Bogner 412ST speakers!?

[Kidkramer71]

I also have a bogner 4x12 with all v30 speakers that sounds amazing!
As stated by RedPlated
I like to mix speakers though too.
I like v30 bottom and greenbacks on top
But really it depends on what head.

 

[bubucci]

There are also Mesa blackframe T4139 8ohm from '91/'92, these are my favourites.
I have Bogner 412ST for few years because it is just the best cab Tight enough for metal but not too stiff for rock/vintage stuff. It is great cab with V30 but I have Scumback J75top/H75bottom in mine and this put it on another level.

 

[Nigel]

I can't get caught up in all the various differences in V30s. Makes my brain hurt and too much fussing for me. I just go with it and use it. I wanted a UK V30 and Mesa V30 for my Splawn so I went and got them, but don't notice a huge change from the China V30s.

I also had two China V30s that were Hellatones and they were warm, organic and fat. I still have one and replaced the other with a K100.

I still think for my ST412, I'll try the V30/DV-77 mix.

I had a couple of '93 made T3904's from Bruce Zinky's stash and they have that boxy mid thing going on that all of them have now. The change was pre-'93.

I don't believe the story that the Mesa V30s are the OG formula after Celestion changed the others. I think whoever told Fryette that was misinformed.

I have some T3904 speakers from '89 and some early '93 T4416 speakers. They are visually different. The 3904s have a larger, cast back plate (silver metal part behind the magnet). The 4416s have a smaller, machined back plate. I assume the Mesa spec was just a different OEM order from the beginning.

They also sound different. The '89 T3904s are brighter and a bit scooped, turning any amp into a bit of a chug monster. The '93 T4416s have a smoother/more syrupy top end and seem more balanced.

In the early '90s, Celestion changed the doping around the dust cap, but that seems to have happened to all the V30 versions, not just the 3903/04.

Steve's Celestion rep told him after he called him out about his new batch being different and then sent him a Mesa T4416. It's in that post he made, and also in an episode of the Malcontents show he does where I asked him to talk about it.

 

[Nigel]

Unfortunately I can't afford the Mesa V30s and in all my years and cabs, I haven't found large differences between any of these V30s.

Really? They are the same or cheaper than new Celestion V30's. You can also get them used so long as you verify the T number. That's what I did. Hell, I got my '03 Mesa OS 4x12 for $400 with the basically new slip cover. That's like 4 broken in Mesa V30's with a free cab and cover!

 

[cardinal]

I had a couple of '93 made T3904's from Bruce Zinky's stash and they have that boxy mid thing going on that all of them have now. The change was pre-'93.


Steve's Celestion rep told him after he called him out about his new batch being different and then sent him a Mesa T4416. It's in that post he made, and also in an episode of the Malcontents show he does where I asked him to talk about it.

V30s definitely have changed over the years. The dust cap doping changed in the early '90s. The magnet diameter shrunk in the early 2000s.

But I'm not convinced the T4416 is the same as a pre '93 T3904. The ones I have are just different.

 

[Nigel]

V30s definitely have changed over the years. The dust cap doping changed in the early '90s. The magnet diameter shrunk in the early 2000s.

But I'm not convinced the T4416 is the same as a pre '93 T3904. The ones I have are just different.

Yours may very well sound different. It’s a minuscule sample compared to a manufacturer getting pallets/containers full of them to sell in a product that bears their Trademark.

 

[cardinal]

Yours may very well sound different. It’s a minuscule sample compared to a manufacturer getting pallets/containers full of them to sell in a product that bears their Trademark.

But why do they look different? Every Mesa spec V30 I've ever seen has a smaller, machined back plate, unlike the larger cast backplate on the normal T3903 and 3904.

 

[Nigel]

But why do they look different? Every Mesa spec V30 I've ever seen has a smaller, machined back plate, unlike the larger cast backplate on the normal T3903 and 3904.

The two 93 T3904 v30’s had different pieces, one was machined, the other die cast, and they were two weeks apart in manufacture.

What Steven Fryette said is the truth. Celestion changed the form, Mesa refused to accept that, got their own T number and production line. Fryette wants those, Celestion reneged on the deal and he went to Eminence.

 

[cardinal]

The two 93 T3904 v30’s had different pieces, one was machined, the other die cast, and they were two weeks apart in manufacture.

What Steven Fryette said is the truth. Celestion changed the form, Mesa refused to accept that, got their own T number and production line. Fryette wants those, Celestion reneged on the deal and he went to Eminence.

I think we're going in circles. But nothing I've seen or read would confirm the accuracy of the story told to Fryette.

 

[Nigel]

I think we're going in circles. But nothing I've seen or read would confirm the accuracy of the story told to Fryette.

Here's the vid with the timestamp for your reference:

 

[cardinal]

Here's the vid with the timestamp for your reference:

But I have the actual speakers with me. Do they pull out these speakers and actually look and listen to them? I have them. The '89 T3904s are not like the '93 T4416s in either appearance or sound.

 

[Nigel]

But I have the actual speakers with me. Do they pull out these speakers and actually look and listen to them? I have them. The '89 T3904s are not like the '93 T4416s in either appearance or sound.

In fact, they did. It’s an interesting tale.

 

[PSGuitar]

My Cameron 412 with G12H30’s sounds phenomenal with high gain. They have a grind that stands out. They’re very broken in though. And that’s important for those speakers.

Mine didn't work for me. I sold them but that's awesome they worked for you.