5153-50watt owners - volume discrepancy

[Kruegmeister]

50 watt Made in Mexico, volume jumped during patch change using an AxeFX2 in the loop to adjust volume difference, but yeah there was a momentary jump. I don't use it live anymore, I use my Diezel D-Moll.

One thing you can try is an Xotic EP Booster, it has more effect on the clean than the Blue channel. It helps, but a design flaw on this amp non-the-less...

 

[Orvillain]

First, the volume jump is minimal w/ the gain at noon or higher.

That has not been my experience at all; I did a gig with it last Saturday and at very loud stage volumes, the volume jump is still massively drastic.

GAIN..............not volume

Right... and that STILL has not been my experience. I can read y'know!!

 

[nevusofota]

First, the volume jump is minimal w/ the gain at noon or higher.

That has not been my experience at all; I did a gig with it last Saturday and at very loud stage volumes, the volume jump is still massively drastic.

GAIN..............not volume

Right... and that STILL has not been my experience. I can read y'know!!

Chill with the attitude.....only trying to help. Remember you're the one asking. I know you're a newb around here but try not to act like one.

 

[Orvillain]

I'm a newb around here sure but I'm not a newb to guitar or amps. You were the one bringing in the attitude in the first place, so don't lecture me about responding to your statement. What I am experiencing is volume differences with the GAIN even past 12 o'clock. It doesn't start to level out until the GAIN is at 3 or 4 o'clock, at which point the cleans are way too dirty. This difference between our two amps could be because of differences in pickups, valves, cables, etc... so lets leave it at that.

Now, lets move on.

With the GSP1101, even when switching the GSP+AMP from the patch select knob on the GSP, I still get a slight pause before the DSP kicks in with channel two. This means the very first pick of a note is insanely LOUD, and then it goes quiet once the patch volume kicks in. At stage levels this would blow an audiences face off - not in the good way!!

Same thing with the Line 6 M13 as well. Is no-one else able to reproduce this?

Rolling back my volume isn't an option unfortunately, because I tend to switch my amp channels whilst playing fairly complicated material. It's not the kind of blues-rock stuff where you can sustain a note at the end of a phrase and then reach down to roll the volume, and then carry on playing. It's staccato metal riffs which require precision and tightness.

 

[drod1985]

Simple mod another forum member posted to solve the volume jump issue: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=141273

 

[drod1985]

double post.

 

[ejecta]

This guy posted a video on his approach to using the 4CM with a POD HD500. Even though you aren't using a POD HD it may give you some ideas to try since this should translate to other units.

BTW what's the sequence in your midi chain? You might try changing that up too and see if it makes a difference. Changing the sequence helped me once when I was using the M13 to control a Nova System and a Friedman Brown Eye.

 

[Schaf]

I use the Twin Reverb and fine tune the bass and mids with knobs on the front.
Took a while balancing all the channels .

I use the twin Reverb model on an RP1000 in 4cm through my 800. It sounds very good. If you cant get it to sound right with the tone controls on the amp model, use the para EQ to boost or cut.

 

[Viesczy]

Out side of the posted MIDI options, I don't know of any way to really make the 5150 III 50 truly show its 3 great channels ina live situation. I love my 5150 III 50 (that's why I gave her that paint job), each channel is amazing, but if I was going to use it live, needed a higher gain amp and was going to spend approx $1k on the amp new, I'd go with the Peavey 3120 as my XXX has 3 true channels, and sounds every bit as good.

Derek

 

[Stramm8]

Nobody has mentioned where their master volume is set on the green/blue channel. I've gigged with mine for over a year and at gigging/rehearsal volume (master over 9 o'clock), I honestly can't notice a drop or jump in volume. I keep the gain at between 1 and 2 o'clock. I'm not using a multi effects pedal just a dd3 and a chorus in the loop using the stock foot switch.

If it's that big of an issue, maybe you should get the 100 watt or a different amp entirely. I didn't buy mine for the clean channel...

 

[Orvillain]

Well since I run the gain at about 11 o'clock, the master needs to be at about noon for it to be loud enough. It sounds great - a REALLY nice clean tone. The crunch also sounds great at this gain level, but it's just too loud. I've also tried running the gain higher and keeping the volume down, but after about 1 o'clock you basically end up with two crunch channels, lol. Is a nice option to have for recording, but not so much for live.

I may end up trying the resistor modification that is out there, see if it helps. But what's weird is I have seen a few people who say they're using the Control 2 to control the amp via midi, and are using the patch volume to even out the levels. But this isn't too successful for me, because the amp channel changes before the GSP1101 does, causing a loud burst when switching to channel 2; I measured it at about 60ms long. I don't know if my configuration is borked somehow, but I don't think so. Followed all the advice given by owners.

Today I did a test - I setup Logic X to send out midi program changes 1, 2, and 3, to my amp. I also had CC85 going out with a value of 0 for PC1 and PC3, and a value of 127 for PC2 - effectively three options then... "clean no FX loop, crunch with FX loop, and distortion without FX loop"

I then put a Boss EQ into the FX loop and used it to attenuate the signal. The Boss was on the entire time, never being turned off.

So I played along to the Logic metronome and looped the midi region, so the amp was in a constant cycle of the above. I could then play quarter note chords along with the click, and the channels switched without clicks or dropouts. The FX loop also switched without clicks or dropouts. More importantly, they switched without any serious latency.

So it seems there is nothing wrong with the amp in this regard. It's all down to the GSP. Line 6 M13 had exactly the same results too.

I have another amp; a Marshall JVM410HJS. I prefer the EVH5153-50watt. I like the weight, I like the tones, I like the size and portability. I don't want to use another amp. To the point where I now have the JVM up for sale, that's how much this little EVH beast has impressed me!!

One option is to use a digital preamp model for cleans. Not 100% sure how I'd set it up, but the GSP doesn't really cover it; sounds muddy and undefined, even with the cabs disabled.

 

[zewango]

If you have it set up 4CM all cab with sims off. You're using the GSP as the preamp and EVH as the power amp. You should be able to get a good clean sound.

 

[mrhiwatt]

I run mine with the gain at 1:30 per Chris Canella seminar. This is how Howard the designer said to overcome the jump. Workks great for me. My master's are usually at 9:00 to 10:00

MrHiwatt

 

[Orvillain]

Okay, so playing around just now a little bit, I managed to get quite a nice clean tone using the Twin Reverb model. It's looking like I could probably do it by using a modelled amp for my cleans. Need to explore it more, but thanks for that tip!

 

[moronmountain]

I'm confused by all this. Do the crunch and lead channels not have both a gain a volume knob that is specific to each channel? I've never seend the 5153 in person tbh.

 

[Reflux]

The crunch volume and gain is shared on the same channel as the clean channel and gain.
The lead channel and gain is on it's own independent channel.
The presence and resonance are universal.

 

[moronmountain]

The crunch volume and gain is shared on the same channel as the clean channel and gain.
The lead channel and gain is on it's own independent channel.
The presence and resonance are universal.

I see, so it's really more of a 2 channel amp in all practicality? Almost like instead of having a -/+ switch on the clean/crunch channel, they give you a second gain knob and a switch. If that's the case, then pick which setting you like more between crunch and clean, and accept the amps limitations.

 

[GuitarGuyLP]

I just had a look at the schematic, and I don't really see why both the volume, and gain for channels 1 and 2 can't use concentric pots to have a separate adjustment for each channel. It would depend on the board layout as to how easy that would be to actually implement. I am sure that the controls were shared to keep cost down, keep it cleaner looker (can't use chicken head knobs on concentric pots), and to give people a really good reason to buy the 100 watt version.

 

[moronmountain]

Oh heck, I went and looked at the panel of that amp. I thought yall meant it had 2 gain knobs and a shared volume knob for channels 1/2. I now see that it in fact has a single, shared gain knob as well. Pft! That is NOT a 3 channel amp. It is basically a 2 channel amp with a crunch/clean mode that they are "calling 2 channels." I now understand why it's hard to get this thing to be as effective as a true 3 channel amp.... It isn't one, and that's all there is to it. It doesn't matter that the panel "says" it has 3 channels, or that there are 3 different colored lights, it simply only has 2 IMO. If you like the sound of that amp, and really want 3 channels to use then you really only have 2 sound options without creating a wiring/looping/slaving nightmare IMO. 1) Fork out the extra dough for the 100 watt version which appears to have 3 true channels, or 2) Buy a little combo amp to use as a dedicated clean via an AB box.

 

[Orvillain]

First practice with the 5150III and the GSP1101 combo tonight. It went rather well. Things of note:

I ended up using the GSP1101's Twin Reverb amp model, with the cabinet disabled, going into the power section of my amp. It is sounding pretty good. When I A/B the clean tone of the amp with this, I find myself preferring the Twin Reverb amp model! It's just a little bit cleaner, doesn't distort, and is nice and compressed - the way I like it. The amp sounded a little livelier initially, but I compensated for this by adding a touch of gain to the amp model, and it came alive.

In a solo context in my bedroom, I noticed the tiniest bit of latency when switching the amp channels. In a band context, I just don't notice it at all. It's certainly not on the level of the original JVM arsehattery!

We're working on a new tune where we wanted something atmospheric at the start of it, with an instant cut into something high-gain and chuggy. Before the GSP, I would've had to rewrite the idea and split up the guitar part across two people in order to manage it. With the GSP, I could get delay and reverb post-amp distortion, giving me the huge atmospheric sound I wanted, and then jump across to my 'high gain with no fx' preset and get the instant cut across that we were looking for. So it has already made a pretty compelling argument for itself in the space of one rehearsal! I quite dig it.

The Rolls Midibuddy that I am using to control the GSP+AMP is... eh... it basically does the job. But the switches feel a bit crap, and because of its length, anytime I use my wah, I kept hitting one of the presets... so I need to sort out my midi footswitch pedal.

I'm not at the point where I can get rid of all my pedals. I still need my volume pedal, wah pedal, my two delay pedals, and my reverb pedal. I could probably do away with the phaser pedal, since the phaser effects on the GSP can go before the amp and they actually sound very good and very close to the sounds I've used on Exegesis the album.

So I need some sort of midi controller than can offer me banks, nice switches, and be small enough so that I don't accidentally hit one of the switches when turning my wah on. To replace the Rolls Midibuddy on this board:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3vn2c9zmyv22d ... ySetup.jpg