Marshall Super Lead with Mods - Too Bright

I should have mentioned that I retubed this with TAD EL34cz and china 12ax7b and a ruby china 12ax7 hg+ V1. Biased to 32ma at 117v wall.
I added more to my last post, but I would recommend other tubes than that. Not honestly a fan of those. Old Mullard’s both in the pre and powertubes tend to add more low end punch and might help somewhat with the brightness you mentioned (but hard to say for sure and don’t expect night and day differences, but subtle ones). The JAN Philips ECG’s for both pre and powertubes will also do that even more with lessening those upper mids and thickening things up more, but these tubes are all expensive, hard to come by, might not even really solve the problem and Philips and American tubes in general have a different midrange voicing to European tubes that can come off a bit awkward sounding in British amps depending on what you’re used to hearing
 
Ill make a video soon and show what I am talking about. I doubt I will mod anything being this was modded this way on purpose. I dont like the mid/high snarl that is like a tube about to blow up. Now this is how I explain it and it might be diffeent for someone else. But I wish I could dial that out, I assume its 3-5k range. Then add some umph from the bottom end and get more low punch.
Even a quick cell phone vid would give us a LOT more information, so that'd help alot in narrowing it down.

Everyone here has a lot of experiences with plexis and modded plexis, and that would be the simplest way to figure out how to get all on the same page.

When you get a chance, take one real quick, and i have a feeling we can all sort of narrow down the options. It might be something inherent in your guitar/cab, it might be something thats best helped with EQ, it might be best with a quick mod, it could be tubes as brain said, it all just depends.
 
I don't think a single poster has refuted the fact that a long coiled cord is going to effect your guitar signal.
What is being scoffed at is that anyone these days (not back in the 60s and 70s when options were limited)
would choose a coiled guitar cord to solve an EQ issue.
Sure, however, the OP added they have dialed in 0 trebs and 0 presence because of overbearing high end. They also added that they have a V30 in their rig. Yes, Greenbacks are different from a V30 in tone. However, they don't have a tone with those zeros to begin with. The Greenbacks are a common V30 switch-out to tame things down and retain the tone they want. If they had tone with the V30 already, then fine, Greenbacks will be a different tone in that case. Here I am suggesting they will get tone with that switch because it will make the sweet spots accessible on the amp, currently on zeros.

Another way around that problem is to tame that signal and use what the amp can do with those features. High-end roll-off is perfect, which is what cable length does and why coiled works.

If an EQ pedal is sufficient to do what they want to do, then go with that. However how much does one need to keep EQing at an amp before just realizing it's the wrong amp for that rig?

Anyway, I hope the cable method helps someone out and also explains why some people with lots of cable in pedalboards suddenly find no high end. It all adds up if you don't buffer.
 
Sure, however, the OP added they have dialed in 0 trebs and 0 presence because of overbearing high end. They also added that they have a V30 in their rig. Yes, Greenbacks are different from a V30 in tone. However, they don't have a tone with those zeros to begin with. The Greenbacks are a common V30 switch-out to tame things down and retain the tone they want. If they had tone with the V30 already, then fine, Greenbacks will be a different tone in that case. Here I am suggesting they will get tone with that switch because it will make the sweet spots accessible on the amp, currently on zeros.

Another way around that problem is to tame that signal and use what the amp can do with those features. High-end roll-off is perfect, which is what cable length does and why coiled works.

If an EQ pedal is sufficient to do what they want to do, then go with that. However how much does one need to keep EQing at an amp before just realizing it's the wrong amp for that rig?

Anyway, I hope the cable method helps someone out and also explains why some people with lots of cable in pedalboards suddenly find no high end. It all adds up if you don't buffer.
Now that the OP is getting a little more specific, it seems to me that he’s not liking the upper mids more than the actual high end, which makes more sense since that’s more where V30’s can get a bit much more than the actual higher treble frequencies imo. Doesn’t hurt to try the cable, but IME that’s going to little to nothing if it’s more about those upper mids. I also just am not a fan of an approach of doing something that in some ways degrades the tone to fix a problem with brightness. If something like high quality vintage tubes works then it’s more a win-win situation because those will in almost every way enhance the tone and give more tonal benefits than just taming brightness if they even are adequately successful there (still might not work). Much more to gain there imo and the ones I suggested can provide more low end punch that he also wanted
 
Here is a video from the first day I got it vs a Friedman ss100. I was just learning the marshall at the time. Horrible video and bad playing and sound. But it’s something.


 
Here is a video from the first day I got it vs a Friedman ss100. I was just learning the marshall at the time. Horrible video and bad playing and sound. But it’s something.




Yeah you can tell that’s painfully bright, there’s nothing else in the core amp tone to fill it out. It does sound good though.

Personally Id check to see what negative feedback tap and NFB resistor value are used. One thing is for sure, no coil cable is going to fix that much brightness.
 
It's probably been mentioned, but if not, the Chinese 8th/9th are great tubes but can be on the bright side vs Telefunken/Ei, Amperex, or even JJs...pretty subtle but they will darken your tone to a degree vs the Chinese.
 
Yeah you can tell that’s painfully bright, there’s nothing else in the core amp tone to fill it out. It does sound good though.

Personally Id check to see what negative feedback tap and NFB resistor value are used. One thing is for sure, no coil cable is going to fix that much brightness.

100k and off the speaker Jack. It’s a 16 ohm cab so this should be the least dark.

It sounds great. Just bright. I overpaid for this because of who did the mod. I think they will increase in value over time. But it also sounded good. The guy before was all vh all the time and he had everything set to 7 and it sounded great for him, same cab too. Only difference was his playing and his guitar had a super distortion.
 
Here is a video from the first day I got it vs a Friedman ss100. I was just learning the marshall at the time. Horrible video and bad playing and sound. But it’s something.



I think I can hear what you were describing before. Honestly, I think it might just not be the amp for you, but if you wanna keep it still I definitely would start with swapping the v30’s for literally almost anything else. Greenbacks of some sort would be a good starting point. It does sound good to me overall still

There is that unpleasant uppermid thing you were describing, not ideal balance and seems thin overall, but maybe if you just get more low end punch it could balance out and sound better. Tubes or eq pedal can help, but I don’t think would be enough and certainly not a longer cable. I don’t know if there’s really anything other than mods that’ll work and they still might not. If it were my amp I would want a depth knob for deeper bottom end, but I dunno, I think I hear what you mean and not sure if anything can be done to really get it done fully. I guess the more technical guys here would know
 
Last edited:
100k and off the speaker Jack. It’s a 16 ohm cab so this should be the least dark.

It sounds great. Just bright. I overpaid for this because of who did the mod. I think they will increase in value over time. But it also sounded good. The guy before was all vh all the time and he had everything set to 7 and it sounded great for him, same cab too. Only difference was his playing and his guitar had a super distortion.
You said you’re using a JB? What guitar? Different pickup could help a little maybe. Those Dimarzio’s you mentioned would have that effect, but not my preferred pickups. I’d go with either a Wagner Iron Man or maybe Arcane Lynch if doable, but again can only do so much
 
V30s and Marshalls...NOT the best combo IMO. Now, a Jubilee does work well with them, any version, but beyond that I wouldn't use any version V30 with 1 exception...the first version, 8 ohm Marshall Vintage. They are far less bright than the ensuing versions.
Live, sure, they cut like a razor but alone without a band, in your basement/studio/wherever it's just mids on top of more mids. Very grating to my ears. My 72 Tremolo is at home through either or both cabs; a 72 Pulsonic 1221 slant and a 79 slant with 65s. GBs, 65s, CL80s, anything other than V30s will sound better and will have far less upper mids to pile on top of the upper mids the Marshall already has plenty of.
 
You said you’re using a JB? What guitar? Different pickup could help a little maybe. Those Dimarzio’s you mentioned would have that effect, but not my preferred pickups. I’d go with either a Wagner Iron Man or maybe Arcane Lynch if doable, but again can only do so much

Kramer nightswan here but there are many guitars around.

The cab is a friedman with mix v30/green. Its not all v30.
 
Your clip sounds good to me....that upper mid 'zing' that amp has is kinda the norm for these amps. My 72 is the same way.

I was playing mostly Boogie and Bogner a while back and then added the Germino, which is a 68-69 era 1987 clone.

Took a bit getting back use to that massive upper midrange kerrang vs the B&B chewy lower mid tones for sure.
 
Last edited:
100k and off the speaker Jack. It’s a 16 ohm cab so this should be the least dark.

It sounds great. Just bright.

Bingo we have the reason. 16 ohm is the most negative feedback giving the cleanest power amp side and most dynamic range, but with preamp bypass capacitors you run the risk of emphasizing super high frequencies undesired.

Since it’s off the speaker Jack I recommend getting an 8 ohm cab of V30s and you’ll find your problem is likely resolved.
 
Bingo we have the reason. 16 ohm is the most negative feedback giving the cleanest power amp side and most dynamic range, but with preamp bypass capacitors you run the risk of emphasizing super high frequencies undesired.

Since it’s off the speaker Jack I recommend getting an 8 ohm cab of V30s and you’ll find your problem is likely resolved.

Can you explain this? I thought 16 ohm would make it most nfb and all frequencies come through, including low and mid. So it would mellow the amp out.

What happens if this was the 4 or 8 ohm tap?

And what happens with a 100k in parallel to make it 50k (47k)?
 
Can you explain this? I thought 16 ohm would make it most nfb and all frequencies come through, including low and mid. So it would mellow the amp out.

What happens if this was the 4 or 8 ohm tap?

And what happens with a 100k in parallel to make it 50k (47k)?

First you have to understand a bit of history.

In 1972 they used 16 ohm taps carried over from the late 60s. When a bypass cap was introduced across the first stage evolved from a shared cathode, the brightness increased. They adjusted it by dropping the NFB to 4 ohm for EL34 and 8 ohm for 6550 USA bound amps with the JMP line later on.

When you mod a circuit and add or modify bypass cathode caps, especially across the 820 ohm resistor in the 3rd stage, you emphasize even more highs than intended including whatever cutoff frequency is chosen to boost mids.

Later on when Marshall changed to 8 ohm and 4 ohm, they also increased the NFB resistor to further reduce NFB. Certain years of course have different values but that’s typical Marshall experimentation for the time.

The more NFB, the more stiff and linear the amp becomes across all frequencies including undesired ones if the preamp has been tweaked.

The less NFB the more raw it becomes and the less dynamic range, which means your loudness of highs to lows are not equally controlled and can differ in loudness because the dynamic range has been deceased. You’re changing the gain bandwidth product with the ratio of NFB from the NFB resistor, shunt resistor in parallel with the presence pot, and the tap used. 16 ohm tap provides the most NFB, 8 ohm is 3dB less than 16 ohm, 4 ohm is 6 dB less than 16 ohm. You can further reduce NFB by increasing the NFB resistor as mentioned earlier. Some prefer no NFB at all, but I do prefer it with a depth and presence.

So, since he modded yours to be to the speaker Jack, you’re using 16 ohm feedback to a 16 ohm cab. Your stages are bypassed, meaning youre experiencing ear bleeding brightness.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top