65-18 watt switch on Renegade

E

Eracer

New member
Hi Gang.
I spotted a used Renegade head in my local music store, did a quick test and thought this is sort of cool I'll bring it home.
I finally got a chance to hook it up after a couple of days of it sitting here (yeah I'm on 24hr call) and play with it tonight.
Yes call this an impulse buy

Question: should I be able to hear a volume increase when switching from 18 to 65 watts?
Still have to keep the gain and volumes down since it is quite loud but I would have thought I'd hear a volume change.
Here's what the manual says
This toggle switch allows you to preset the power for CHANNEL 1 to either 65 watts for maximum headroom and clarity or switch down to 18 watts for a somewhat softer attack and feel. This is cool if you are looking for a little more power amp breakup. Keep in mind, 18 watts can still be quite loud. Read the TECH NOTES later in this manual for an in depth expla­nation of WATTS vs .VOLUME

I hear quite the change between Channel 1 and Channel 2, but from 18 to 65 watts, nada.
Any Ideas or is this normal for this amp?
 
Yes. There is very little volume difference and you won't notice headroom difference until you turn the volume up a bit.

Sounds like everything is working just fine.
 
Interesting.
I know the manual is sort of trying to 'get out of it' by saying that "somewhat softer attack and feel" and that 18 watts is loud, Heck I know 5 is loud with the right speaker.

I was expecting more of a difference.
Since there are other amp companies that have been "mesa'n" around with 50/25/5 switches and the sound change is quite different between each.

Not sure when I'm going to be able to "take advantage" of the more head room and hear the difference, but at least I have something to work into.
 
The way Egnater does it, it is not an "ear candy" effect. When you go to low power it is more like having a subtle compressor. You'll hear it more at higher volumes. 65 watts- cleans will stay clean and loud. 18 watts- loud but a "squeezier" tone.
 
Yes. You really aren't going to hear much difference until you start turning the amp up.

I've owned several amps with 25-50-100 power switches and never used any of them on anything but "100". The 50, and for sure the 25, were always too thin and spongy. The Renegade 18 watt setting sounds full and normal, I like that.

Again, don't think of it so much as a volume tool, think of it as a headroom and tonal adjustment tool. But don't worry about it as long as you're having to "keep the volume down." You aren't really going to notice it until you turn it up, or start using it in a band scenario.

If you were hoping you could set at "18" and crank it till the power tubes distorted at low volumes, sorry, that's not the Renegade's error. :D
 
wow Thanks Keith.
Reading your blog on the tubes, need to dig out the speakers/headphones to really hear your YouTube video better.
Basement has been under reno' for about a month now. Just dug the Renegade out of the garage and setting things back up and running.


I'm also a big fan of Dana Hall's VVR for reducing the B+ voltage rail thus dropping your power out without dropping the tone.
http://www.hallamplification.com/main.html?src=%2F#2,2

I'll need to look at the schematic (which I have) and see where I can install this unit.
 
Don't know why I started the blog....it's a real pain. I know what I want to say, then you read it back and think....WTF, is English really your first language.
The audio on the vid is too crap. My PC died and I need to sort Pro tools out again....another royal pain in the ass. The difference between the 18/65 is massive now....don't know if it due to the pre amp tubes or the 6V6's. I'm going to put the 6L6's back in over the weekend to make sure....the Renegade has become more Fender Twangy and that could be down to the 6V6's.
 
Eracer":juu62i58 said:
Hi Gang.
I spotted a used Renegade head in my local music store, did a quick test and thought this is sort of cool I'll bring it home.
I finally got a chance to hook it up after a couple of days of it sitting here (yeah I'm on 24hr call) and play with it tonight.
Yes call this an impulse buy

Question: should I be able to hear a volume increase when switching from 18 to 65 watts?
Still have to keep the gain and volumes down since it is quite loud but I would have thought I'd hear a volume change.
Here's what the manual says
This toggle switch allows you to preset the power for CHANNEL 1 to either 65 watts for maximum headroom and clarity or switch down to 18 watts for a somewhat softer attack and feel. This is cool if you are looking for a little more power amp breakup. Keep in mind, 18 watts can still be quite loud. Read the TECH NOTES later in this manual for an in depth expla­nation of WATTS vs .VOLUME

I hear quite the change between Channel 1 and Channel 2, but from 18 to 65 watts, nada.
Any Ideas or is this normal for this amp?
Click to expand...
Please,read the TECH NOTES at page 16 in the manual .
 
Yes I've read the manual Viking...
and the Tech Note Watts Vs Volume is also on Eg's main web site as a tech note as well.

As you didn't read my other comment.. I'll requote it here for you:

I was expecting more of a difference.
Since there are other amp companies that have been "mesa'n" around with 50/25/5 switches and the sound change is quite different between each
Click to expand...

As I stated I expected more of a difference. other amp's seem to have a huge change in volume/tone/power when you filp their switches
but I can live with that.
 
Hi,Eracer ! I did read your other comment and that's even why i talked about the manual.
Eracer":33tzbv10 said:
Interesting.
I know the manual is sort of trying to 'get out of it' by saying that "somewhat softer attack and feel" and that 18 watts is loud, Heck I know 5 is loud with the right speaker.

I was expecting more of a difference.
Since there are other amp companies that have been "mesa'n" around with 50/25/5 switches and the sound change is quite different between each.

Not sure when I'm going to be able to "take advantage" of the more head room and hear the difference, but at least I have something to work into.
Click to expand...
You're not the first guy who expected more of a difference but if you've read P16 AND tried the experiment described (with the Rebel20 but i did the same with the Renegade) there,everything should be clear.Of course,if you prefer the way M&B is doing it,it's your privilege.Why not? But i thought the manual was well done and didn't try "to get out of it" ;)
 
either way, right now I have my external attenuator attached, so I can dial back the over all volume but still be able to push the tubes.
when I finally have a chance to really look at the schematic, I'll be able to install the variable voltage regulator and scale the power tubes back to as low as 25v without effecting the heaters.
Therefore I'll be able to control the over all power/volume of the amp just with voltage.
 
I really like my Renegade. I have been trying different tubes in all sorts of combinations over the last few days and it really does make a difference. The amp was biased pretty hot, so when I put the new Mullard EL34's and JJ6L6s in, I made sure to hit the center of the range on each.

This amp is amazing. The tone controls and bright/deep fat/loose switches really do quite a bit. You have to work with the amp until you get what you are looking for. The biggest difference for me came when I put a 7025 in V6 (PI). The Drive channel is too over the top for me. I like gain, but not as much as this can easily give. I am pretty much there now. Getting everything balance correctly and then using the Main 1 to raise and lower the volume is a very good feature. The amp plays well with my pedal, but at this point, I don't really need drive pedals, though I will keep them on the board.

Egnater really knows his amps. There is nothing missed on this one. All at a reasonable price.

Happy customer. I have a gig Saturday night, so I will give you update on Sunday or Monday. Looking forward to having a little power behind me on this date.

TJ
 
yes the price is right and I picked it up from a store used so not even near full price.
That's the one thing I have been looking at but haven't done yet is the mix and match of tubes.
enough pre-amp tubes, the PI and the two choices of power tubes, makes the choices staggering of what you can match up in here.
 
Well done,TJ :thumbsup: ! To my surprise,i had much better results with a low bias (cold).Didn't like a hot bias at all !If you feel you don't even need an overdrive pedal anymore,you did a good job :yes: !I'm not there yet ;) !
 
Thanks Viking,

What did you achieve with cold bias on your amp? The drive channel is still just a bit too pounding.. lol I man gain that is. I would love to tame it a bit more. If I had another 7025, I would slap that sucker in there. Do tell, what does cold biasing do for you? and, how cold is cold?

TJ
 
Since you have external trim pots ( I believe ) beware underbiasing. If you red plate even for a short time. You deform the plates & greatly diminish tube life. That said, there is no exact perfect bias point. Sort of season to your taste.
Me? I like my girls Salty..
 
correct daviedog.. that's why its better to modify the B+ voltage rail. The tubes stay that the proper level, just the power comes down.
 
tjnugent":zxc01quh said:
Thanks Viking,

What did you achieve with cold bias on your amp? The drive channel is still just a bit too pounding.. lol I man gain that is. I would love to tame it a bit more. If I had another 7025, I would slap that sucker in there. Do tell, what does cold biasing do for you? and, how cold is cold?

TJ
Click to expand...
Hey TJ ! I replied yesterday but my post has been lost (stupid connection problem !).I just tried a hot bias first (supposed to sound better) :70 mV for 6L6 and 75 mV for EL34.And i didn't like it. The sound was agressive,screaming & more spiky.So,i tried with a cold bias :60mV for 6L6 and 65 mV for EL34 and it was much better.Especially for the drive channel.It's smoother and the saturation sounds more cohesive.That's my experience ;) .
 
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