V
VESmedic
Well-known member
V30s sound bad in a full mix? lol ok!
N
Nigel
Guest
I was once in a band that had two horns, two guitars, violin and two vocals. Swapped my beloved T4335 for a ‘97 UK 16 ohm and the cut was back. ?
Zado
Well-known member
Yup, don't need to believe me, but I play in a dual guitar rock band, I use a V30 loaded cab and the other guy a T75 one. You can definitely hear the V30, it cuts, but doesn't sing like say a greenback. At all. Full mids and no bite.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
V30s are all over the map depending on model.
<-----------------------I have a stock '84 1960A that gets as much or more use than any of my cabs. Love it.
<-----------------------I have a stock '84 1960A that gets as much or more use than any of my cabs. Love it.
F
fearhk213
Well-known member
Maybe not quite as loud as piss but pretty darn close haha. Once the volume is up a bit the top end smooths out and they're not quite as sharp, so you get a more balanced and fuller sounding tone than at super low bedroom volumes. Even at volume they still won't have the mid range content of a V30, so they generally get along best with mid range heavy amps.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Well, either way, as opinion based as this is, I’m not even sure your opinion is right, even with it being just an opinion. Considering the hundreds and thousands of records of all types of music done with a V30, and the thousands of bands who use V30s live with all types of music, I’m hard pressed to say your opinion can even be validated. Sure, maybe you don’t like the way they sound, ok fine. That’s one thing, but saying they don’t cut? That’s something differently entirely. Something in 20 years I don’t think I’ve EVER heard about V30s, let alone experienced myself.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
A 96 16 ohm celestion Marshall vintage or 75? Because even though I completely disagree and don’t think they sound at all the same, the V30 is supposedly based on the G12 vintage, soooo. I mean they are similar for sure, but either way, the celestion Marshall G12 vintage speaker is my favorite speaker on the planet.
N
Nigel
Guest
It’s a regular Celestion label V30, not Mesa or Marshall spec. It does something weird in the mids and I want to sell it. All of my 90’s UK V30’s do it.
That said, it cut better than the Mesa 8 ohm with all the other stuff going on.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
He’s actually agreeing with you that it cuts well, but just doesn’t like the way they sound and that they don’t sing. I would agree that they don’t sing too well, but pretty much all non-vintage speakers leave a lot to be desired in that regard, but for the kinda metal you do that’s not generally gonna matter as much. The V30’s definitely have plenty of cut. I don’t think anyone has ever really argued that. They’re to me a little bit like the speaker equivalent of an SM57. They cut, almost always get the job done, sits very well, but imo just never sounds truly exceptional or extraordinary, just very solid/good and very functional. I’m personally interested in just the exceptional/holy grail level tones, not “very nice” (life’s too short for that), but I guess those are just a couple components/tonal ingredients and so an exceptional tone I think can definitely still be achieved if other gear in the rig is at that level
Last edited:
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
I read alittle fast on that one I admit. But even still, sounding bad in a full mix? Even still, that’s just such a wide generalization on a speaker. Of course it’s all opinion, but at the end of the day, just about anything we all talk crap about on a guitar forum has probably been used to get stellar tones, there’s just no doubt about it. V30s obviously very much included. I see what you mean about v30s getting the job done, but at the same time, Atleast for the music I track and enjoy, those producers can literally use anything they want. Anything. Any speaker. Any mic etc. and predominantly tend to go with some variation of a V30/SM57 combo. And it’s because it sounds great, and not “just works and gets the job done”.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
I never said or felt it sounds at all bad in a bad mix, rather the opposite. I think it sounds very good in a band mix, but there are some exceptional older speakers I’ve got that to me honesty make V30’s obsolete and comparatively uninspiring sounding. Sometimes it may take more work than a V30 to mix well since a v30 just naturally works so well, but imo well worth the extra effort to get exceptional level tones
Of course, with producers today they can make those V30’s sound great. For my friend’s re-amp 2 years ago we used a cab of mine with v30’s. It sounded very good, but not amazing, but after the producer he used worked on it, it sounded killer. He used an SM57 as well. So yes I’m not disagreeing with you, but with my friend’s last re-amp session a few months ago we used all the best gear I had then (it’s even better now) and the raw tones he got totally humiliate what we had in that older setup and I’m sure once the producer gets a hold of it, it’ll sound amazing. This producer he’s using he said worked on Radiohead and many other famous bands. I myself am a nobody and know very little about recording, won’t make any strong opinions on that, but my friend is a very talented musician and likes to have me dial in and bring my gear for his stuff and I enjoy the process
In a nutshell I feel (just my opinion) V30’s will be like an 8-9/10, sits well, not as much tweaking necessary, but imo it’s worth the extra money and effort to get closer to that 10/10 level tone. Everything in life from my experience needs more than twice the cost and/or time to squeeze out that last few percent to get to that truly top level like with a iic+ vs the next best alternatives or rev c/d Recto’s vs later ones, a real Klon, real Dumble, etc. To me this is where the real magic or “it” factor happens and the thing that got me hooked on gear and tone. Many think I’m nuts and maybe I am, but so be it
Last edited:
cardinal
Well-known member
Well I'm still loving this stupid JCM 900 cab. Such a bonus that I like it's sound on casters, to boot.
Not sure if my tastes have changed, my hearing has become damaged, or what, but I know I've played these before but didn't like them nearly as much. Whatever. Happy now. And I always like it when I'm happy with "ordinary" gear over boutique unobtainium stuff.
Not sure if my tastes have changed, my hearing has become damaged, or what, but I know I've played these before but didn't like them nearly as much. Whatever. Happy now. And I always like it when I'm happy with "ordinary" gear over boutique unobtainium stuff.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Just to clarify my comments were directed at Zado who did specifically say they sound bad in a mix just FYI. But good story, love hearing stories like this.
N
Nigel
Guest
What speaker do you prefer?
Mic pre’s are key too, my Sytek MPX-iia sounds good (1&2) but the J-FET channels (3&4 ~ like Burr-Brown) sound GREAT with a V30 and 57.
Andy Sneep said 80% of mix decisions are done by simply using a Mesa 4x12. I firmly believe a lot of what folks dislike about V30’s is that they are not the original spec, which Mesa has preserved via negotiation.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
I’m really not at all knowledgeable yet with recording gear. He has lots of different mic’s and pre’s that he uses. I can’t remember all of them, but he did have some sort of Neve 1073, Burl, Camden, and others I can’t remember. He has made it very clear to me through different comparisons how important pre-amps are and the voicings of each, so I agree. For my friend’s re-amp I let him handle all that stuff with what he likes. For mics he had an SM57, 2 Neumann TLM102, a vintage ribbon (not sure what it was), and many more that I don’t remember. Like I said, I just let him handle that stuff. It was his music. Maybe if I knew this stuff like I know my guitar gear, I would’ve recommended totally different stuff, but I’m not as interested in going nearly as deep into that rabbit hole right now
I like V30’s (and agree about the Mesa ones) they’re just imo not the very best ever. Some of my all time favorite speakers are ‘60’s Alnico Blues (they’re like the Dumble of speakers to me, but not for metal), early Fane Crescendo’s with clamps rather than soldering lugs, Orange Frame JBL D120F’s (also like E120’s and K120’s), 20 watt GB’s. They’re not cheap, but magical tone imo. The only non-vintage speakers that have their place still for me are heritage 20 watt GB’s and Alnico Gold’s. I haven’t used either of those 2 in a while now actually, but maybe later will install them in something
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
i can tell you, going from no mic pre ( other than my audio interfaces mic preamp) to a warm audio 1073 clone, to now having 2 BAE 1073 clones, that adding those was a life changing experience for my guitar tones in a mix, and I truly mean that. Like you were saying, you will pay big money for that last 10-15 percent, and while the BAE’s add that extra 15-20 percent, that 15-20 percent is just as drastic and pronounced as the original 80 percent was, if that makes any sense. My guitar tones are now starting to sound like those of an actual record, and they were a huge part of it.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
I will definitely have one of those 1073’s in my arsenal eventually. They were my favorite for electric guitar, but the Burl and Camden were also good. Camden was the clear winner to me for classical guitar (my main thing) of what he had, 1073 not so much, so I got 2 of those and they also sound good for electric, so lotta versatility with them and they’re cheap. For classical guitar tube mic’s also are way way better (not on electric). Seems like I’ll have to get one of those or also a ribbon
N
Nigel
Guest
This is some real rig-talk, fellas. Bravo!
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
Yes absolutely... mic pres are not discussed enough at all, and when certain ones are used or not used etc. this is something I often only see discussed with friends of mine who make extremely successful records. Or gearslutz, but even still, not in a truly professional real world experience detailed account. I think a lot of this is because at this level, the changes may seem subtle, or people don’t realize what they are hearing or not hearing, and how it will relate to the mix or the performance etc. you can’t take an average run of the mill guitar player, and then place them in a studio, start auditioning mic pres and really expect them to understand the differences. You just can’t. You have to build up to that level I think. I know I had to. Sure an API is fast, and neve style preamps are often harmonically rich and thick in the low end with a nice sheen up top, but if you don’t know when to use either or, it’s hard to know when each is appropriate. I myself feel the 1073 is appropriate for just about anything rock/metal, as API’s are too big, and add a lot of “extra” that you don’t need, on guitars Atleast. Drums are a different story.
But, it’s often the piece of the puzzle that is missing for most in the chain if they have killer amps, decent player, decent micing technique... and also YES, a GREAT interface. It is necessary, despite what YouTube clowns like glenn “ I don’t actually make records” fricker says. It matters tremendously.
cardinal
Well-known member
I love that a thread about a cheap 4x12 is now about $3k mic pres haha