Weird overtone I can't sort out

  • Thread starter Thread starter VonBonfire
  • Start date Start date
Have you tried the amps with different speaker cabs? Old, failed caps can give weird ghost notes that might be what you're describing.
 
Have you checked the power cords are OK and that they’re fully plugged into the back of the amp and the wall? I had a similar issue and l, after checking a whole bunch of things, realised that the power cord had been pulled out of the back of the amp ever so slightly. Once I pushed it all the way back in, the issue went away.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Issues got worse yesterday and I got next to nothing accomplished. I think I have one amp that has a bad component inside as it started cracking and making weird noises more than previously. I was doing my best to just blow it up that way there is no question, lol.

Everything, both amps, is headed to the tech today. I am also now pretty sure that every speaker I own is fully blown so there is that to deal with as those issues were definitely worse. It also dawned on me that I had tried a high output pickup that I couldn't get low enough in the neck position. It had insane biting crystal highs that I tested at full volume a couple months ago. That might've sent the speakers on the road to destruction because the celestions were ringing in the same range that that pickup had the harshness. I think it started them on the road to destruction.

I followed all the recommendations you guys gave me but no dice. The next question is do I get the classic EV's, the black label EV's, or the Eminence PF-350's? I'm leaning towards the classics cause there are no good demos of the PF-350. I just want the "lifetime" speaker that will forever take all the abuse so this isn't ever an issue again. Max power handling. I think I'm gonna just buy brand new cause I always buy used and I need something that is a known quantity this time. I'll get the amps back and make a decision on what set to buy this week What a mess....
 
VonBonfire said:
Ever had a speaker not fully blown and doing the scratching/farting out but was just giving you weird overtones?

I have a celestion loaded Twin that was giving me serious grief in the studio. It's especially present on the 2nd string from fret 15-17 but it's everywhere when you listen closely. My other Twin is also giving me this problem but not nearly as severe. I think maybe the K-120 in it has finally hit the end of it's life. I hope it really won't show through on the recording with a full band since I have a bunch of tracking to do today and am under the gun so to speak. I'm thinking maybe it's time to bite the bullet on a brand new set of speakers.

I replaced every tube in the celestion loaded twin and still had the problem. It's been about five or six years since I had either amp on a tech bench and I have pummeled, I mean pummeled, the speakers with many hours long amp on 10 gigs. The celestions are 100 watt handling each. AVT's.

Any suggestions on stuff to check before I go way deep into an EVM12 debt-hole? I really can't afford this right now but I might not have a choice. My project has to be complete 100 percent by the end of July. Sounds like a long time but we are talking about open saturdays when I'm not gigging and I still have mixing, mastering, and printing to handle.
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Nothing to get hung about
 
I have actually done that. Hd500. What it lacked in tonez it made up for when we finished playing. Unplug it, pick it up and leave.
 
JackBootedThug said:
I have actually done that. Hd500. What it lacked in tonez it made up for when we finished playing. Unplug it, pick it up and leave.
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LOL. I want to die as a dinosaur so I'm okay with lugging a Twin. Probably the least hassle of anything related to the business. I just refuse to get into modeling stuff other than being in a bind with no other recourse to get the job done. I'll survive. I have time before the next gig and recording session to sort it out.
 
Completely understand. You’re actually preaching to the choir here. I did have an original pod pro, mesa 20/20 and bbe sonic maximizer running to two mesa halfbacks with mc90’s and ev’s….rig sounded pretty cool for what it was. Actually badass. That was late 90’s I think.
 
When was the last time you played these at volume? I’m thinking time to put in new electrolytics
 
JackBootedThug said:
Completely understand. You’re actually preaching to the choir here. I did have an original pod pro, mesa 20/20 and bbe sonic maximizer running to two mesa halfbacks with mc90’s and ev’s….rig sounded pretty cool for what it was. Actually badass. That was late 90’s I think.
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Sounds like a sweet rig. I downsized from a 100 watt Plexi half stack to the Twins. They are like toys by comparison but try doing four or five hundred gigs downtown Austin and get back to me on how much fun you had loading in and loading out head/cab arrangements. It's too much hassle to get ina and out of the club with. I can get two Twins on a dolly, plus my cable/mic bag, personal bag, camera, camera stand, and mic stand all in one trip. Guitar in hand have gig will travel. That wasn't happening with the half stack.
 
Aynirar27 said:
When was the last time you played these at volume? I’m thinking time to put in new electrolytics
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Every time I play they are on 10 unless it's a low volume gig, which isn't very often. I'm gonna get them checked out today.
 
I have been having a very similar issue in my home for 2 years now, cant record shit because of it. Tried everything. I have multiple amps, cables, guitars and cabinets and it's still there. I have researched and tried everything. I am convinced it's the old wiring in my house.

It is unlikely you have blown all your speakers. It might be your power.
 
VonBonfire said:
Every time I play they are on 10 unless it's a low volume gig, which isn't very often. I'm gonna get them checked out today.
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Are you familiar with ghosting and all that? It’s possible your amps have been making these sounds for a while now, they just get lost in the mix while gigging compared the the microscope of recording
 
acceptance said:
What does an overtone sound like anyways?
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A sort of ringing or similar sound that accompanies a note plucked on your guitar.

The Celestions bit the dust. I pulled them out and while they do not have the traditional blown speaker crunch there is a weird shrill higher pitched rub real bad on one of them, almost like the overtone I was hearing. I threw them in the garbage. The Force 12 in the other amp is also blown/. That amp started farting real bad last night when I switched to it after the Celestion noise became more prominent. Beating them really helped sort the problem. The K might've survived, to be determined but I don't hear any obvious rubs.

The Celestion loaded amp def has something going on inside as well so I'm taking both of them in today to have them gone through. I should start to have my bases covered if I "break out another thousand". So it looks like I'm getting to the source of the problems. Here I was hoping to knock out a few tracks. All the issues converged on my recording session. When it rains it pours.
 
VonBonfire said:
The Force 12 in the other amp is also blown
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That's a 150W speaker if I recall... What's the wattage on your twins? You mentioned you give it all the beans all the time. If that means full clipping of the power amp, the number I've heard is a power margin factor of 5 to 10 to reduce the chance of the speaker getting trashed by the square waves. So basically two 300W EVM's. Apparently speakers really don't like square waves, as @Scumback Speakers can confirm I believe.
 
7704A said:
That's a 150W speaker if I recall... What's the wattage on your twins? You mentioned you give it all the beans all the time. If that means full clipping of the power amp, the number I've heard is a power margin factor of 5 to 10 to reduce the chance of the speaker getting trashed by the square waves. So basically two 300W EVM's. Apparently speakers really don't like square waves, as @Scumback Speakers can confirm I believe.
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It is 150w but the condition I got it in was unknown. It held up for about 30 minutes yesterday before it started farting out. Seems like maybe it was mostly blown when I got it.

So you're suggesting the Black Label EV's 300 watt or perhaps the massive Eminence PF-350 350 watt speakers instead of the 200w classics?
 
VonBonfire said:
So you're suggesting the Black Label EV's 300 watt or perhaps the massive Eminence PF-350 350 watt speakers instead of the 200w classics?
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Yes, though I'm no authority on the matter. My vote would be on the EV's, since I'm more familiar with their build quality and my speaker repair guy has a lot of positive stuff to say about them. I have to double check, but they may be conservatively rated too. At least, my pro-lines touted that I think, and they described the rating process used. Mechanically, the EVM magnets are also bolted to the frames, at least with mine. I can't tell on the new ones or the Emi because of the stickers. Also, the PF has a fairly aggressive low pass, it's only spec'd as useful up to 3.5kHz, so that may be a dealbreaker there.

For what it's worth Carvin says 4 times an amp's RMS rating is the threshold for safe usage when clipping, so you might be able to get away with two classic EVM's depending on your amp's wattage. https://carvinaudio.com/blogs/audio-education/demystifying-power-ratings-rms-vs-program-vs-peak. The 5-10 number I heard is from Kevin O'Connor.
 
7704A said:
Also, the PF has a fairly aggressive low pass, it's only spec'd as useful up to 3.5kHz, so that may be a dealbreaker there.
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Thanks for your info, it is helpful. Can you explain this to me in layman's terms? What is the net result of "fairly aggressive low pass"?
 
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