2204 Overloading a 100 watt Greenback Cab or…?

[Bardagh]

Just got a 2204 in a trade on here and it sounds great but I’m surprised that when running it into my Mojotone 1960 cab with Greenbacks (Mojo Watchtowers which IIRC are relabeled Celestion G12C’s) with the Volume only at 2 (which is loud, granted) the speakers are farting out on resonant palm mutes. My cabs are in a separate soundproofed room so this is something I was picking up loud and clear from a close mic, not a room resonance or anything.

I was previously running a JJ-100, which of course had a much thicker tone with more apparent bass, and obviously twice the nominal output, yet I can’t recall it ever making this cab fart out.

There shouldn’t be any way that 50 watt JCM 800 is pushing these speakers harder than a 100 watt Friedman, right?

 

[Briman24]

Something doesn't sound right. Tubes done?

 

[RaceU4her]

id say go over and make sure everything is tight, a couple times over the years i thought i blew a speaker or something and it was just a loose back panel or handle vibrating, shit drove me nuts a couple times

 

[Bardagh]

Alright so I’m going to go loose screw hunting I guess, but it really sounds like the speakers farting out with how it comes across on the mic.

Compared to my other amps (except my Deluxe Reverb) the 2204 is super uncompressed. Obviously it’s not like it’s a bass heavy amp or something, but the bass resonances it hits are super punchy and hard hitting, even when you dial the bass knob down to where the amp thins out otherwise. I wonder if that is what the speakers are having trouble handling.

Also wonder if maybe the speakers are not totally broken in and maybe this will shake out of I keep running them with this amp. I got them new in 2020 and while I’ve used them a lot, it’s mostly been at moderate levels with amps that are more controlled and compressed like the JJ and Deliverance (which can be quite punchy but I usually have it set up for a tighter/gainy sound).

 

[Briman24]

I am gonna guess that your power tubes are super worn. From my experience, when power tubes get really old, the bottom end gets really loose and flabby.

 

[Bardagh]

I am gonna guess that your power tubes are super worn. From my experience, when power tubes get really old, the bottom end gets really loose and flabby.

Fortunately, Nesstone had some EL34 in stock and is not trying to rape everyone with their prices, so when I get them in hand we'll see if that has anything to do with it, provided I don't find any resolution within the cab itself.

 

[stratjacket]

That’s a head scratcher. The JJ has a bright switch, have you played with that to see if it’s can make the cab fart?
Perhaps get all the settings the same on each amp at low volume, so they sound as close as possible. Then crank and see what level the cab farts for each?

 

[Briman24]

I can't think of any issue a cab could have to cause low end fartiness. Maybe the guy took out his good tubes and stuck in some old shitty ones before shipping? With the recent panic about tubes going on......that wouldn't surprise me. But if it's someone you know and trust.... then maybe not.

 

[Bardagh]

That’s a head scratcher. The JJ has a bright switch, have you played with that to see if it’s can make the cab fart?
Perhaps get all the settings the same on each amp at low volume, so they sound as close as possible. Then crank and see what level the cab farts for each?

Well I had a JJ, now I have a 2204. The JJ’s bright switch is only on the clean channel btw. But that’s kind of what I’m wondering, how the 2204 is more uncompressed kind of like a cleaner amp would be, and you know how if crank up a clean amp and then hit it hard, that signal can be harder on a speaker than what you get from a lot of “lead” channels where the preamp gain compresses the peaks of the signal and so on.

The reason I mentioned the JJ was just that was the amp that I always ran through this cab and I recorded it frequently and never had this issue despite it nominally having twice the output power. Granted I had a sweet spot already figured out where the JJ and the cab worked well together for recording purposes and it was loud but hard to say if it was quite as loud because my cabs are in a separate soundproofed room.

 

[tonesfoyobones]

Had a very similar issue. Picked up a Diezel Herbert a while back. Upon playing a few days I started noticing a farting out sound at low to medium volumes. I tracked it down to what I thought was a blown speaker. Bought one and replaced it. Didn't fix it. I took the back off the cab and did some closer inspections. Lol turns out that the Herbert's low end frequencies wallowed out the screws that hold the front baffle on the cab. I saw some saw dust type debris at the bottom of the cab. Here the baffle was rattling causing the sound I was hearing. It didn't do it with any other of the amps that I had at the time even at higher volumes which I seldom play at since it's a home amp. apparently the Herbert hit those certain frequencies that none of my other amps did. That damn Herbert blew 2 front baffle trims out of two Marshall 4x12's! That's the day that I learned that some of those power house big boy amplifiers need front loaded cabs!
May not be your situation but never did I suspect it to be loose wood rattling.

 

[RaceU4her]

Had a very similar issue. Picked up a Diezel Herbert a while back. Upon playing a few days I started noticing a farting out sound at low to medium volumes. I tracked it down to what I thought was a blown speaker. Bought one and replaced it. Didn't fix it. I took the back off the cab and did some closer inspections. Lol turns out that the Herbert's low end frequencies wallowed out the screws that hold the front baffle on the cab. I saw some saw dust type debris at the bottom of the cab. Here the baffle was rattling causing the sound I was hearing. It didn't do it with any other of the amps that I had at the time even at higher volumes which I seldom play at since it's a home amp. apparently the Herbert hit those certain frequencies that none of my other amps did. That damn Herbert blew 2 front baffle trims out of two Marshall 4x12's! That's the day that I learned that some of those power house big boy amplifiers need front loaded cabs!
May not be your situation but never did I suspect it to be loose wood rattling.

this is exactly what i mean

 

[Racerxrated]

Another thing to check/change out might be the filter caps. I had an 83 2203 that sounded like yours; plus being on the thin side and it was a combination of underbiased 6550s (10-17ma) and 2 leaky caps. Once fixed it roared

 

[Mikeyboyeee]

My 2203 rattles things in my room that my 2 superleads don't at same volume. Weird.

 

[stephen sawall]

Try the amp with a other cab and see what does maybe.
You only have a few variables. Should be easy to narrow down. Hopefully anyway.

 

[panhead]

Somethings up. I run 100 watt jmp into single greenback cab 5-6 on vol. its tight

 

[Bardagh]

Alright....running it through my Mesa cab and the low end still sounds weird and now it's making further strange static kind of noises if I do something like let a big low chord ring out. I got this in a trade from lowmantotempole and I don't think he was trying to pull one over on me or anything but there's definitely something up and I think it's from the amp. Going to upload a sound clip...I am starting to wonder about filter caps with this static kind of sound.

 

[gtrwun]

What Racer said above. Filter caps, power tubes, bias.
The other thing I used to do on my 4x12’s, I would add a screw to secure the center post from the baffle to the back panel. That help cut down vibration.

 

[Briman24]

My money is on tubes

 

[Bardagh]

Through the V30 cab, controls all halfway except MV at 3. Preamp starts out at 6 and then at the end I drop it to 4. At lower preamp levels the noises aren't as noticeable, but still there. On chords with more high end content you can really start to hear that staticky wash. I would have to do another clip with a bunch of palm muting to really show how the low end is falling apart. At this MV level turning the preamp up much past 6 and the whole thing starts getting super muddy and indistinct in general.

 

[tonesfoyobones]

I've heard something like that before. It was the output transformer fix for that amp. Some coils vibrating inside if I remember correctly??