Bogner 412ST speakers!?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PSGuitar
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Thanks Nigel for the comments.

What did you mean about the 1993 comment? What happened then or there after?
 
I Don know the Marshall V30 variant. I've seen em used on Ebay and Reverb before.
Mesa V30s are hard to find used. Last year I snagged the 2002 one and I think a 2011 UK V30. Also hav China V30s in my Bogner 212 and sounds killer.

I only jam at home, with friends and gig. No studio work.
 
Beyond Black said:
How would you describe what Redbacks bring to the mix with V30’s?
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Hard to explain. They are so full, balanced, thick, deep, full/tight bass, smooth highs, but detailed. Good Celestion mids that work well with the V30 mids. To me they compliment each other well. Bass is so deep and thick, and balanced, yet not dark, even though many consider them dark.
 
PSGuitar said:
Hard to explain. They are so full, balanced, thick, deep, full/tight bass, smooth highs, but detailed. Good Celestion mids that work well with the V30 mids. To me they compliment each other well. Bass is so deep and thick, and balanced, yet not dark, even though many consider them dark.
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That description is not helping my GAS at all. I need to try these.
 
PSGuitar said:
Thanks Nigel for the comments.

What did you mean about the 1993 comment? What happened then or there after?
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Steve Fryette posted about it. Basucally Celestion changed the original V30 formula from the 80’s and Mesa rejected it. The T4338/T4416 are the original design and tge T3903/T3904 are not and are cheaper/inferior. There is a boxiness in the mids you cannot dial out.
 
Beyond Black said:
That description is not helping my GAS at all. I need to try these.
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And even though some will claim they are dark - it's all relative. Maybe next to a speaker that is brighter.
I have a Stone Age 212 with Redbacks that is a semi open back cab and it sounds huge, full and balanced. Mean, deep, tight lows. I find you don't have to EQ my amp as much. Just works well with so much. Highs are there, but warm, perfect and articulate. Thats what I hear and had a friend over to jam recently and he was amazed at how his amps just worked so well with the Redbacks. No need to dial out highs, etc.
 
Nigel said:
Steve Fryette posted about it. Basucally Celestion changed the original V30 formula from the 80’s and Mesa rejected it. The T4338/T4416 are the original design and tge T3903/T3904 are not and are cheaper/inferior. There is a boxiness in the mids you cannot dial out.
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So you mean you have to get pre 93 v30s?
Seems impossible to find, no?

Seems odd of Celestion would do that to the V30, yet so many of their other speakers, like the Redbacks, CL80, and so on, are so good.
 
PSGuitar said:
So you mean you have to get pre 93 v30s?
Seems impossible to find, no?

Seems odd of Celestion would do that to the V30, yet so many of their other speakers, like the Redbacks, CL80, and so on, are so good.
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The CL80 got changed too. Mesa’s C90 is the original, down to the vented mesh dustcap on the back. That’s where Bob Gjika sources his for his $1,500 2x12’s.

And yes I know it’s hard to find real old V30’s. I have two form March 93 and they do not sound as good as a Mesa. Furthermore the “B” Mesas sound different too. An IR maker noticed this when shooting multiple Mesa cabs. Observe:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/british-vs-chinese-celestion-speakers.146589/
 
Nigel said:
The CL80 got changed too. Mesa’s C90 is the original, down to the vented mesh dustcap on the back. That’s where Bob Gjika sources his for his $1,500 2x12’s.

And yes I know it’s hard to find real old V30’s. I have two form March 93 and they do not sound as good as a Mesa. Furthermore the “B” Mesas sound different too. An IR maker noticed this when shooting multiple Mesa cabs. Observe:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/british-vs-chinese-celestion-speakers.146589/
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Still I absolutely love my newer V30s, CL80s, etc.
The C90 is nice but I found too boomy in a closed back cabinet, hence why I used CL80 instead.

I like the C90, just better in an open or ported cab. I prefer Redbacks, K100s, etc.
 
PSGuitar said:
Still I absolutely love my newer V30s, CL80s, etc.
The C90 is nice but I found too boomy in a closed back cabinet, hence why I used CL80 instead.

I like the C90, just better in an open or ported cab. I prefer Redbacks, K100s, etc.
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If it weren’t for folks like you being the majority these changes would not have been permanent. For some of us with peculiar discerning taste, the lesser offerings aren’t acceptable. It’s not a big deal to most people, but for some of us it is.
 
Well it's a shame they didn't just leave them as is, if that's the case. Why fix what isn't broken.
 
Nigel said:
Mesa V30’s will sound superior to UK V30’s made as far back as March ‘93.
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Unfortunately I can't afford the Mesa V30s and in all my years and cabs, I haven't found large differences between any of these V30s.
 
I don't believe the story that the Mesa V30s are the OG formula after Celestion changed the others. I think whoever told Fryette that was misinformed.

I have some T3904 speakers from '89 and some early '93 T4416 speakers. They are visually different. The 3904s have a larger, cast back plate (silver metal part behind the magnet). The 4416s have a smaller, machined back plate. I assume the Mesa spec was just a different OEM order from the beginning.

They also sound different. The '89 T3904s are brighter and a bit scooped, turning any amp into a bit of a chug monster. The '93 T4416s have a smoother/more syrupy top end and seem more balanced.

In the early '90s, Celestion changed the doping around the dust cap, but that seems to have happened to all the V30 versions, not just the 3903/04.
 
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I can't get caught up in all the various differences in V30s. Makes my brain hurt and too much fussing for me. I just go with it and use it. I wanted a UK V30 and Mesa V30 for my Splawn so I went and got them, but don't notice a huge change from the China V30s.

I also had two China V30s that were Hellatones and they were warm, organic and fat. I still have one and replaced the other with a K100.

I still think for my ST412, I'll try the V30/DV-77 mix.
 
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Anyone ever try CL80s with Creamback M65s? I used to love Lynchbacks with CL80s and wondering how a CL80/M65 blend could be.
 
cardinal said:
I don't believe the story that the Mesa V30s are the OG formula after Celestion changed the others. I think whoever told Fryette that was misinformed.

I have some T3904 speakers from '89 and some early '93 T4416 speakers. They are visually different. The 3904s have a larger, cast back plate (silver metal part behind the magnet). The 4416s have a smaller, machined back plate. I assume the Mesa spec was just a different OEM order from the beginning.

They also sound different. The '89 T3904s are brighter and a bit scooped, turning any amp into a bit of a chug monster. The '93 T4416s have a smoother/more syrupy top end and seem more balanced.

In the early '90s, Celestion changed the doping around the dust cap, but that seems to have happened to all the V30 versions, not just the 3903/04.
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And, to throw yet another wrench into this discussion, try and locate the first version 8 ohm Marshall Vintage(the original V30) T3989 and give them a whirl. They might be taking over the top spot for me, when it comes to pairing up with a Marshall. I have a 1988 Marshall slant loaded with them. They weren't labeled as AV/BV then; just JCM 800 badge on front and on the back, a mono input with an AV sticker.
 
Thank you for the Marshall Vintage tip.
I'm not a big Marshall guy however.
 
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