4x12 vs 2x12 in a band setting/live - your experience?

[thiswaythatway]

I used the vertical Mesa Recto cab with V30's for tons of gigs and it sounded really really good. I had a 4x12 basketweave Marshall with old Greenbacks and I only brought that out ot a show here or there. For the past few years I've been going through a lot of 2x12's but I haven't been gigging. Honestly, Ive never been that happy with most of the horizontal 2x12's out there, and I've owned the one's that people like such as the Bogner OS2x12, Port City, Avatar, and a few Mesa's. The worst of which is a Bogner OS I have now that sounds like ham fisted ass chunks. Really aweful sounding, I'm guessing though that it's a case of English V30's not broken in. But the thing is nearly as big as a 4x12, takes up about the same floor space, and it's more expensive than tons of 4x12. And it doesn't sound nearly as good.

But this is the one that I think I had the best results with.

 

[troublehead]

I have a Mojotone 4x12 with Small Block 25's and a Splawn 2x12 with Small Blocks as well. The Splawn is easier to carry and actually sounds bigger/meatier than the Mojo. I'm guessing most of that is cab construction since the speakers are identical. The 4x12 stays in the rehearsal space........the 2x12 gets mic'd at gigs.

 

[verderacer]

Bogner OS I have now that sounds like ham fisted ass chunks.

Was that really necessary Really ? Bad visual image Dont think I will ever look at pork the same way again

 

[Flying V Man]

I use a 2x12 for indoor gigs and a 1960A for outdoor gigs. The 2x12 pretty much stays home as I haven't gigged indoors in a year and a half. The cabs are loaded with V-30's and G-12H 80's half and half

 

[glpg80]

2x12's for the punch and cutting attitude. 4x12's for the fullness and width/spread. i also prefer 4x12's if the speaker choices you make are a very large factor of your tone.

that being said when playing anything remotely similar to a large room, nothing replaces the sound and presence at volume of a 4x12. if you're playing small bar gig's then bringing a 4x12 might not be an option, therefore a 2x12 might be better.

each have their benefits. i played a 2x12 combo for two years before going to two 4x12's live, i have stuck with the 4x12's and never going back unless i have to

 

[maiden_fan]

I use a 2x12 (Framus) for 90% of my gigs, easy to cart around and especially in a 2 guitar band the combo of V30's really help it cut through. You do lose a little bass response and spread, but you gain in mids and focus.

 

[Spaceboy]

Setup the 2x12 on a table to get closer to ear height. 2x12s seem to get louder faster than 4x12s.

On stage, you get miked anyway, so what's the point of lugging around a 4x12?

 

[kasperjensen]

I personally like them better than 4x12s.

 

[glpg80]

Setup the 2x12 on a table to get closer to ear height. 2x12s seem to get louder faster than 4x12s.

On stage, you get miked anyway, so what's the point of lugging around a 4x12?

if you're playing outside and have in-ear monitors than a 2x12 is great. no in ears means you're relying on monitors to hear yourself because your stage volume suffers tremendously - 4x12's benefit over 2x12's in this instance by far.

 

[Spaceboy]

Setup the 2x12 on a table to get closer to ear height. 2x12s seem to get louder faster than 4x12s.

On stage, you get miked anyway, so what's the point of lugging around a 4x12?

if you're playing outside and have in-ear monitors than a 2x12 is great. no in ears means you're relying on monitors to hear yourself because your stage volume suffers tremendously - 4x12's benefit over 2x12's in this instance by far.

You could possibly setup the 2x12 some some sort of tiled stand, and use it like a monitor. Just thinking' out loud. 412s are friggin' heavy!

 

[glpg80]

Setup the 2x12 on a table to get closer to ear height. 2x12s seem to get louder faster than 4x12s.

On stage, you get miked anyway, so what's the point of lugging around a 4x12?

if you're playing outside and have in-ear monitors than a 2x12 is great. no in ears means you're relying on monitors to hear yourself because your stage volume suffers tremendously - 4x12's benefit over 2x12's in this instance by far.

You could possibly setup the 2x12 some some sort of tiled stand, and use it like a monitor. Just thinking' out loud. 412s are friggin' heavy!

pussies

in all honesty i hate that excuse - use truck ramps and a hand truck - not a single problem hauling cabinets, ever. the only problem here is when staircases are involved, but that would be a bitch with a 2x12 or a 4x12

you can try to run the lifted 2x12, t but then you're getting feedback into the mic stands or cannot hear the vocals in the monitor in front of you - this was the one gig/instance where there was absolutely no substitute for my 4x12's, i pointed the straight cabinet at the drummer so he could hear and the slant at myself so i could hear. ended up working out great

 

[nevusofota]

Setup the 2x12 on a table to get closer to ear height. 2x12s seem to get louder faster than 4x12s.

On stage, you get miked anyway, so what's the point of lugging around a 4x12?

if you're playing outside and have in-ear monitors than a 2x12 is great. no in ears means you're relying on monitors to hear yourself because your stage volume suffers tremendously - 4x12's benefit over 2x12's in this instance by far.

You could possibly setup the 2x12 some some sort of tiled stand, and use it like a monitor. Just thinking' out loud. 412s are friggin' heavy!

pussies

in all honesty i hate that excuse - use truck ramps and a hand truck - not a single problem hauling cabinets, ever. the only problem here is when staircases are involved, but that would be a bitch with a 2x12 or a 4x12

you can try to run the lifted 2x12, t but then you're getting feedback into the mic stands or cannot hear the vocals in the monitor in front of you - this was the one gig/instance where there was absolutely no substitute for my 4x12's, i pointed the straight cabinet at the drummer so he could hear and the slant at myself so i could hear. ended up working out great

All more reason to try a slanted vertical 2x12. Won't need a stand. Have two, one right next to you and one in the backline pointing at the crowd. Problems solved.

OK, what am I missing. The ONLY people that benefit from a certain size/make/ported/open or closed back/quality/sound of a cab in a mic'd/ PA situation is YOU and sometimes, but at a lesser extent, the BAND. I use the house monitors for the band mix without guitar and, as stated previously, put a guitar cab (w/ my taste in speakers) next to me so I can "feel" my playing (I hate my tone through stage monitors, especially in-ears. Yes this is a personal benefit). I guess that you could argue that a good sounding cab would inspire you and make your playing better from which the audience will benefit. But all these threads about which cab sounds better because its ported/solid birch/construction quality etc. really makes no sense to me in a live/band setting. Buy a cheap Carvin or Peavey 2x12, load in your speaker of choice (spend the money, time, effort, on the speakers as this DOES matter since your mic'ing it directly), and save your money and back. Also, it seems as if we should quit wasting time on the cab and spend more time on deciding which mic to use.

Also, cabs don't even make a sonic difference in recording unless your using a room mic. Correct me on this if I'm wrong, as I don't do much recording (though I did take many recording engineering classes in college so I may be able to follow your explanation )

Sorry, rant over Just never understood all the "which cab sounds better live" threads.

 

[glpg80]

I have to agree with the above, when i am playing in a band i dont have time to worry about my guitar sound, im worrying about the music, timing, and interacting with my buddies in the band and also the crowd. I need my guitar's to deliver on the mark in setup and expected tones - IE rolling back the volume knobs, trems set properly, etc. but as far as the rig is concerned - it only needs to work and not fail.

i dont use in-ears, i dont play large rooms enough to benefit from it or outdoors enough. I do enjoy the sound of a 2x12 better than a 4x12, but you have to crank the piss out of them. with a 4x12, i get more sound dispersion in the places i want it most without the negatives.

 

[lespaul3013]

1x12 set offstage with in-ears

 

['63-Strat]

In my experience live:

1. 4X12s sound better period. However...

2. Any cab can work so long as you are getting them up to equal height. Meaning one guy with a slant 4X12 and one guy with a closed-back 2X12 on the floor is a recipe for problems in FOH unless the guy with the 2X12 gets his cab up to the same height as the top 2 speakers in the 4X12 or tilts them back. Otherwise 2X12 guy is going to either have trouble hearing himself or will turn up too loud because his cab is shooting volume at his knees. If you don't like the sound of your rig with a speaker pointing at your ears that's a problem as that's what the audience/mic hears.

3. 2X12s and 4X12s take up the same amount of floor space and 4X12s aren't "louder" so the preference for smaller cabs for smaller gigs is purely visual/psychological IMO. Playing too loud for a given gig situation is a function of being a noob, not the size of the cab or wattage of the amp etc. Not to say that small amps aren't cool too, they are and I've gigged my 18 watt 1X10 superchamp combo recently with no problems.

4. 2X12s aren't really any easier to move around IMO. With my halfstack I can roll the whole thing with my small rack case on top and carry two guitars in one trip. With a 2X12 (assuming it has casters) you have to bend over to push/roll it and it's way more of a pain in the ass. Without casters they're even more annoying. Best solution is get a good hand cart and at that point any rig is easily moved. Stairs suck regardless but there have been very few gigs around here I've had to deal with stairs, honestly.

 

[nevusofota]

In my experience live:

1. 4X12s sound better period. However...

2. Any cab can work so long as you are getting them up to equal height. Meaning one guy with a slant 4X12 and one guy with a closed-back 2X12 on the floor is a recipe for problems in FOH unless the guy with the 2X12 gets his cab up to the same height as the top 2 speakers in the 4X12 or tilts them back. Otherwise 2X12 guy is going to either have trouble hearing himself or will turn up too loud because his cab is shooting volume at his knees. If you don't like the sound of your rig with a speaker pointing at your ears that's a problem as that's what the audience/mic hears.

3. 2X12s and 4X12s take up the same amount of floor space and 4X12s aren't "louder" so the preference for smaller cabs for smaller gigs is purely visual/psychological IMO. Playing too loud for a given gig situation is a function of being a noob, not the size of the cab or wattage of the amp etc. Not to say that small amps aren't cool too, they are and I've gigged my 18 watt 1X10 superchamp combo recently with no problems.

4. 2X12s aren't really any easier to move around IMO. With my halfstack I can roll the whole thing with my small rack case on top and carry two guitars in one trip. With a 2X12 (assuming it has casters) you have to bend over to push/roll it and it's way more of a pain in the ass. Without casters they're even more annoying. Best solution is get a good hand cart and at that point any rig is easily moved. Stairs suck regardless but there have been very few gigs around here I've had to deal with stairs, honestly.

I agree with everything here except maybe the point about how a 2x12 isn't easier to move around when compared to a 4x12. When I have to carry my gear out of my basement and the into the back of my car, my 2x12's are MUCH easier than my Mesa 4x12. I guess it all depends what 2x12's you're talking about.

Point #2, once agin, is why I go with vertical slanted 2x12. Most assume that when you speak of a 2x12 you mean a horizontal cab on the floor.

Yes, I think 4x12's sound better also.......ON STAGE.

 

[thiswaythatway]

One thing to consider is your own perception. I had a Bogner 4x12 in my room for a while and a 2x12 combo amp. If I play the 4x12 for 30 minutes and then plug into the combo then the combo sounds small. If I sit there and play the combo for a while and get used to it, then it sounds awesome and I don't see the point of a 4x12. That is unless I plug back into the 4x12 I guess it's just good to have options.

 

[rottingcorpse]

am i the only one here who pays a guy to come pick it up/set it up/and bring it back to the house?

granted, i may not be gigging as much as some of you, but when i do i hire that job out.

4x12's for sure. and i know how to set my stage volume. i am rarely asked to turn it down from the sound man.

 

[verderacer]

In my experience live:

1. 4X12s sound better period. However...

2. Any cab can work so long as you are getting them up to equal height. Meaning one guy with a slant 4X12 and one guy with a closed-back 2X12 on the floor is a recipe for problems in FOH unless the guy with the 2X12 gets his cab up to the same height as the top 2 speakers in the 4X12 or tilts them back. Otherwise 2X12 guy is going to either have trouble hearing himself or will turn up too loud because his cab is shooting volume at his knees. If you don't like the sound of your rig with a speaker pointing at your ears that's a problem as that's what the audience/mic hears.

3. 2X12s and 4X12s take up the same amount of floor space and 4X12s aren't "louder" so the preference for smaller cabs for smaller gigs is purely visual/psychological IMO. Playing too loud for a given gig situation is a function of being a noob, not the size of the cab or wattage of the amp etc. Not to say that small amps aren't cool too, they are and I've gigged my 18 watt 1X10 superchamp combo recently with no problems.

4. 2X12s aren't really any easier to move around IMO. With my halfstack I can roll the whole thing with my small rack case on top and carry two guitars in one trip. With a 2X12 (assuming it has casters) you have to bend over to push/roll it and it's way more of a pain in the ass. Without casters they're even more annoying. Best solution is get a good hand cart and at that point any rig is easily moved. Stairs suck regardless but there have been very few gigs around here I've had to deal with stairs, honestly.

I agree with everything here except maybe the point about how a 2x12 isn't easier to move around when compared to a 4x12. When I have to carry my gear out of my basement and the into the back of my car, my 2x12's are MUCH easier than my Mesa 4x12. I guess it all depends what 2x12's you're talking about.

Point #2, once agin, is why I go with vertical slanted 2x12. Most assume that when you speak of a 2x12 you mean a horizontal cab on the floor.

Yes, I think 4x12's sound better also.......ON STAGE.

I dont agree and I have to be honest, there are times I might want a 4x12 and for the most part I think they are used for show with a few exceptions. A wall of Marshall's is a helluv more impressive than say 4 2x12's. Also traveling with 4x12's are never fun and I dont care if they are in cases with nice castor wheels or not... Call me a wimp but the idea of carrying a 4x12 up a flight of stairs and steep ramps getting my ankles beat is not fun, along with lifting them. 2x12's cabs are so much easier especially with friends help.

For those who, like me, that want a more pronounced height to hear their instrument I just use a simple platform. In my bands case, we use it as a trap case and has the bands logo on it. Flip it over and put stuff in it. I has 2 decent cab handles on it. With my GenzBenz's on it I can clearly hear my wet and dry signals.

What would be really interesting is to see a spectral response analysis of both closed back, ported 4x12 and 2x12 cabs. I am wondering if where in the normal hearing range to see how much difference there would be.

 

[steve_k]

One thing to consider is your own perception. I had a Bogner 4x12 in my room for a while and a 2x12 combo amp. If I play the 4x12 for 30 minutes and then plug into the combo then the combo sounds small. If I sit there and play the combo for a while and get used to it, then it sounds awesome and I don't see the point of a 4x12. That is unless I plug back into the 4x12 I guess it's just good to have options.

Exactly.....

Anybody that says any 2x12 sounds as big as a 4x12 is dreaming. Pop down to the Bogner forum and see all the 2x12 OS threads. I've got one of those, in addition to several 4x12 Bogners, and they are nowhere even in the same ballpark. And, they are only 1" shallower and 3" shorter. So, basically, that size and weight reduction isn't all the much. I think people are just trying to convince themselves that less is more or equal. Depends on the speaker type/wattage rating, etc. too.

Having said that though, it may be less noticeable in a band setting, as the OP questioned, in a small gig. 2 - 2x12's strategically positioned is a good thing. With everything mic's and going to the FOH on a small stage, it becomes more irrelevant. Recording, probably doesn't make all the much difference either.

And, depends what genre and how you want to project. I do wish to see a couple more cab vendors design some slanted vertical 2x12's though. I know Mesa and a couple others make them. I would check them out.

Steve