scottosan
Well-known member
The classic is a whole other animal I’ve owned 3
ZEN Amps YouTube thread - Friedman Dirty Shirley 40W vid up
- Thread starter ZEN Amps
- Start date
braintheory
Well-known member
Yeah I remember liking the classic more, but still smooth, polite/tame/not raw vs a good vintage Marshall or other vintage amps. I remember liking most I think the early version 101B before they got more gainy and compressed (I think I heard the classic was based on it), haven’t tried a 100B or A, but quite a few amps I’ve had or still have imho rendered all the XTC’s I’ve tried obsolete for me
scottosan
Well-known member
I also had an early white chassis 101b. Very rigid sounding in comparison to the later 101bs
ZEN Amps
Well-known member
Don't get me wrong, I love my old Marshalls, our small box JMP50 and JMP 2203 are practically unbeatable for raw rock n' roll tones.
However to balance the argument I will say that they are not for everyone, and a lot of modern players don't like the grit and lack of thump for heavier styles. The criticism often aimed at Bogner, Friedman, Diezel etc for not having that raw Marshall aggression is all well and good, but if they did then they'd be pale imitators, and not modern day classics.
I don't want my XTC to sound like a 2203 - the trademark Bogner growl exists because of how it deviates from a Marshall, and that's a beautiful thing!
These comments aren't directed at anyone in particular, just based on observations over the years and probably pretty obvious to most of you. But it is valid argument for more amps = the good life.
However to balance the argument I will say that they are not for everyone, and a lot of modern players don't like the grit and lack of thump for heavier styles. The criticism often aimed at Bogner, Friedman, Diezel etc for not having that raw Marshall aggression is all well and good, but if they did then they'd be pale imitators, and not modern day classics.
I don't want my XTC to sound like a 2203 - the trademark Bogner growl exists because of how it deviates from a Marshall, and that's a beautiful thing!
These comments aren't directed at anyone in particular, just based on observations over the years and probably pretty obvious to most of you. But it is valid argument for more amps = the good life.
braintheory
Well-known member
Well that's part of why a lot of us have long tone quests since none of these amps seem to have it all. I don't think anyone with healthy testerone levels will complain about the grit or rawness of Marshall's (brightness sure), the thump/deeper/extended low end however I think you're right on point with why they don't really cut it for heavier styles. That's why a lot of my favorite amps have some blend of both raw/gritty and bottom end: mark iic+ (non-simul), early revision recto's, good modded Marshall's. The '90's Diezel's (pre-silverface) fwiw were more raw sounding and just light years better sounding than the later ones sadly as is also with the Bogner's (and most brands it seems), but they were never raw sounding. It seems to be me like maybe Bogner was one of the first amps to go for a more polished sound and imo did it better and uniquely than Friedman's
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I agree too, each have their place. I love my Marshalls (JMP50 and a SL100) for what they do. They sound magnificent in a live mix too. But I fatigue quickly of that over-bright and raw tone when in isolation in a room. What sounds great on stage doesn't translate to isolated in room tones, as everyone knows.
The others do that "Hi-fi" / "Recorded" tone much better and are easier to play for longer periods without following days of temporary high end deafness from the Marshalls in the zone. And at the end of the day most of the Marshalls we hear on albums have been eq'd, compressed, low passed and shelved well beyond what it'd be standing in the room.
The others do that "Hi-fi" / "Recorded" tone much better and are easier to play for longer periods without following days of temporary high end deafness from the Marshalls in the zone. And at the end of the day most of the Marshalls we hear on albums have been eq'd, compressed, low passed and shelved well beyond what it'd be standing in the room.
braintheory
Well-known member
They can be shaped though a lot depending on speakers, guitars, pickups and what boost you use (if used), and even heavily shaped by pedals that are turned off but function like a buffer. With my ‘72 Superlead 100 I can rely more on the darker input when jumpering for a darker, richer sound if desired. The 1967 and earlier Marshall’s IME all actually sound quite dark without kerrang and many of the modded Marshall’s I’ve had don’t have as much of that really bright, fatiguing quality. What they do all have in common though is the rawness and very lively sound/feel/response that make those other smooth/polite amps come off dead/sterile comparatively regardless of eq, whether the Marshall is sounding darker or Friedman or Bogner dialed in bright. This to me is a huge shortcoming in the sound of recent made gear (the lack of life to the sound), at least 99% of it other than some exceptions like Alessandro’s, but even those aren’t all the way there
Fair enough. It does seem that an amount of work around is needed for most to achieve that sound though, like compensating through speakers, guitars, pedals, Mods etc...
I agree they sound awesome, but my other amps don't need as much compensating to sound optimal in the room. I'd rather leave the Marshalls unmodded. Maybe I'm just too lazy to chase it that much just yet, I just use them in smaller doses to save my ears.
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ZEN Amps
Well-known member
Yeah I think so, the XTC really does have something cool going on.
chris lykins
Active member
I love my old 101b. Its one of the few amps that somehow make you play better than you are.
Beyond Black
Well-known member
These guys could make Bonamassa GAS for a Gorilla.You guys are gonna be responsible for so many depleted bank accounts with these incredible vids
Beyond Black
Well-known member
Another amazing demo, Zen, you guys are batting a thousand. Im also more of a 2203/JCM800 guy. The Jube is a great amp, but compared to those it’s too smooth and polite for my tastes.
mooncobra
Well-known member
Bogners are killer amps. I like a few models a lot. Reinhold is a great builder.
ZEN Amps
Well-known member
I hate the word 'influencer', but if we've influenced just one grown-man to quit fiddling with his Katana and buy a proper amp...well it's all been worth it.You guys are gonna be responsible for so many depleted bank accounts with these incredible vids
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Standing directly in front of a cab while a super lead does its thing is just stupid. I stand off to the side and it still sounds glorious. Better than any amp I've owned, will own, or care to even play.I wonder if the Marshall purists out there have just played too loud for too long. They can no longer hear the grating, ear bleed Marshall highs that fatigue normal humans after 30 minutes of playing.
Although I have to admit, the Rev C I recently got is damn incredible.