Economy picking

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@psychodave , are you using the same technique in the two videos above? In the lesson video you're picking fast and in the other one you're not. You're using a lot of thumb/finger movement in the second video but usually when people tremolo pick they keep the thumb/finger/pick assembly rigid and oscillate their wrist or elbow. A lot of players change their technique when picking really fast and many times they don't even know it. Troy Grady has shown guys on the ipotato videos and sometimes they don't even realize they change technique.

Yngwie 'engineers' his phrases in a similar way. He does a lot of those same things to facilitate downstrokes since he has a downward pick slant.
 
SpiderWars said:
@psychodave , are you using the same technique in the two videos above? In the lesson video you're picking fast and in the other one you're not. You're using a lot of thumb/finger movement in the second video but usually when people tremolo pick they keep the thumb/finger/pick assembly rigid and oscillate their wrist or elbow. A lot of players change their technique when picking really fast and many times they don't even know it. Troy Grady has shown guys on the ipotato videos and sometimes they don't even realize they change technique.

Yngwie 'engineers' his phrases in a similar way. He does a lot of those same things to facilitate downstrokes since he has a downward pick slant.
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I tend to use different techniques for slow and fast, but the video with the red Charvel, I was trying to show my picking on the fast parts.

I certainly use downward pick slanting and 95% of my solo playing will incorporate economy picking and picking new strings with a downstroke....unless it makes more sense to do an upstroke or flying note out of nowhere (hammer on).

Please note... I'm still a hack and this forums has lots of guy's that can bury my playing in a second.
 
Guess I gotta start slow…
 
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psychodave said:
This clip shows more of my right hand. You can see when the fast sections come I’ve already setup my picking for downstrokes. The one last speed run has 3 notes and a slide so I end on an upstroke since there are 4 notes and I started on a downstroke.

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YES! SO cool to see someone pick exactly like I do - and do it so damn well!!! Great playing and killer example of how efficient strict ‘economy’ picking can be: ‘always use downstrokes when crossing from thicker to thinner strings; always use upstrokes when crossing from thinner to thicker strings.’
 
PDC said:
YES! SO cool to see someone pick exactly like I do - and do it so damn well!!! Great playing and killer example of how efficient strict ‘economy’ picking can be: ‘always use downstrokes when crossing from thicker to thinner strings; always use upstrokes when crossing from thinner to thicker strings.’
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Thats what she said
 
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DanTravis62 said:
You should check out Grady's video on EJ's "skip 5s" licks - it's on YouTube.

I'm not a big EJ fan, but that video was very illuminating and helpful with "odd" note groupings for me.
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Troy Gradys cracking the code videos have some great lessons.

Also check out some of Rick Graham’s video as he is the master of economy picking.

It took me a little while to learn sweep picking and exonomy picking. I will say this, keep practicing and you will eventually gwt it and when you do you think, “ahhhh, so that’s how you do it.” It just kind of clicks and you get it.

I thought of the pick as a baseball and your finger on the note as the glove, timing and catching the bite. I told that to a friend and he got sweeping soon after.

Metronome and speeding up slowly works also.
 
PDC said:
YES! SO cool to see someone pick exactly like I do - and do it so damn well!!! Great playing and killer example of how efficient strict ‘economy’ picking can be: ‘always use downstrokes when crossing from thicker to thinner strings; always use upstrokes when crossing from thinner to thicker strings.’
Click to expand...
I use down strokes in both directions. I set my picking up so I will use a downstroke when going from plain to wound strings. Loot at the Superstitious solo run around 28-32 seconds. All of the string changes are down strokes.
 
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psychodave said:
I use down strokes in both directions. I set my picking up so I will use a downstroke when going from plain to wound strings. Loot at the Superstitious solo run around 28-32 seconds. All of the string changes are down strokes.
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Killer playing. It goes by so fast and your right hand moves so little that it almost looks like full economy picking. So you use economy picking on low to high string changes and strict alternate on high to low string crosses. I ‘believe’ this is how Yngwie picks. And I’m about 99% sure it’s how Joe Stump picks. I really struggled figuring my picking out and I settled on strict economy in both direction. At this point, I guess it’s whatever feels comfortable and whatever works.
 
Da
PDC said:
Killer playing. It goes by so fast and your right hand moves so little that it almost looks like full economy picking. So you use economy picking on low to high string changes and strict alternate on high to low string crosses. I ‘believe’ this is how Yngwie picks. And I’m about 99% sure it’s how Joe Stump picks. I really struggled figuring my picking out and I settled on strict economy in both direction. At this point, I guess it’s whatever feels comfortable and whatever works.
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Dave isn't using economy picking. Economy means no wasted motion so if you need to go up you upstroke and if you need to go down you down stroke. You never jump over a string just to pluck it in the opposite direction which happens regularly with alternate picking.

Dave is alternate picking but engineering things such that it always starts a new string with a downstroke. There are always exceptions but this is very similar to the way Yngwie plays. Check out Troy Grady's poptart Yngwie lick video, perfect example.
 
PDC said:
Killer playing. It goes by so fast and your right hand moves so little that it almost looks like full economy picking. So you use economy picking on low to high string changes and strict alternate on high to low string crosses. I ‘believe’ this is how Yngwie picks. And I’m about 99% sure it’s how Joe Stump picks. I really struggled figuring my picking out and I settled on strict economy in both direction. At this point, I guess it’s whatever feels comfortable and whatever works.
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SpiderWars said:
Da
Dave isn't using economy picking. Economy means no wasted motion so if you need to go up you upstroke and if you need to go down you down stroke. You never jump over a string just to pluck it in the opposite direction which happens regularly with alternate picking.

Dave is alternate picking but engineering things such that it always starts a new string with a downstroke. There are always exceptions but this is very similar to the way Yngwie plays. Check out Troy Grady's poptart Yngwie lick video, perfect example.
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I consider it economy picking. I look to avoid un-needed motion (especially since I'm left handed and play righty). Obviously it's not nearly as strict. There has to be some sort modification even if you use a perfect economy picking....for example: if you do a 3 note per string on the B string and economy to the high E and do a 3 note per string run, you end on a downstroke. So the next stroke you have to change direction without a string hit. To avoid this, I do a pull off.... but as previously noted, but feel its easier to then keep using the down strokes. I wont use upward slant economy picking. I realize it's not much of an issue though.

I think both Yngwie and Eric Johnson play like this....
 
psychodave said:
I consider it economy picking. I look to avoid un-needed motion (especially since I'm left handed and play righty). Obviously it's not nearly as strict. There has to be some sort modification even if you use a perfect economy picking....for example: if you do a 3 note per string on the B string and economy to the high E and do a 3 note per string run, you end on a downstroke. So the next stroke you have to change direction without a string hit. To avoid this, I do a pull off.... but as previously noted, but feel its easier to then keep using the down strokes. I wont use upward slant economy picking. I realize it's not much of an issue though.

I think both Yngwie and Eric Johnson play like this....
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Yeah there is grey area. Look at that Rick Graham lick posted earlier itt. Three groups of 4 notes. That last note of the second group is upstroke on high E and next note is UPSTROKE on B string. That's economy. If you always start a new string with a downstroke like you do then you wouldn't play it that way. Or would you?
 
SpiderWars said:
Yeah there is grey area. Look at that Rick Graham lick posted earlier itt. Three groups of 4 notes. That last note of the second group is upstroke on high E and next note is UPSTROKE on B string. That's economy. If you always start a new string with a downstroke like you do then you wouldn't play it that way. Or would you?
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Do you have a link? I did a search, but I'm not sure I'm seeing the video you're talking about. I'm curious how I would play it.
 
Do you have a link? I did a search, but I'm not sure I'm seeing the video you're talking about. I'm curious how I would play it.
Vintage Troy.

 
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