Wizard MTL Mk2 tones

[Brandonrz]

I guess my big thing is I can’t imagining needing anymore saturation than the MTL2 has for modern metal . So that’s why I say people are different.That’s confusing for me is all

Honestly to me sounds like the “lead” like riffs being talked about, just wanting much more compression and a more “forgiving” amp as I’d call it. My wizard points out my flaws wayyyy more as a player than my 5150 stealth does, with all the gain and especially the compression glueing the notes together so to speak. You can even see it in the waveform when I mic a cabinet up a wizard being WAY more dynamic. But hell that’s one of the many things I like about it. It’s made me a tighter player. All these amps have more than enough gain on tap.

 

[braintheory]

I guess my big thing is I can’t imagining needing anymore saturation than the MTL2 has for modern metal . So that’s why I say people are different.That’s confusing for me is all

Could be a semantic thing here. The amp has more than enough gain, but a dry quality to it no matter how much gain is there. For leads I prefer amps that have more fluid connections between the notes

 

[Brandonrz]

Not sure if I sent you this when you bought the amp, but here's your amp, boosted compared to my MTL mk2 6L... iphone quality lol

Yeah dude the MC with the mids cut is my shit. Love it. Using it on my bands ep currently. Hoping it’s done soon. Pissed off death metal.

 

[braintheory]

Honestly to me sounds like the “lead” like riffs being talked about, just wanting much more compression and a more “forgiving” amp as I’d call it. My wizard points out my flaws wayyyy more as a player than my 5150 stealth does, with all the gain and especially the compression glueing the notes together so to speak. You can even see it in the waveform when I mic a cabinet up a wizard being WAY more dynamic. But hell that’s one of the many things I like about it. It’s made me a tighter player. All these amps have more than enough gain on tap.

Not at all. As one example my stock 1972 Marshall Superlead 100 at volume is more unforgiving than either Wizard I’ve had, more open, raw, tighter and clearer, yet imo a far better amp for leads & single lines than both Wizards I’ve had because the notes still have a much more fluid/human quality to the way they connect to each other and the nuances/complexity around the notes when they are held long with vibrato. The midrange on it is has much more going on in it. I’m not sure how to explain further what I’m talking about, but it’s another amp that despite having less gain isn’t a dry amp like Fryette’s, Wizard’s or VH4’s

 

[Brandonrz]

Not at all. As one example my stock 1972 Marshall Superlead 100 at volume is more unforgiving than either Wizard I’ve had, more open, raw, tighter and clearer, yet imo a far better amp for leads & single lines than both Wizards I’ve had because the notes still have a much more fluid/human quality to the way they connect to each other and the nuances/complexity around the notes when they are held long with vibrato. The midrange on it is has much more going on in it. I’m not sure how to explain further what I’m talking about, but it’s another amp that despite having less gain isn’t a dry amp like Fryette’s, Wizard’s or VH4’s

Never played a super lead, so just talking from description here, and other Marshall experience…. Most the Marshalls I’ve played have a shit load of headroom, and gain on tap. But they are wayyyyyy more compressed than a wizard, Fryette, or vh4. A jcm 800 micd up looks like a solid block, versus a wizard which has all kinds of dynamic range on a recording.

 

[Techdeth]

Could be a semantic thing here. The amp has more than enough gain, but a dry quality to it no matter how much gain is there. For leads I prefer amps that have more fluid connections between the notes

That dry quality is what makes it more modern to me . It keeps tighter a clearer and punch

Honestly to me sounds like the “lead” like riffs being talked about, just wanting much more compression and a more “forgiving” amp as I’d call it. My wizard points out my flaws wayyyy more as a player than my 5150 stealth does, with all the gain and especially the compression glueing the notes together so to speak. You can even see it in the waveform when I mic a cabinet up a wizard being WAY more dynamic. But hell that’s one of the many things I like about it. It’s made me a tighter player. All these amps have more than enough gain on tap.

i get it now . But still I think it has enough . I just play with less gain even more shredding leads . Like the video OP made above . That’s more than enough saturation for solos . That’s why I was saying people are different.To me that’s a lot . But I get it now . It’s interesting to hear how we all want different things

 

[braintheory]

Never played a super lead, so just talking from description here, and other Marshall experience…. Most the Marshalls I’ve played have a shit load of headroom, and gain on tap. But they are wayyyyyy more compressed than a wizard, Fryette, or vh4. A jcm 800 micd up looks like a solid block, versus a wizard which has all kinds of dynamic range on a recording.

I agree, same experience with those, but the early ‘70’s SuperLead are a very different animal and the ‘67 and early Marshall’s are an even different animal from that. I think with Marshall’s (and some other brands too), some guys just try one or 2 models and mistakenly think all models will be in that ballpark

 

[braintheory]

That dry quality is what makes it more modern to me . It keeps tighter a clearer and punch

I disagree. I consider amps like my Beta or Uber to be more modern sounding amps and they are some of the most saturated amps I’ve tried. If anyone thinks the Beta isn’t a very modern sound (whether you like it or dislike it is an entirely different thing) I have nothing to say lol. The Wizard’s to me sound like amps that could’ve existed 30-40 years ago and I don’t think they they would’ve sounded out of place with other high gain amps of the time (in fact they did exist that long ago). Can’t say that at all for the Beta or Uber (for one thing they sound too processed to have the sound of those times, while the Wizards still sound raw). The tightest amps I’ve had seem to also be more saturated amps

 

[Brandonrz]

I agree, same experience with those, but the early ‘70’s SuperLead are a very different animal and the ‘67 and early Marshall’s are an even different animal from that. I think with Marshall’s (and some other brands too), some guys just try one or 2 models and mistakenly think all models will be in that ballpark

Don’t get me wrong, I totally dug all those amps. Silver jubilee and jcm 800 are badass. Countless sick albums with them.

 

[braintheory]

Don’t get me wrong, I totally dug all those amps. Silver jubilee and jcm 800 are badass. Countless sick albums with them.

I also still love my Wizard and it’s a keeper despite the things I describe about it. The jubilee’s I found too smooth & polite vs other Marshall’s and even my Wizard when AB’ed. Didn’t last long for me. I personally don’t care what albums used what amps

 

[Techdeth]

I disagree. I consider amps like my Beta or Uber to be more modern sounding amps and they are some of the most saturated amps I’ve tried. If anyone thinks the Beta isn’t a very modern sound (whether you like it or dislike it is an entirely different thing) I have nothing to say lol. The Wizard’s to me sound like amps that could’ve existed 30-40 years ago and I don’t think they they would’ve sounded out of place with other high gain amps of the time (in fact they did exist that long ago). Can’t say that at all for the Beta or Uber (for one thing they sound too processed to have the sound of those times, while the Wizards still sound raw). The tightest amps I’ve had seem to also be more saturated amps

I get what you’re saying but that’s still the opposite of how I feel . I think all these amps have too much saturation period . So more saturation is not what I need to for right modern sound . My Hermansoms have way less saturation and are the king of modern amps to me . I do not feel more saturated amps are good for being tight .Literally what you say Makes mtl2 not as good for modern tone is exactly why it’s perfect to me for that sounds . I’m the guy who thinks all these amps have way too much saturation period compared to most other people

 

[braintheory]

I get what you’re saying but that’s still the opposite of how I feel . I think all these amps have too much saturation period . So more saturation is not what I need to for right modern sound . My Hermansoms have way less saturation and are the king of modern amps to me . I do not feel more saturated amps are good for being tight .Literally what you say Makes mtl2 not as good for modern tone is exactly why it’s perfect to me for that sounds . I’m the guy who thinks all these amps have way too much saturation period .

The Hermansson is an amp I still haven’t tried. The clips on YT sound like it could get more saturated, but would have to hear it in person. The Herbert is another very saturated amp that I know you like a lot, which makes me wonder about it being semantics (if you really mean saturated, gain or compression. I generally don’t like too much of the latter too myself). All these amps of course can get plenty saturated with a boost. At least for what I mean by saturated, it’s a quality independent of tightness (most boost pedals will make things tighter & more saturated as an example)

 

[anomaly]

Never played a super lead, so just talking from description here, and other Marshall experience…. Most the Marshalls I’ve played have a shit load of headroom, and gain on tap. But they are wayyyyyy more compressed than a wizard, Fryette, or vh4. A jcm 800 micd up looks like a solid block, versus a wizard which has all kinds of dynamic range on a recording.

You think a jcm 800 is more compressed than a Diezel VH4? First I heard that. Channel 3 and 4 are pretty damn compressed on the VH4. I will admit though that a 2203 or 2204 can get quite compressed up at high volumes when the power tubes start clipping a bit and get their natural compression going. I think that's one of the reasons they work so well in a mix. At lower or moderate volumes they have dynamics though.

That's kinda like a Mesa Boogie Mark V, a solid brick on the wav forms. That's a very compressed amp and it doesn't matter what volume they are at.

 

[anomaly]

I also still love my Wizard and it’s a keeper despite the things I describe about it. The jubilee’s I found too smooth & polite vs other Marshall’s and even my Wizard when AB’ed. Didn’t last long for me. I personally don’t care what albums used what amps

Smooth and polite?? Are you talking the whole sound spectrum? or are we talking about the mids or highs? For me personally, I love an amp with a smooth top end, but then an aggressive midrange. I love that glassy kinda sound some amps have when their treble frequencies are very smooth. I don't really consider that polite sounding.

 

[Brandonrz]

You think a jcm 800 is more compressed than a Diezel VH4? First I heard that. Channel 3 and 4 are pretty damn compressed on the VH4. I will admit though that a 2203 or 2204 can get quite compressed up at high volumes when the power tubes start clipping a bit and get their natural compression going. I think that's one of the reasons they work so well in a mix. At lower or moderate volumes they have dynamics though.

Yeah, although I haven’t used them too much in a studio setting, the few times I did they were slammed and were pretty much a solid block in terms of wave form. Not too much dynamic range, it was still there, but not much. Full disclosure the music I make and record is heavy stuff.

When most amps are gained out as most people desire them in heavy music, they are super compressed already… some more than others for sure. The JCM certainly wasn’t to the extent of a 5150 or an Engl or anything like that!

 

[braintheory]

Smooth and polite?? Are you talking the whole sound spectrum? or are we talking about the mids or highs? For me personally, I love an amp with a smooth top end, but then an aggressive midrange. I love that glassy kinda sound some amps have when their treble frequencies are very smooth. I don't really consider that polite sounding.

Well it’s all relative. If I compared the 1987 Jubilee I had to the Friedman’s it would come off raw & aggressive comparatively. It’s been a few years now since I had that jubilee, but going off what I remember it was definitely smoother in the mids vs the ‘79 jmp2203, but I wanna say it may have just overall been smoother throughout like you said

I agree that some amps can have smoother top end, but the aggressive mids make it overall a not at all polite amp. Kinda like the iii’s vs c+’s. The iii’s have more aggressive/sharper highs, but c+’s seemed to have more growl and tonal complexity other than the highs, so to the c+’s sounded overall more aggressive to me IME and just plain better. My Purpleface is a perfect example I think of what you’re describing. It has smooth, silky, somewhat rolled off highs, not a huge low end (but not lacking to me either), but throughout the entire midrange spectrum extremely rich, growly, complex and aggressive. It is the complete opposite of amps with hollowness in the mids like Hiwatt’s, Fryette’s, Wizard’s

 

[anomaly]

Let me ask you something guys, do you consider Meshuggah's tone on Catch 33 polite? To me, it's gotta smoothness to it, but at the same time it's very aggressive and very modern. I don't know how they managed that tone with a Pod XT but that is one of my all time favorite tones ever. That was like one of the first real djent records... well Nothing and I are Djent too, but they don't sound as huge and groundbreaking as Catch 33.

 

[braintheory]

Let me ask you something guys, do you consider Meshuggah's tone on Catch 33 polite? To me, it's gotta smoothness to it, but at the same time it's very aggressive and very modern. I don't know how they managed that tone with a Pod XT but that is one of my all time favorite tones ever. That was like one of the first real djent records... well Nothing and I are Djent too, but they don't sound as huge and groundbreaking as Catch 33.

I agree with you on all about that Catch 33 tone. Not a polite tone to me. My favorite songs by Meshuggah were on other albums though, so I guess I overlooked it in terms of sound

 

[anomaly]

Well it’s all relative. If I compared the 1987 Jubilee I had to the Friedman’s it would come off raw & aggressive comparatively. It’s been a few years now since I had that jubilee, but going off what I remember it was definitely smoother in the mids vs the ‘79 jmp2203, but I wanna say it may have just overall been smoother throughout like you said

I agree that some amps can have smoother top end, but the aggressive mids make it overall a not at all polite amp. Kinda like the iii’s vs c+’s. The iii’s have more aggressive/sharper highs, but c+’s seemed to have more growl and tonal complexity other than the highs, so to the c+’s sounded overall more aggressive to me IME and just plain better. My Purpleface is a perfect example I think of what you’re describing. It has smooth, silky, somewhat rolled off highs, not a huge low end (but not lacking to me either), but throughout the entire midrange spectrum extremely rich, growly, complex and aggressive. It is the complete opposite of amps with hollowness in the mids like Hiwatt’s, Fryette’s, Wizard’s

I agree with you about the Mark III vs the IIC+, the only part of the III that really sounds more aggressive to me is the highs, while the IIC+ has a very smooth silky top end, but then a very aggressive, growly, complex midrange... more aggressive and complex than the III. That's where the aggression should come from IMO, the midrange.

 

[braintheory]

I agree with you about the Mark III vs the IIC+, the only part of the III that really sounds more aggressive to me is the highs, while the IIC+ has a very smooth silky top end, but then a very aggressive, growly, complex midrange... more aggressive and complex than the III. That's where the aggression should come from IMO, the midrange.

I agree. That’s why I get so turned off when amps are either too hollow, flat or smooth in the midrange. To my ears it’s worse than when an amp is too bright or harsh in the highs. There are times though when I want sizzle and more aggression in the highs, but not in the ways mark iii’s do it, more like the sizzle that JBL’s provide or certain vintage ceramic pickups I’ve got