Economy picking

Exo-metal

Exo-metal

Well-known member
I remember seeing Gus G open for a gig a while back, met him and talked to him for a while. Cool guy. What really impressed me was how he picks ultra fast with minimal movement. I've seen this style before and want to use this approach but in a YT clip he posted he only used the sweeping economy pick on the down stroke in his example. Anyone here notice or include the upstroke when descending?

Here is the clip...
 
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Yeah I asked him about this before. He told me for 3 notes per string he likes to start on a down stroke so that you can use economy picking to follow the third picked note with a down economy style. So down up down (economy down) up down etc. type of a pattern. For two notes per string he said he prefers to start on an up stroke and alternate picks.

Early on I learned from Paul Gilbert instructional videos how important right hand technique is when playing multiple notes per string cleanly.

Personally I am more of a fan of legato and strict alternate picking myself. Economy picking can be a real bear at times.
 
I struggled with strict alternate picking during my ‘formative’ years when I got really serious about playing guitar. I could cop most of the Paul Gilbert alternate patterns by using ‘inside’ picking - where I’m using downstrokes on the thinner strings and upstrokes coming back to the thicker strings. Anywhere PG necessarily used the ‘outside’ cross, I would economy pick. I now economy pick both directions with ‘inside alternate’ picking for the traditional PG / Racer-X Patterns. I always use downstrokes when moving from thicker to thinner strings and I always use upstrokes when moving from thinner to thicker strings. It’s weird - and does not lend itself to most of the Eric Johnson groups of 5 library. It also gets in the way of some rhythmic things when the accent traditionally falls on the ‘and’ of a beat, which with economy picking is not always an ‘upstroke’ as it is with traditional, strict alternate picking. If I had it to do all over again, I would have FORCED myself to get comfortable with the traditional alternate picking method for consistency with rhythmic downbeats and upbeats Falling on down and up strokes. But long ago, I realized that I just play the way I play.
 
I'm not familiar with the Eric Johnson groups of 5 library or PG x patterns. I know that I naturally inside pick and occasionally economy pick small amounts but ever have had a strict approach. I see someone like Gus and then have to reassess it all.
 
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Exo-metal said:
I'm not familiar with the Eric Johnson groups of 5 library or PG x patterns. I know that I naturally inside pick and occasionally economy pick small amounts but ever have had a strict approach. I see someone like Gus and then have to reassess it all.
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You should check out Grady's video on EJ's "skip 5s" licks - it's on YouTube.

I'm not a big EJ fan, but that video was very illuminating and helpful with "odd" note groupings for me.
 
Being a lefty that plays righty, I always had a hard time picking.... so economy and some strategic legato stuff helps me to be able to play fast. lots of times I'm not picking every note, but you cant tell.
 
After years and years of alternate picking and being pretty good with it, there were always passages that I just could not reach. About a year ago I switched and really focused on economy picking. It’s was weird and hard and slow, but after some time it became really easy and natural. I would suggest to anyone to spend some time to learn it and get used to it, well worth it. I know that may be hard for some as I didn’t want to hear any about economy picking for more than 20 years.

A mix of legato, economy and alternate with pick slanting is well worth the practice in this ever ending quest we never reach…but the journeys awesome
 
stratjacket said:
A mix of legato, economy and alternate with pick slanting is well worth the practice in this ever ending quest we never reach…but the journeys awesome
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This has always been the answer, for me; it’s not even a choice, really, it’s just what works for a given passage.
 
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Legato is legato but strictly speaking, alternate and economy both involve picking every note. I hear alternate picking as sounding more 'metronome' like with more distinction between the end of one note and the beginning of another while economy sounds more fluid, with each note flowing into the next. I wonder if there's a correlation between theory based players preferring alternate whereas more 'intuitive' players may prefer economy.
 
Here is a lesson I did for someone. I edited down since it was long. But here I was showing economy picking and staying in a specific area of the neck. I’m doing a lot of slides and pull-offs that you can’t always hear. Of course I’m just playing some bullshit that’s been done for decades… but it’s what he wanted 😂

 
Exo-metal said:
What's going on here Dave!?!?! This isn't helping lol
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All economy picking with each string change starting with a down stroke... both ascending and descending. If I cant move to another string with a downstroke, I'll use a pull off or hammer on to compensate to ensure the the down stroke for economy. By playing like this I dont have to start an alternate picking on an upstroke. Of course there are times I use upstrokes for tonality changes. I tend to use upstrokes for chords to make the plain strings really pop.
 
psychodave said:
If I cant move to another string with a downstroke, I'll use a pull off or hammer on to compensate to ensure the the down stroke for economy.
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How do you know when that change will come? How can you make that part of your muscle memory so you don't even think about it?
 
Exo-metal said:
The clip would be better if we could see your R hand.
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This clip shows more of my right hand. You can see when the fast sections come I’ve already setup my picking for downstrokes. The one last speed run has 3 notes and a slide so I end on an upstroke since there are 4 notes and I started on a downstroke.

 
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Metalhex said:
How do you know when that change will come? How can you make that part of your muscle memory so you don't even think about it?
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When in doubt I’ll do a pull off or hammer on to make sure my pick is ready for a down stroke for another passage… especially if I know it will be a 3 notes per string run. If I’m on the high E for a while and want to change, I do what I said above, use legato pull offs to position the pick. All of the licks I use have been thought out to be like this.
 
Alternate picking notes or picking alternative facts, Dave is a virtuoso at one of those things.
 
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