Why is Sm57 the industry standard?

[SpiderWars]

I noticed this the last band I was in where I also ran sound from stage. I gathered everybody's SM57's which was probably 6 or 7 (4 were mine) and tested all of them. The differences were often very noticeable but not as drastic as that clip. I thought one in particular sounded best. One was a complete dud with very low output. I assume that one was defective/damaged so don't really count it as a fair rep.

It really made getting my tone right much easier and more consistent. It was the inconsistent tone (especially top end) that led me to test them all in the first place.

 

[Smash]

But the big boys are often just using a 57 and spend hours putting it in the right spot to fit the tone they want: there’s gotta be a reason, right?

I really hope there is a reason. Because I get fucking awesome transparent tones with my mic setup that takes me less time than turning on my amp and pedals. The whole point for me of micing is to share what my amp sounds like in the room. I am not trying to color my tone with a goddamned mic, lol. If it helps people to cut using a certain mic, that is great I suppose. But I doubt an engineer would have much more trouble processing your shit micd with most of the mics stated above. I think a lot of us like to spend a lot of time getting our tone right. Once it is right, seems easier just to be able to keep it that way. You have gone through so much trouble to get that tone; Why would you want to fight a mic, too? ha

 

[Tone Monster]

You said it yourself, your a bedroom player. You pull out 6k, not really worried about mic position etc: it’s because you have no real world experience with why a 57 works great and is the standard for a reason. No offense, I’m just saying you don’t know, what you don’t know. And forget that 2 mic crap, or using more than that etc. if it doesn’t sound big with one mic, it ain’t gonna be great with two: and more often than not, it’s gonna suck. In a mix/when tracking, it just works, especially for Metal/hard rock, period. Condenser mics, and all these other fancy mics etc are not used by the pros who can afford whatever they want more often than not, and for good reasons. Most of the time these other mics pick up too much of other frequencies that aren’t needed, and you are left after Eqing with frequencies that don’t work/cut right/sit properly. I’m sure someone will come in here and give me a list of records done with other mics, and that’s fine. But the reality is even still it’s all situational and sometimes certain combinations work for very very specific reasons that aren’t the norm, sure. But the big boys are often just using a 57 and spend hours putting it in the right spot to fit the tone they want: there’s gotta be a reason, right?

This is just flat out BS. There may be some engineer somewhere using just 1 57, but the great majority are using multi-amp setups each of which are multi miked. Ribbon mics are everywhere and fior good reason. You sound like fletcher from gearslutz. One 57 WAS all they used in the low fi recordings of the 60s and 70s.

 

[RaceU4her]

I really hope there is a reason. Because I get fucking awesome transparent tones with my mic setup that takes me less time than turning on my amp and pedals. The whole point for me of micing is to share what my amp sounds like in the room. I am not trying to color my tone with a goddamned mic, lol. If it helps people to cut using a certain mic, that is great I suppose. But I doubt an engineer would have much more trouble processing your shit micd with most of the mics stated above. I think a lot of us like to spend a lot of time getting our tone right. Once it is right, seems easier just to be able to keep it that way. You have gone through so much trouble to get that tone; Why would you want to fight a mic, too? ha

having good room tone dosent automatically translate to good tone in a mix. your mic placement in the pic you posted might give you an accurate room sound but i can almost guarantee its not gonna work at all in a mix, its gonna be all low resonant mids with no upper cut or bite at and most likely is gonna sound like its in another room. the 57 much like v30s have that upper mid spike that might sound harsh on its own but in a mix with drums and bass ends up sitting in the right spot more often than not and thats why they are the standard. before i started recording i thought the same way you did and it didnt make sense to me either

 

[RaceU4her]

This is just flat out BS. There may be some engineer somewhere using just 1 57, but the great majority are using multi-amp setups each of which are multi miked. Ribbon mics are everywhere and fior good reason. You sound like fletcher from gearslutz. One 57 WAS all they used in the low fi recordings of the 60s and 70s.

i dont think anything he said is BS i have ribbons and condensers and pretty much every mic mentioned in this thread and have experimented plenty, and as boring and unoriginal as it might be a 57 alone works 90% of the time at least for the rock and metal i play. the times i do use a ribbon or condenser its usually 6-7db lower and really barely audible in the whole mix. im not sure which engineers you like but i see a lot more using simple setups than multiple amp/mic rigs

 

[Smash]

having good room tone dosent automatically translate to good tone in a mix. your mic placement in the pic you posted might give you an accurate room sound but i can almost guarantee its not gonna work at all in a mix, its gonna be all low resonant mids with no upper cut or bite at and most likely is gonna sound like its in another room. the 57 much like v30s have that upper mid spike that might sound harsh on its own but in a mix with drums and bass ends up sitting in the right spot more often than not and thats why they are the standard. before i started recording i thought the same way you did and it didnt make sense to me either

For sure it doesn't sound like it's in the next room. That much I promise you. when i say in the room sound. I mean in the room sound like standing in front of the cab at fucking gig volumes. i don't play at low volumes through an amp, unless it is going in my computer. But Yeah. I am not trying to cut. I am all about showing the tone that the amp has. Most of the people in forums are bedroom players. We drive the industry. Most musicians are broke and don't care about their gear as much as the music they play. I think this plays into the sm57. It is the cheapest mic and it gets the job done. I doubt there are a lot of musicians that got where they were obsessing over gear like us sick fucks.

 

[lll]

In-the-room tone usually doesn't translate well in a mix.

Listen to ISOs of big name players from famous/legendary bands' guitar tracks and you'll typically find the tone lacking by itself.

Always remember, a typical professionally produced song is a mirage, and not how things sound IRL.

 

[skoora]

If for what you’re doing, it works, it doesn’t matter what is the “norm”. If you start doing actual mixes with other instruments or work in a band you’ll probably find yourself revisiting what works for you then. Every mic scenario is valid depending on the wanted/needed result. For me fewer mics is better, less phase issues, but typically I like a 57 mixed with a ribbon or a 421, when mixing in a band scenario. I’ve never recorded guitar where it wasn’t to be mixed with other guitars and a rhythm section so not sure what I would do for a solo recording ie. for a YouTube demo etc. Ola’s in the room video’s are kinda fun where he has multiple mic, close and far and let’s you hear the differences.
I tried a SM7 for a short while on guitar and didn’t care for it. Not enough cut and top end.

 

[Speeddemon]

In-the-room tone usually doesn't translate well in a mix.

Listen to ISOs of big name players from famous/legendary bands' guitar tracks and you'll typically find the tone lacking by itself.

Always remember, a typical professionally produced song is a mirage, and not how things sound IRL.

Thank you for the acknowledge, I made these exact points already in post #3.

Some examples of such thin/nasal sounding iso tracks:




And even though this one sounds already pretty big, it sounds more crunchy and a tad thinner when iso'd, compared how it sits in the mix:

 

[RaceU4her]

For sure it doesn't sound like it's in the next room. That much I promise you. when i say in the room sound. I mean in the room sound like standing in front of the cab at fucking gig volumes. i don't play at low volumes through an amp, unless it is going in my computer. But Yeah. I am not trying to cut. I am all about showing the tone that the amp has. Most of the people in forums are bedroom players. We drive the industry. Most musicians are broke and don't care about their gear as much as the music they play. I think this plays into the sm57. It is the cheapest mic and it gets the job done. I doubt there are a lot of musicians that got where they were obsessing over gear like us sick fucks.

well then for you where capturing the in room sound is most important the 57 probably isnt the best choice, you asked why its the industry recording standard though and its cause it usually works in full band mixes, nothing really to do with price or broke musicians.

 

[VESmedic]

This is just flat out BS. There may be some engineer somewhere using just 1 57, but the great majority are using multi-amp setups each of which are multi miked. Ribbon mics are everywhere and fior good reason. You sound like fletcher from gearslutz. One 57 WAS all they used in the low fi recordings of the 60s and 70s.

What planet are you on? My best friend of 20 years has recorded some of the biggest metal records in the last 2 decades... want to know how many times he’s used a ribbon mic? ZERO. Multi mic’d? A HANDFUL of times. A single 57? 99 PERCENT OF THE TIME..

Please save it, unless you have a clue of what you are talking about, because you don’t. This isn’t me speculating or giving my opinion: these are facts, period. Not YouTube guitarists. Not Glenn fricker or some wannabe engineer. Real records, real labels, real world.

 

[VESmedic]

I agree with you. I have no real world experience. I just hear a lot of clips of amps I have played, and I see people doing youtube videos that butcher the sound of the amp. Next to it, always the sm57. Maybe they are just trash at micing.

Absolutely man. I’d be happy to send you a few clips of mics moved maybe a mm or two and show you the difference: micing a cab is everything..and something that’s hard to do... why?

something that hasn’t been brought up in my opinion: it’s hard to tell how a cab/mic placement sounds in mono: seriously, it is. Move a mic a mm, and listen again and you may not hear much difference that you can put your finger on.... now double track that riff, and pan it 100/100 left and right, and NOW it’s extremely apparent how that mic placement/IR actually sounds: it’s very hard to pick out exactly what you are looking for when moving a mic around and listening in mono, this is truly an art to learn to realize what you are looking for when moving it, and being able to discern when something actually sounds good or is going to work in your mix.

 

[VESmedic]

Um...no. If you don't know what you're doing, yeah it will double suck. Otherwise, you get some huge tones by miking up another speaker or even having a room mic set low in the mix. On another note, I've never been a fan of the fredman technique for high gain tones.

No... you don’t... even if you “know what you’re doing”, it’s knowing WHEN you actually need two mics on a guitar cab, and when you don’t. And more often than not, you don’t. I don’t know where you people get Indoctrinated into this crap, but it’s crap. Pure forum YouTube guitarist bullshit. No one is doing this often man, Atleast not in metal, it’s just flat out not true.

room mics? In metal? lol... come on man... seriously , no one actually believes you, right? Because no one is doing that in modern metal production. You guys need to step away from the YouTube and forums, seriously.

 

[VESmedic]

i dont think anything he said is BS i have ribbons and condensers and pretty much every mic mentioned in this thread and have experimented plenty, and as boring and unoriginal as it might be a 57 alone works 90% of the time at least for the rock and metal i play. the times i do use a ribbon or condenser its usually 6-7db lower and really barely audible in the whole mix. im not sure which engineers you like but i see a lot more using simple setups than multiple amp/mic rigs

Thank you, this was my point. I can’t speak for all genres, but I can assure you, the majority of records in metal these days are captured with a single, or MAYBE ( big maybe) another dynamic microphone. And even still, it’s just not very often. This board has been historically a metal board, so I’m relating my experience specifically to the heavier genres of music here, but it’s just true.
The problem is people listen too often to guitars on their own, not in the mix. So while other mics for sure may sound “prettier” or “better” when solo’d, they just flat out don’t work and sit right in the way modern metal productions require their mixes to sound! They just don’t! Andy sneap, Colin Richardson, tue masden, Mark Lewis, Jason suecof: the list goes on and on: these guys are heavy HEAVY single 57 users, all the time! And these dudes make literally all the records this board talks about ( minus the 80s crowd here haha). So people can believe what they want, or think they know what think they know, but this is the truth: spend your time with a single 57, learn it, learn how to make minute changes in placement and how that correlates to stereo guitars, worry about having great inputs, and use your ear: or you can listen to internet idiots on YouTube like glenn fricker or other wannabe’s who have time to make YouTube videos because they don’t make actual records and use 37 microphones because you think it sounds better: your choice.

 

[VESmedic]

I really hope there is a reason. Because I get fucking awesome transparent tones with my mic setup that takes me less time than turning on my amp and pedals. The whole point for me of micing is to share what my amp sounds like in the room. I am not trying to color my tone with a goddamned mic, lol. If it helps people to cut using a certain mic, that is great I suppose. But I doubt an engineer would have much more trouble processing your shit micd with most of the mics stated above. I think a lot of us like to spend a lot of time getting our tone right. Once it is right, seems easier just to be able to keep it that way. You have gone through so much trouble to get that tone; Why would you want to fight a mic, too? ha

Because a microphone is everything... everyone seems to forget: not one tone ANYONE is after on this board is anything Other than a sound of amp.... with a microphone in front of it. Think about it. Your favorite guitar tones ever: NONE ( ZERO) of them are “ in the room” tones... everything you crave is the sound of a specific microphone capturing an amp in a specific way: that’s why it’s an art and kind of magic all at the same time... having your “ tone” is great: being able to translate it and capture it properly is a Diffident thing entirely!

 

[Tone Monster]

Bob Rock, Butch Vig, Steve Albini, Michael Wagner, Randy Staub, and Terry Date all use multi mic setups. Those producers and engineers have recorded some of the best metal and hard rock tones in history. Can you get a good modern metal sound with a single 57? Sure. Do the true “big boys” work that way? Not a chance. VES, who is your famous friend and what albums
has he produced? I’d like to listen to a few of his tracks.

 

[VESmedic]

Bob Rock, Butch Vig, Steve Albini, Michael Wagner, Randy Staub, and Terry Date all use multi mic setups. Those producers and engineers have recorded some of the best metal and hard rock tones in history. Can you get a good modern metal sound with a single 57? Sure. Do the true “big boys” work that way? Not a chance. VES, who is your famous friend and what albums
has he produced? I’d like to listen to a few of his tracks.

So now this is a battle of name dropping and records contest? I just named 5 producers, one of which I’m close to as i mentioned in here , 2 of them I know personally and have for years. You said “ some engineer somewhere might use a 57 somewhere”.... I named 5 of the best in the world that do in fact, record with a single 57 often.....

The fact that you even question this shows me just how little you know about this topic: all of these guys are extremely vocal about their use of a single 57 more often than not, and it’s easily found online many of them talking about this exact topic. Furthermore, regardless of what engineer does what, I guarantee you they will all agree on this: spend time working with ONE mic, learn to make it sound great, learn how it reacts etc, then maybe someday in some distant land where phase problems don’t exist, you can worry about 2 mics.

 

[VESmedic]

Also a couple more points, since you brought up some of the “real big boys”...

When was the last time Wagner did a relevant record? Exactly. Harsh, but true. Also, most of his tones were 57s only....

Interesting you brought up terry date... you ever read his experience with tracking Dimebag? The guy would take 4 mics ( 57s, imagine that) and find the loudest parts of the speaker and mic them all. Cool. He was experimenting, which is always awesome. After they were done tracking, dime would come back and say he still had stuff his head he wanted to get out etc, and they would quickly mic one cab and one 57: and guess WHAT? they often thought every damn time, that THAT sounded better than all the “exotic micing” they did, for the record. Keep it simple, simple setup, it sounds better. His words, not mine. Another easy to find article.

 

[Tone Monster]

So now this is a battle of name dropping and records contest? I just named 5 producers, one of which I’m close to as i mentioned in here , 2 of them I know personally and have for years. You said “ some engineer somewhere might use a 57 somewhere”.... I named 5 of the best in the world that do in fact, record with a single 57 often.....

The fact that you even question this shows me just how little you know about this topic: all of these guys are extremely vocal about their use of a single 57 more often than not, and it’s easily found online many of them talking about this exact topic. Furthermore, regardless of what engineer does what, I guarantee you they will all agree on this: spend time working with ONE mic, learn to make it sound great, learn how it reacts etc, then maybe someday in some distant land where phase problems don’t exist, you can worry about 2 mics.

So now this is a battle of name dropping and records contest? I just named 5 producers, one of which I’m close to as i mentioned in here , 2 of them I know personally and have for years. You said “ some engineer somewhere might use a 57 somewhere”.... I named 5 of the best in the world that do in fact, record with a single 57 often.....

The fact that you even question this shows me just how little you know about this topic: all of these guys are extremely vocal about their use of a single 57 more often than not, and it’s easily found online many of them talking about this exact topic. Furthermore, regardless of what engineer does what, I guarantee you they will all agree on this: spend time working with ONE mic, learn to make it sound great, learn how it reacts etc, then maybe someday in some distant land where phase problems don’t exist, you can worry about 2 mics.

I mentioned those guys names because they’ve sold HUNDREDS of millions of records in hard rock/metal. I trust their work, not Internet forums and YouTube.

 

[Tone Monster]

Also a couple more points, since you brought up some of the “real big boys”...

When was the last time Wagner did a relevant record? Exactly. Harsh, but true. Also, most of his tones were 57s only....

Interesting you brought up terry date... you ever read his experience with tracking Dimebag? The guy would take 4 mics ( 57s, imagine that) and find the loudest parts of the speaker and mic them all. Cool. He was experimenting, which is always awesome. After they were done tracking, dime would come back and say he still had stuff his head he wanted to get out etc, and they would quickly mic one cab and one 57: and guess WHAT? they often thought every damn time, that THAT sounded better than all the “exotic micing” they did, for the record. Keep it simple, simple setup, it sounds better. His words, not mine. Another easy to find article.

Dude I’m just pointing out that it can be done both ways. Have a great weekend lol!