Boogies not cutting in the mix live??

  • Thread starter Thread starter anomaly
  • Start date Start date
anomaly said:
Scooped, are you kidding me? Mark's are more middy than Rectos. But yes, recto's are a little easier to use in a band, they naturally have a good bit of upper mids, but you can definitely get a Mark to cut against a recto, no problem.

You coulda tried cranking the presence up high on the IV, dropping the 6600 a bit and raising the 2200, then of course there's always that 750 slider, have it as high as you can handle it. That usually does the trick. Also, if you want a bit more of a up front in your face kinda tone with a IV, try pulling the presence out... it shifts the upper frequencies and lowers the low end a bit (you can comphensate with the 80hz slider). Doing this gives it a bit more of a cutting tone, and you just gotta keep fucking with the dials until it's right. I've used IV's with rectos before and actually had a really good blend with the two amps as their mids sit in different spots, but they sound huge together. You always gotta compromise though in a two guitarist band.
Click to expand...
I almost had a stroke trying to write a response to Marks being too scooped. That's like saying a Dual Rectifier doesn't have any low end.
 
I gigged my C+s a few times but always went back to a Marshall. The 750 for me was at 25%; presence maxed treble pulled/dimed. Boosted too. But still, not gonna cut like a Marshall no matter what you do. Once you accept that you’ll be ok…the mix out front sounds great and you have a soundguy that can bump the mids on the board.
But you don’t gig a Mesa expecting it to sit like a Marshall does…if you do then you’ll be playing ‘change the dial’ all night.
 
anomaly said:
Ya, it's very rare that you can use your favorite bedroom settings in a live situation, but if you are the only guitarist you have a lot more freedom to choose how you sound. With another guitarist there is always compromise for the bigger picture... You need to find a tone the blends well with the other players tone. And yes, cymbals are a bitch sometimes. Getting the right top end bite can be hard to dial in sometimes because of the cymbals.

This is why so many people love Marshall jcm800's, you just plug em in with a boost and you are already mix ready. Settings don't matter as much with those amps. They are for lazy guitarists, lol.
Click to expand...
I agree . The wizards are great at fighting cymbals too !
 
Markedman said:
I think we've all had the experience of getting incredible tone at home with any amp and having to do a total complete knob turn fest at band practice. It just happen to me. I got my Marshall back from Dave Hopkins and once band practice started I was turning knobs after thinking I had Grailtone.

"Man it sounded so awesome back home, what the fuck happen?"
Click to expand...
It’s such a deflated feeling . I almost feel depressed until I work it out . Lol fr it’s the worst
 
I played Mark IVs and Rectos for years. Never had an issue cutting through.
 
Marshall or Mesa, I have both, and use both. Cutting through the mix is easy peasy, it's all about the Lattice and if you've arrange the crystals correctly, everyone knows that, duh. Not a big deal really, even a caveman can do it.

crystal-systems by John Bazzano, on Flickr
 
Last edited:
Dial in your shit at gig volume. JFC I wish someone would have slapped this into me in my 20s.

If you're a 2 4x12 guy, like me... using a v30 cab and an ugly mid-heavy box with it can really work great too.

My latest concoction is 2 classic boogie/mark 4x12 halfbacks. One with the c90/EV200 combo, and one with creambacks on top, and CL80s in the bottom. Remains to be seen, but its fucking loud and cuts like your mom's dong.
 
any amp isn't going to cut if you don't set it to cut. Some people want to have "THEIR SETTINGS" as like a false since of tonal security. "if i have it set to this, i KNOW i'll sound the best". Well, different rooms, different floors, different distances from walls, are all going to fuck with how you sound. most of us figure that out over time, but that whole concept is foreign to some people. especially the celeb guitarist obsessed.

Its just like when people see old photos of metallica, and their amps are in the back round with settings marked on. Thats probably just thier starting point, to be tweaked accordingly. Its not set in stone for the studio, practice, and every venue because that wouldn't be practical.
 
JimAnsell said:
any amp isn't going to cut if you don't set it to cut. Some people want to have "THEIR SETTINGS" as like a false since of tonal security. "if i have it set to this, i KNOW i'll sound the best". Well, different rooms, different floors, different distances from walls, are all going to fuck with how you sound. most of us figure that out over time, but that whole concept is foreign to some people. especially the celeb guitarist obsessed.

Its just like when people see old photos of metallica, and their amps are in the back round with settings marked on. Thats probably just thier starting point, to be tweaked accordingly. Its not set in stone for the studio, practice, and every venue because that wouldn't be practical.
Click to expand...


This is why bands like modelers as well as being cheaper to ship and less time setting up, they are consistent
 
HarryCooter said:
I almost had a stroke trying to write a response to Marks being too scooped. That's like saying a Dual Rectifier doesn't have any low end.
Click to expand...
Not "Too scooped" ..... Just a bit scooped and less cutting when compared to a Rectifier in a live mix. I used a Mark IV with typical settings up against another guitar player in my band using a 2 channel recto. The Recto dominated the mix and I was barely heard. That was my experience, there could have been other variables that caused this sure but Im not the only one who has experienced this. Have you used a Mark IV in a two guitar band ?
 
"Have you used a Mark IV in a two guitar band ?"

Lamb of God?
 
the4thlast1 said:
Not "Too scooped" ..... Just a bit scooped and less cutting when compared to a Rectifier in a live mix. I used a Mark IV with typical settings up against another guitar player in my band using a 2 channel recto. The Recto dominated the mix and I was barely heard. That was my experience, there could have been other variables that caused this sure but Im not the only one who has experienced this. Have you used a Mark IV in a two guitar band ?
Click to expand...
You could turn the gain down or the mids up or both.

Used to jam with these guys who basically tried to drown you out and would bitch if you turned up and watch to make sure you didnt. (Bass player and other guitar player) I would just go bump my mids up and they didnt understand what that did so didnt complain cause I didnt "turn up." I always thought it was funny.
 
the4thlast1 said:
Not "Too scooped" ..... Just a bit scooped and less cutting when compared to a Rectifier in a live mix. I used a Mark IV with typical settings up against another guitar player in my band using a 2 channel recto. The Recto dominated the mix and I was barely heard. That was my experience, there could have been other variables that caused this sure but Im not the only one who has experienced this. Have you used a Mark IV in a two guitar band ?
Click to expand...
I'm very familiar with both Rectos & Marks in band settings and recording. The only way I see a Mark getting lost is if you had the eq and volume on both amps in places they shouldn't be in a band mix. For instance, the Recto's bass and treble too high, and the Mark with too much 750 and 2200 pulled out. 2200 is a very fine line between there and lost. It is common to have both amps dialed this way when playing alone, so I could see a band using these settings at practice and the Mark getting lost. But this isn't a case of the Mark not being able to, it's 100% on the user.
 
Markedman said:
"Have you used a Mark IV in a two guitar band ?"

Lamb of God?
Click to expand...
Both members were using the same amp in Lamb of God so yes of course they will both be heard..... I figured this is where things would go. Lets get back on topic , Im not saying the Mark cant cut Im saying a good Recto will dominate more than a MarkIV. I knew everyone would get a bit butt hurt. I didnt spend lots of time trying to get the MarkIV to be heard better and try lots of different settings. I tried some adjustments on the spot and it helped a little but still wasn't happy with the results.
 
the4thlast1 said:
Both members were using the same amp in Lamb of God so yes of course they will both be heard..... I figured this is where things would go. Lets get back on topic , Im not saying the Mark cant cut Im saying a good Recto will dominate more than a MarkIV. I knew everyone would get a bit butt hurt. I didnt spend lots of time trying to get the MarkIV to be heard better and try lots of different settings. I tried some adjustments on the spot and it helped a little but still wasn't happy with the results.
Click to expand...
Nah, nobody is butt hurt, but the Mark series are my favorite amps. The combination of the pre-gain tonestack and graphic eq have a learning curve that just take a bit of time to master. It took me a while to understand how to get straight to a sound I wanted, and I wouldn't expect anyone to really understand it even within a few months of owning one(unless you have a shit ton of time to play with it). Small adjustments here and there can make huge differences in weird ways. But, once you understand how to dial them and you get used to the mids, there just isn't anything else like it. And scooped is the last word I would use to describe them when dialed correctly.
 
HarryCooter said:
Nah, nobody is butt hurt, but the Mark series are my favorite amps. The combination of the pre-gain tonestack and graphic eq have a learning curve that just take a bit of time to master. It took me a while to understand how to get straight to a sound I wanted, and I wouldn't expect anyone to really understand it even within a few months of owning one(unless you have a shit ton of time to play with it). Small adjustments here and there can make huge differences in weird ways. But, once you understand how to dial them and you get used to the mids, there just isn't anything else like it. And scooped is the last word I would use to describe them when dialed correctly.
Click to expand...
I hear you on that and dont deny that you're right. I didnt spend lots of time with it , I thought it was a very good sounding amp just not for me at the time. Fast forward several years latter when the JP2C came out I bought one and also liked it a good deal. I never got to try that amp live at the time my band was out of commission. The only Mark series amp I didnt like much was the MKV. I also had a Mark III with a factory plus mod, that was a pretty killer sounding amp but was flipping amps like crazy back then, I got it for $900 lol.
 
Racerxrated said:
I gigged my C+s a few times but always went back to a Marshall. The 750 for me was at 25%; presence maxed treble pulled/dimed. Boosted too. But still, not gonna cut like a Marshall no matter what you do. Once you accept that you’ll be ok…the mix out front sounds great and you have a soundguy that can bump the mids on the board.
But you don’t gig a Mesa expecting it to sit like a Marshall does…if you do then you’ll be playing ‘change the dial’ all night.
Click to expand...
I jam with a dude that uses a Marshall DSL, and I have no problems at all cutting thru against him. He's got a brighter tone for sure, but we make it work and it sounds great.

Ever heard the band Neurosis, one guitarist uses a Mark IV and the other guy uses either a jcm 800 or dual rectifiers. The guy with the Mark has a very neutral EQ setting and a VERY bass heavy cab, so he gets a lot of thump to go along with those mids. It's a really dark tone, the total opposite of the other guys tone, but the two combined sound HUGE.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top