6L6 Question

[ewill52]

what does the designation "winged-C" mean? Is there a difference between this tube and another that is not designated as "winged-c"?

If so, what are the general differences tonally?

 

[Red_Label]

Can't give you specifics about the 6L6 version, but in the EL34 version of Svetlana =C= tubes, they are supposed to stand-up to higher plate voltages than some other brands. Bogner's been recommending them for the Shiva for years, and that's all I used in my Shiva. I started-out with them in my XTC as well, but moved over to other brands after a while because I found that they had a short lifespan and costed quite a bit more than other brands (EHX in particular). Sound was good, although I don't remember liking the tubes that replaced them in the XTC any less.

 

[steve_k]

Short answer?

SED Winged C's are manufactured at a specific plant in Saratov Russia and marketed under the SED name by an American/Russian JV. The Winged C logo is from the original Svetlana (C is Cyrillic for S - and Sveta means light in Russian). Svetlana still makes tubes carrying the Winged C logo, but are inferior to the SED Winged C's. Svetlana rebrands also to Ruby and maybe others. They are essentially the same tube, but the American JV company that bought the rights to market the Winged C tube in the west, and the plant in Saratov make a much better, higher quality tube.

SED Winged C - best
Svetlana/Ruby - no the best

 

[Classic]

Short answer?

SED Winged C's are manufactured at a specific plant in Saratov Russia and marketed under the SED name by an American/Russian JV. The Winged C logo is from the original Svetlana (C is Cyrillic for S - and Sveta means light in Russian). Svetlana still makes tubes carrying the Winged C logo, but are inferior to the SED Winged C's. Svetlana rebrands also to Ruby and maybe others. They are essentially the same tube, but the American JV company that bought the rights to market the Winged C tube in the west, and the plant in Saratov make a much better, higher quality tube.

SED Winged C - best
Svetlana/Ruby - no the best

Is this 100% correct?

I thought the Winged =C= brand was owned by SED allowing only them to brand tubes with the =C=. The USA trademark name "Svetlana" was bought by another firm (Sovtek??) who then marketed their tubes under that brand. The two tubes look different and are different with the only real tubes being the ones with the =C= or called SED in the USA. Outside of the USA, SED still has the trademark name of Svetlana and can/is branding tubes as such.

The best way to be safe is buy tubes manufactured by SED with a =C= on the box PLUS with the "wings" construction.

I could be wrong but that was my understanding

 

[bananaladonpcp]

Svetlana sold the company and started making really cheap tubes that are absolute crap. Stay away. Winged =C= tubes were made in a different factory and are still being made. The new ones dont say svetlana on them anymore (Im sure they might still have some inventory that does) just the Winged =C= logo and the tube type...

As for the ruby tubes.... What is all the hate coming from with these? You guys do realize that they are one of the ONLY companies that offer an actual warranty on their tubes? Sure they re-brand tubes but they just don't re-brand anything.... They test the shit out of them to make sure they meet the high quality they are going for. They have a really high rejection rate and only go for high quality tubes.... Re-branding doesn't make them bad.... I have had DOA tubes and tubes that have failed withing a few days or weeks from Winged =C=, Electro-harmonix, JJ, Sovtek, and Tung-sol, and been told by all of them that I am out of luck but NEVER once have i received a bad tube from Ruby. I have AB'd them with a good pair of winged =C='s and they held their own against them. The differences were very small (though i do have to say the winged =C='s sounded better) but for the price difference it's not nearly that big of a jump in sound. Just my 2 cents on the topic...

-Alex

 

[steve_k]

Short answer?

SED Winged C's are manufactured at a specific plant in Saratov Russia and marketed under the SED name by an American/Russian JV. The Winged C logo is from the original Svetlana (C is Cyrillic for S - and Sveta means light in Russian). Svetlana still makes tubes carrying the Winged C logo, but are inferior to the SED Winged C's. Svetlana rebrands also to Ruby and maybe others. They are essentially the same tube, but the American JV company that bought the rights to market the Winged C tube in the west, and the plant in Saratov make a much better, higher quality tube.

SED Winged C - best
Svetlana/Ruby - no the best

Is this 100% correct?

I thought the Winged =C= brand was owned by SED allowing only them to brand tubes with the =C=. The USA trademark name "Svetlana" was bought by another firm (Sovtek??) who then marketed their tubes under that brand. The two tubes look different and are different with the only real tubes being the ones with the =C= or called SED in the USA. Outside of the USA, SED still has the trademark name of Svetlana and can/is branding tubes as such.

The best way to be safe is buy tubes manufactured by SED with a =C= on the box PLUS with the "wings" construction.

I could be wrong but that was my understanding

You're right too. The SED will have the Winged C logo. Your tube provider may or may not ship in the Winged C box. I get them in plain boxes, but I know the people I am getting mine from. Svetlana will have the Winged C and say Svetlana. But, you can look at the plate construction and tell the difference. Subtle but different.


Steve

 

[steve_k]

Svetlana sold the company and started making really cheap tubes that are absolute crap. Stay away. Winged =C= tubes were made in a different factory and are still being made. The new ones dont say svetlana on them anymore (Im sure they might still have some inventory that does) just the Winged =C= logo and the tube type...

As for the ruby tubes.... What is all the hate coming from with these? You guys do realize that they are one of the ONLY companies that offer an actual warranty on their tubes? Sure they re-brand tubes but they just don't re-brand anything.... They test the shit out of them to make sure they meet the high quality they are going for. They have a really high rejection rate and only go for high quality tubes.... Re-branding doesn't make them bad.... I have had DOA tubes and tubes that have failed withing a few days or weeks from Winged =C=, Electro-harmonix, JJ, Sovtek, and Tung-sol, and been told by all of them that I am out of luck but NEVER once have i received a bad tube from Ruby. I have AB'd them with a good pair of winged =C='s and they held their own against them. The differences were very small (though i do have to say the winged =C='s sounded better) but for the price difference it's not nearly that big of a jump in sound. Just my 2 cents on the topic...

-Alex

Who's hatin on Ruby, Alex? I am sure everyone has their tube failure story and favorite tube, whether it be on price, availability, reputation, reliability. The fact that they will replace a tube with no questions asked is amazing though, as half the people on this board wouldn't know how to bias an amp to save their life.

My 2 cents is this though....I am not going to re-tube a $600 amp with $200 worth of power tubes. If shit blows up, who cares? Fix the amp, toss the fucker in the bin, get another. Now, I am going to tube a $3000 amp with the best, most reliable EL34 out there, and those are SED Winged C's, from a reputable source.

And, I am talking purely about EL34's right now too, and the Winged C. I don't know what amps you are running, but if an amp is throwing 500-550 plate volts, most 34's cannot handle the screen voltages (for very long anyway) and will screen out. SED's are the only one I would trust here. Ruby might replace a tube, but they aren't going to pay your repair bill.

As far as 6L6's go, the only amps I own with 6L6 tubes are Mesa's. And, I like the Mesa, relabeled JJ's just fine. Just like Ruby, I know they are going to be checked and rechecked and burnt in OK and matched, somewhat. Amps running 6L6 tubes aren't putting out near the plate voltages that near the limit of that family of tubes.

Anyway, there's my tube rant. And, nothing personal against Ruby. It's all about who's running the show and what gets past them and reputation. A good example, take a look at Peter Diezel. He pays very close attention to the tube market, reliability of that tube and the capability of those testing and marketing those tubes. Then, we he gets them, he burns them in some more, culls all the crap and ends up with about a 10th of what he started with. I am sure if you asked Mike Soldano, Rick St. Pierre, Randall Smith or any amp builder, they are going to be doing the same thing. These guys also have to keep cost down and try to strike some balance between price, reliability and cost of repairs for a failure. I asked one of them why they want to send me a $3000 amp with JJ's in it. The answer was, well, I know you are going to change them out anyway. Why drive the price up?

Steve

 

[bananaladonpcp]

Svetlana sold the company and started making really cheap tubes that are absolute crap. Stay away. Winged =C= tubes were made in a different factory and are still being made. The new ones dont say svetlana on them anymore (Im sure they might still have some inventory that does) just the Winged =C= logo and the tube type...

As for the ruby tubes.... What is all the hate coming from with these? You guys do realize that they are one of the ONLY companies that offer an actual warranty on their tubes? Sure they re-brand tubes but they just don't re-brand anything.... They test the shit out of them to make sure they meet the high quality they are going for. They have a really high rejection rate and only go for high quality tubes.... Re-branding doesn't make them bad.... I have had DOA tubes and tubes that have failed withing a few days or weeks from Winged =C=, Electro-harmonix, JJ, Sovtek, and Tung-sol, and been told by all of them that I am out of luck but NEVER once have i received a bad tube from Ruby. I have AB'd them with a good pair of winged =C='s and they held their own against them. The differences were very small (though i do have to say the winged =C='s sounded better) but for the price difference it's not nearly that big of a jump in sound. Just my 2 cents on the topic...

-Alex

Who's hatin on Ruby, Alex? I am sure everyone has their tube failure story and favorite tube, whether it be on price, availability, reputation, reliability. The fact that they will replace a tube with no questions asked is amazing though, as half the people on this board wouldn't know how to bias an amp to save their life.

My 2 cents is this though....I am not going to re-tube a $600 amp with $200 worth of power tubes. If shit blows up, who cares? Fix the amp, toss the fucker in the bin, get another. Now, I am going to tube a $3000 amp with the best, most reliable EL34 out there, and those are SED Winged C's, from a reputable source.

And, I am talking purely about EL34's right now too, and the Winged C. I don't know what amps you are running, but if an amp is throwing 500-550 plate volts, most 34's cannot handle the screen voltages (for very long anyway) and will screen out. SED's are the only one I would trust here. Ruby might replace a tube, but they aren't going to pay your repair bill.

As far as 6L6's go, the only amps I own with 6L6 tubes are Mesa's. And, I like the Mesa, relabeled JJ's just fine. Just like Ruby, I know they are going to be checked and rechecked and burnt in OK and matched, somewhat. Amps running 6L6 tubes aren't putting out near the plate voltages that near the limit of that family of tubes.

Anyway, there's my tube rant. And, nothing personal against Ruby. It's all about who's running the show and what gets past them and reputation. A good example, take a look at Peter Diezel. He pays very close attention to the tube market, reliability of that tube and the capability of those testing and marketing those tubes. Then, we he gets them, he burns them in some more, culls all the crap and ends up with about a 10th of what he started with. I am sure if you asked Mike Soldano, Rick St. Pierre, Randall Smith or any amp builder, they are going to be doing the same thing. These guys also have to keep cost down and try to strike some balance between price, reliability and cost of repairs for a failure. I asked one of them why they want to send me a $3000 amp with JJ's in it. The answer was, well, I know you are going to change them out anyway. Why drive the price up?

Steve

I wasn't actually speaking directly to you about hating on ruby's. I have seen you say good things about them in the past but theres alot of people on here who have been hating on them and most have never used them. I'm currently using a Diezel Herbert and an engl fireball 100. In the Diezel I have 2 ruby EL34's in it along with 2 winged =C= EL34s and 2 winged =C= 6L6GC's in there. Peter used to recommend the ruby el34 over the winged =C= for a while before going over to the ruby or jj kt77s.... Not because of cost but because of reliability. I've never had a ruby blow on me or had any issue with them was my point. I've had to replace heater caps because of winged =C= fresh out of the box on my fireball 100. It is very important to watch the tube market for changes. Right now winged =C= has the most reliable el34's but that is always subject to change. Tubes are a hot topic lol. In the end it's all about what works!!

-Alex

 

[maddnotez]

idk where its made or what the difference is but when I heard Leib's Twin Jet after some Winged C's I noticed a major improvement in tone.

 

[Red_Label]

This has been an informative thread already. I learned a few things myself. Perhaps the reason I wasn't bowled-over by tone and endurance of the couple of quads of Winged-Cs that I bought what that they were the Svetlana-branded ones? I replaced them with EHX and Ruby EL34s and liked those better for tone, endurance, and price.

 

[droptrd]

Have the prices on the SEDs come back down to earth yet? They were the only brand Id use for the longest time til they doubled/tripled their prices in the US.

 

[steve_k]

Regarding tone and all that....that's not a reason I would choose the particular EL34, but I tend to keep several spare quads and for the most part use them in amps the deliver higher plate voltages. I wouldn't even pretend to be able to do some blind listening test and tell you. In most Marshall type amps, Bogner XTC/Uber, Mesa's, I think JJ's work just fine. I don't chase various brands, usually just SED's and JJ's on power tubes. But, I will say JJ makes it damn hard to feel good about sometime. I put a brand new quad in an amp that I had pulled SED's from. The amp didn't even need biasing. Let them seat for a half an hour or so and let her rip. Started smelling that familiar smell and looked around back to find a couple of the red-plating. Just bad luck and bad tubes for whatever reason. Slapped the SED's back in and no problem. I like the tone of them, but they make it difficult to feel comfortable sometimes. I think the amp builders do a better job culling through tubes. Most JJ's I get in a new amp will run forever and be just fine.

Since we are on the subject, I will recommend a tube dealer that knows their shit and that is TC Tubes. Most 34's are burned in and matched at a nominal 450V. The plate current recorded and all that stuff. If you buy your SED's from TC Tubes, they will match to your desired plate voltage range and whether you want a cold or hot tube. For instance, if you have an Uberschall running at 510PV. They will actually burn in and test at this voltage. That to me is cool and I will say that I have never had a tube fail that came out of their shop.

Steve

 

[bananaladonpcp]

Since we are on the subject, I will recommend a tube dealer that knows their shit and that is TC Tubes. Most 34's are burned in and matched at a nominal 450V. The plate current recorded and all that stuff. If you buy your SED's from TC Tubes, they will match to your desired plate voltage range and whether you want a cold or hot tube. For instance, if you have an Uberschall running at 510PV. They will actually burn in and test at this voltage. That to me is cool and I will say that I have never had a tube fail that came out of their shop.

Steve

THAT is bad ass! That's pretty awesome.

 

[Lord Toneking]

Are mesa tubes just rebranded jjs?

 

[steve_k]

Are mesa tubes just rebranded jjs?

Afraid so. But, they are made in accordance with Mesa's manufacturing specs. The STR designation is "Special Tube Requirement". They then recheck, match, cull, burn in and assign them a color code, sort of like Groove Tubes does theirs. I am very particular when it comes to tubes and have no problem whatsoever buying Mesa branded tubes.

Steve

 

[Classic]

If you're querying which is which check the construction - The SED's have the metal supports which point downwards:

Svetlana EL34 http://thetubestore.com/ne-el34.html

SED Winged =C= EL34 http://thetubestore.com/el341.html

Svetlana 6L6 http://thetubestore.com/ne-6l6gc.html

SED Winged =C- 6L6 http://thetubestore.com/6l6gc.html

 

[drjenkins]

Damn Steve, that TC Tubes place is no freaking joke! I'm about to swap some tubes out in the 5150 50 watt, and I'm thinking that they are where I'll be buying from. Thanks for the recommendation!

-dave