $2-3000 for a long chassis buys you:

giphy.gif


:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Click to expand...

You guys might want to look at gut shots of a long and short chassis IIC+. You can see the long head has more room to space out the components. It's not like its just a big empty space on one side. :doh:
 
EXPcustom":17fk9lbh said:
Wizard of Ozz":17fk9lbh said:
Whowantsamustache":17fk9lbh said:
The long heads were probably made to accommodate the coliseum which makes sense. I tried finding anything about the difference between the short and long and literally EXPcustom is the only one hyping it up. Everyone else says there is no difference.

He obviously loves being the one with the rare artist owned amps that are impossible to get.

And yeah I remember these guys hyping up that Mike B was retiring years ago just to sell those $3000 eq racks.. :LOL: :LOL:

Edit:

And after just looking at the layout of my short head iic++ and my mark iii coli long head, the first pre amp tube on both are located exaclty tight up next to the output transformer.
Click to expand...


+1000000 Indeed.

This is what the extra $2-3000 for a long chassis buys you:

giphy.gif


:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Click to expand...

You guys might want to look at gut shots of a long and short chassis IIC+. You can see the long head has more room to space out the components. It's not like its just a big empty space on one side. :doh:
Click to expand...

But... but... you said the preamp layout and fx loop are arranged differently...which is absolutely false.

The only extra space is where the power section and filter caps are. That’s literally it. Everything else is the same.
 
Whowantsamustache":o9hptare said:
EXPcustom":o9hptare said:
Wizard of Ozz":o9hptare said:
Whowantsamustache":o9hptare said:
The long heads were probably made to accommodate the coliseum which makes sense. I tried finding anything about the difference between the short and long and literally EXPcustom is the only one hyping it up. Everyone else says there is no difference.

He obviously loves being the one with the rare artist owned amps that are impossible to get.

And yeah I remember these guys hyping up that Mike B was retiring years ago just to sell those $3000 eq racks.. :LOL: :LOL:

Edit:

And after just looking at the layout of my short head iic++ and my mark iii coli long head, the first pre amp tube on both are located exaclty tight up next to the output transformer.
Click to expand...


+1000000 Indeed.

This is what the extra $2-3000 for a long chassis buys you:



:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Click to expand...

You guys might want to look at gut shots of a long and short chassis IIC+. You can see the long head has more room to space out the components. It's not like its just a big empty space on one side. :doh:
Click to expand...

But... but... you said the preamp layout and fx loop are arranged differently...which is absolutely false.

The only extra space is where the power section and filter caps are. That’s literally it. Everything else is the same.
Click to expand...

I said in an amp layout things like that can effect tone in general just to give a few examples. Relocating things like power section and isolating them further away prevents interefernce from nearby components. Running wires too close to the preamp board as well can cause issues.

I am sure if I was wrong the market would dictate that, like short and long heads would sell for the same price. You like that right? Free market? Or are you some sort of commie that thinks all amps should be the same price?
 
I know Bendinelli during the process of modding the hell out of my MK III said at one point said he had an idea when I wanted more that he would move the wiring and rearrange how the amp was dressed in effect to alter what was happening...supporting what Jason is saying, lead dress matters.

NOW POST SOME PICS :doh:
 
EXPcustom":3fns6zk8 said:
Whowantsamustache":3fns6zk8 said:
EXPcustom":3fns6zk8 said:
Wizard of Ozz":3fns6zk8 said:
Whowantsamustache":3fns6zk8 said:
The long heads were probably made to accommodate the coliseum which makes sense. I tried finding anything about the difference between the short and long and literally EXPcustom is the only one hyping it up. Everyone else says there is no difference.

He obviously loves being the one with the rare artist owned amps that are impossible to get.

And yeah I remember these guys hyping up that Mike B was retiring years ago just to sell those $3000 eq racks.. :LOL: :LOL:

Edit:

And after just looking at the layout of my short head iic++ and my mark iii coli long head, the first pre amp tube on both are located exaclty tight up next to the output transformer.
Click to expand...


+1000000 Indeed.

This is what the extra $2-3000 for a long chassis buys you:



:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Click to expand...

You guys might want to look at gut shots of a long and short chassis IIC+. You can see the long head has more room to space out the components. It's not like its just a big empty space on one side. :doh:
Click to expand...

But... but... you said the preamp layout and fx loop are arranged differently...which is absolutely false.

The only extra space is where the power section and filter caps are. That’s literally it. Everything else is the same.
Click to expand...

I said in an amp layout things like that can effect tone in general just to give a few examples. Relocating things like power section and isolating them further away prevents interefernce from nearby components. Running wires too close to the preamp board as well can cause issues.

I am sure if I was wrong the market would dictate that, like short and long heads would sell for the same price. You like that right? Free market? Or are you some sort of commie that thinks all amps should be the same price?
Click to expand...

:LOL: :LOL: you and your commie remarks are hilarious. The price is the price because there are less of them and more forum hype then usual.

Dude just admit you like to cork sniff. You have all the artist owned amps down to a T. And I’m happy for you.

But give me a break. The amp layout for the preamp, power amp and fx loop are near identical.

The long chassis is to accomadate the coliseum, which I say will kick your regular long head iic+’s ass :LOL: :LOL:

I would pay the extra money for the coliseum but not for the extra 2 inches of air your claim the regular iic+ long head can do. :doh:
 
Has anyone here actually compared a long and short head side by side, where everything else is the same except long vs short? I know it’s a long shot, but I’m curious. I feel like without any side by side comparisons it’s too hard to really say if the long heads really sound better or not

For what it’s worth, I have a mark iii coliseum (no stripe) and it already sounded quite close to my mark iic+ hrg as is, but once it came back from Mike B with the ++ mod it sounds better than my iic+ HRG in every way. My blue stripe coliseums that have the ++ mod still weren’t as good as my iic+, but this no stripe with it is hands down the best mark amp I’ve tried
 
EXPcustom":hjy5yhzy said:
You guys might want to look at gut shots of a long and short chassis IIC+. You can see the long head has more room to space out the components. It's not like its just a big empty space on one side. :doh:
Click to expand...


Actually you might want to look at the giant pic posted above in this thread... or maybe you don't know what you're looking at... and just blindly regurgitating mis-information.
:confused:

Anywho... see the 3 30uf/500V filter caps... they are for the preamp... not the power amp... see the 4 220uf/300V axial caps stacked 2 on top of each other, 2X2 on each side of the board... the 4 220uf caps are for the power amp... that's why the 3 30uf caps are moved to the preamp board in all later versions like the MKIII/MKIV and Rectos. To reduce noise. See all the extra pcbs in MKII/MKIIC+ and the little ones mounted to the side of chassis vertically with foam/double sided tape... that's not an ideal design... far from it. The more wire, joints, pcbs, and stuff there is inside the more the signal is degraded and the worse your sound will be. You are running the signal back and forth in the MKIIC amps and earlier due to working with the outdated layout. The shortest distance possible between components is best. Ask you're buddy Mark. So from a pure design, layout, and engineering stand point you're arguing a losing battle. The pics tell all.

Stick to telling people your amps were celebrity owned. That way they won't feel so bad after getting @$$ raped. Tell 'em: Well see here, Michael Jackson once put his bottle of jerry-curl activator right here... on this very MKIIC+ long head.
:yes: :yes: :yes:
 
Wizard of Ozz":2dc03p34 said:
EXPcustom":2dc03p34 said:
You guys might want to look at gut shots of a long and short chassis IIC+. You can see the long head has more room to space out the components. It's not like its just a big empty space on one side. :doh:
Click to expand...


Actually you might want to look at the giant pic posted above in this thread... or maybe you don't know what you're looking at... and just blindly regurgitating mis-information.
:confused:

Anywho... see the 3 30uf/500V filter caps... they are for the preamp... not the power amp... see the 4 220uf/300V axial caps stacked 2 on top of each other, 2X2 on each side of the board... the 4 220uf caps are for the power amp... that's why the 3 30uf caps are moved to the preamp board in all later versions like the MKIII/MKIV and Rectos. To reduce noise. See all the extra pcbs in MKII/MKIIC+ and the little ones mounted to the side of chassis vertically with foam/double sided tape... that's not an ideal design... far from it. The more wire, joints, pcbs, and stuff there is inside the more the signal is degraded and the worse your sound will be. You are running the signal back and forth in the MKIIC amps and earlier due to working with the outdated layout. The shortest distance possible between components is best. Ask you're buddy Mark. So from a pure design, layout, and engineering stand point you're arguing a losing battle. The pics tell all.

Stick to telling people your amps were celebrity owned. That way they won't feel so bad after getting @$$ raped. Tell 'em: Well see here, Michael Jackson once put his bottle of jerry-curl activator right here... on this very MKIIC+ long head.
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Click to expand...


Once again resorting to personal attacks over my opinion on the layout of an amp can change the tone slightly. Does that mean every single longhead sounds better than a short, no because Mesa amps from that time are pretty inconsistent, maybe yours sounds better than mine. Till we side by side them we'll never know for sure. I just think your odds of getting a better sounding head with less noise and ghost noting etc would be with a better laid out long head.

Fact is long heads fetch more money on the second hand market when the short chassis are selling for the same price you can tell me "I told you so". I wish long heads went for short chassis prices, if I could wave a wand to make that happen I would but no one really cares about the short chassis as they do with the long chassis as we can see from past sales and current Ebay listings. I have no control over that.

I am not the guy on Ebay selling the longhead so I don't know why your trying to make the Micheal Jackson joke, also I haven't sold a "celebrity owned" amp on Ebay or Reverb, I think you and the communist member here are confusing me with someone else? :doh:
 
braintheory":2opt0prj said:
Has anyone here actually compared a long and short head side by side, where everything else is the same except long vs short? I know it’s a long shot, but I’m curious. I feel like without any side by side comparisons it’s too hard to really say if the long heads really sound better or not

For what it’s worth, I have a mark iii coliseum (no stripe) and it already sounded quite close to my mark iic+ hrg as is, but once it came back from Mike B with the ++ mod it sounds better than my iic+ HRG in every way. My blue stripe coliseums that have the ++ mod still weren’t as good as my iic+, but this no stripe with it is hands down the best mark amp I’ve tried
Click to expand...

I maybe able to arrange something in the Bay Area and post clips... I will probably need Exo-Metals help.
 
EXPcustom":33kd81mz said:
braintheory":33kd81mz said:
Has anyone here actually compared a long and short head side by side, where everything else is the same except long vs short? I know it’s a long shot, but I’m curious. I feel like without any side by side comparisons it’s too hard to really say if the long heads really sound better or not

For what it’s worth, I have a mark iii coliseum (no stripe) and it already sounded quite close to my mark iic+ hrg as is, but once it came back from Mike B with the ++ mod it sounds better than my iic+ HRG in every way. My blue stripe coliseums that have the ++ mod still weren’t as good as my iic+, but this no stripe with it is hands down the best mark amp I’ve tried
Click to expand...

I maybe able to arrange something in the Bay Area and post clips... I will probably need Exo-Metals help.
Click to expand...
That would be very cool to hear a comparison clip. Any comparison between 2 different Mark iic+’s would be very interesting regardless of short or long heads.

This thread did make me wonder if my no stripe coliseum sounds better than my mark iic+ partly because of it being a longer head, but I’m guessing it mostly just because of its extra horsepower and transformer. Either way, it’s ended my gas for other Mark series amps. I think getting early no stripes and having Mike B mod them to a ++ might be the best way to go with these things

My blue stripe colis that were modded to ++ have a little tighter bottom end and more sparkly, fendery cleans, but I like the no stripe better in every other way and the ++ modded blue stripes still don’t nail the iic+ voicing like my ++ modded no stripe
 
braintheory":jdc6915w said:
EXPcustom":jdc6915w said:
braintheory":jdc6915w said:
Has anyone here actually compared a long and short head side by side, where everything else is the same except long vs short? I know it’s a long shot, but I’m curious. I feel like without any side by side comparisons it’s too hard to really say if the long heads really sound better or not

For what it’s worth, I have a mark iii coliseum (no stripe) and it already sounded quite close to my mark iic+ hrg as is, but once it came back from Mike B with the ++ mod it sounds better than my iic+ HRG in every way. My blue stripe coliseums that have the ++ mod still weren’t as good as my iic+, but this no stripe with it is hands down the best mark amp I’ve tried
Click to expand...

I maybe able to arrange something in the Bay Area and post clips... I will probably need Exo-Metals help.
Click to expand...
That would be very cool to hear a comparison clip. Any comparison between 2 different Mark iic+’s would be very interesting regardless of short or long heads.

This thread did make me wonder if my no stripe coliseum sounds better than my mark iic+ partly because of it being a longer head, but I’m guessing it mostly just because of its extra horsepower and transformer. Either way, it’s ended my gas for other Mark series amps. I think getting early no stripes and having Mike B mod them to a ++ might be the best way to go with these things

My blue stripe colis that were modded to ++ have a little tighter bottom end and more sparkly, fendery cleans, but I like the no stripe better in every other way and the ++ modded blue stripes still don’t nail the iic+ voicing like my ++ modded no stripe
Click to expand...

Dang man! I had no idea we had nearly identical rigs! I have a Blue Stripe Coliseum and a No Stripe Coliseum that’s been “plussed up”!

I’ve been saying for years that the closest I’ve found to a Mark IIC+ is a Mark III Coliseum, IMHO of course, but I always assumed that part of the reason why it’s so close is the overlapping Coliseum Transformers. I’d love to compare a Mark III Coliseum to a Mark IIC+ Coliseum, but I haven’t had the opportunity to find a IIC+ Coliseum “in the wild” yet.

In both my Coliseums, there’s a touch sensitivity that my “normal” Mark IIIs haven’t had, even when comparing the same exact stripes, including the over-the-top-aggro Blue Stripes. But, the No Stripe has a smoothness to it, but still sounds aggressive.
 
JimAnsell":84tig6pl said:
ik0xDDA.jpg

here is #14167. late run long head in white with matching 4x12 i had this for a while, a sold it here i think.
which one of you has it now?
Click to expand...

That looks awesome Jim! Is that behemoth set up in the kids playroom?? :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

I’d love to find an older, white Mesa 4x12 Half-Back for my white Mark III Coli! For now, I have to “slum it” with a black 4x12...



FULL DISCLOSURE: Just so no one is confused, my amps above are NOT Mark IIC+ Coliseums; the amps above are Mark III++ Coliseums. You can tell by the Mark IVs cowering in the back of the pic.
 
Racerxrated":loz32m1u said:
NewWorldMan":loz32m1u said:
braintheory":loz32m1u said:
Has anyone here actually compared a long and short head side by side, where everything else is the same except long vs short?
Click to expand...

Yes...

https://ibb.co/g0m9Zd
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on the tonal differences, if any, between the two?
Click to expand...

I usually don't weigh in too much on the shit storm posts (or at all)... :LOL: :LOL: , but I'll chime in with my $0.02 on some things mentioned in the thread.

In regards to the Mesa rack EQs mentioned here, Dave is on point. High dollar, but worth the money and exactly as advertised. There's only a handful made that don't reside in Metallica HQ. I didn't buy mine on a forum. I purchased mine directly from Mike when he offered me one. Wasn't something I was seeking out, didn't realize I needed it, but don't regret it and can't imagine it not being in my rack now.

In regards to IIC+ heads, I had a few back in the day, then moved on over the years (most folks know I'm a huge Recto fan). I got a great deal one day many years later on an '85 Mark III (no stripe, 105 PT), and that rekindled my interest in the IIC+ again. So, I started seeking them out.

At one point, I had three '85 Mark III (no stripe, 105 PT) heads and I went through about 20+ or so IIC+ heads trying them all out looking for a few to keep. John Pace here probably remembers me seemingly getting a new one every week... :D I lost count, but know at one stage I had at least 7 of them stacked up side by side for comparison.

My personal favorites ended up being Simul-Class models with the 105 PT. I can say I could tell no differences because something was a short or long head. But, I can also say that no two sounded exactly alike, even with the same tubes. It's just the nature of old amps. They all age differently.

I ended up keeping a pair I liked best (pictured above), one short head, one long head. The long head is actually now a ++. If I only kept one of them, I'd probably keep the short head C+. It's been my favorite C+ I've owned. As much as I love the ++, there's something special (to me) with that standard C+ running a 6L6/EL34 mix.

As for the value, I think some people would be surprised. I personally would not pay the money being asked these days for some of the C+ heads, but I've had numerous offers on mine over time, and almost exclusive interest has been on the long head. I don't personally value it as anything more than the short head, but I recently (within the last 2 months) had a local cash offer of $5k for it.
 
NewWorldMan":1s3rv60b said:
Racerxrated":1s3rv60b said:
NewWorldMan":1s3rv60b said:
braintheory":1s3rv60b said:
Has anyone here actually compared a long and short head side by side, where everything else is the same except long vs short?
Click to expand...

Yes...

https://ibb.co/g0m9Zd
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on the tonal differences, if any, between the two?
Click to expand...

I usually don't weigh in too much on the shit storm posts (or at all)... :LOL: :LOL: , but I'll chime in with my $0.02 on some things mentioned in the thread.

In regards to the Mesa rack EQs mentioned here, Dave is on point. High dollar, but worth the money and exactly as advertised. There's only a handful made that don't reside in Metallica HQ. I didn't buy mine on a forum. I purchased mine directly from Mike when he offered me one. Wasn't something I was seeking out, didn't realize I needed it, but don't regret it and can't imagine it not being in my rack now.

In regards to IIC+ heads, I had a few back in the day, then moved on over the years (most folks know I'm a huge Recto fan). I got a great deal one day many years later on an '85 Mark III (no stripe, 105 PT), and that rekindled my interest in the IIC+ again. So, I started seeking them out.

At one point, I had three '85 Mark III (no stripe, 105 PT) heads and I went through about 20+ or so IIC+ heads trying them all out looking for a few to keep. John Pace here probably remembers me seemingly getting a new one every week... :D I lost count, but know at one stage I had at least 7 of them stacked up side by side for comparison.

My personal favorites ended up being Simul-Class models with the 105 PT. I can say I could tell no differences because something was a short or long head. But, I can also say that no two sounded exactly alike, even with the same tubes. It's just the nature of old amps. They all age differently.

I ended up keeping a pair I liked best (pictured above), one short head, one long head. The long head is actually now a ++. If I only kept one of them, I'd probably keep the short head C+. It's been my favorite C+ I've owned. As much as I love the ++, there's something special (to me) with that standard C+ running a 6L6/EL34 mix.

As for the value, I think some people would be surprised. I personally would not pay the money being asked these days for some of the C+ heads, but I've had numerous offers on mine over time, and almost exclusive interest has been on the long head. I don't personally value it as anything more than the short head, but I recently (within the last 2 months) had a local cash offer of $5k for it.
Click to expand...

I knew you had 4-5 at one time. Didn’t know you went through 20 of them. :LOL: :LOL:

$5k. Take it and run. :D
 
psychodave":lenblkfv said:
I knew you had 4-5 at one time. Didn’t know you went through 20 of them. :LOL: :LOL:

$5k. Take it and run. :D
Click to expand...

John told me the same thing :LOL: :LOL: I was ready to pull the trigger and dump it, but ended up keeping it. Sad part is I partially kept it because I've been through so much damn gear, I really have no idea what I'd even spend the money on. I've kept a short list of things I like and don't really need/want much else (blasphemy, I know). I figured money or not, may as well keep something I know I like.
 
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