6L6 STR-415 vs STR-387

FourT6and2

Well-known member
Are these the same tube? The 415 are the original Philips and said to be the bees tits. I read somewhere the 387 with a single getter are real 387. But the 387s with the double getter are actually the 415, just before they started calling them 415. Can anybody confirm?

Are these any good in a modern, high-gain amp like a Mesa Mark?
 
IndyWS6":yqppo7f8 said:
Subscribed. Curious...

Isn't it "bees knees" :)

It's bees knees. Or those are the tits. I figure, bees tiddies gotta be like 4000 points more awesomer.
 
Oh, just got word of this: "The STR-387 is spec'd as a 6L6GC (30 watts), the STR-415 is spec'd to a 7581a (35 watts)."
 
I've actually read the opposite, the 387 has a bit more headroom. But essentially both are the same tube made by Sylvania. The 387 can come with 1 or 2 getters, while the 415 is always 2. According to the Boogie Board. I have a stash of Fender, Peavey branded and regular Sylvania 387s and 415s, they all sound equally great in my 2C+.
 
Awesome, thanks! I was under the impression Sylvania stopped making them when (maybe?) Phillips took over? Then Phillips quit making them after like 2 years. The 415 is the one Mesa used to offer, right? Hmm well I just grabbed a duet of the 387s. Gonna try them in the KSR Ares I just got.
 
Guys like Psychodave, Steve K and other Mesa fans would know for sure but that's the info that I've been going by.
 
Simply put, the 387 and 415 are the same if they both have the dual top getters. They are also labeled with "6L6" at the top. Only the 387 had a single getter and middle side 6L6 labeling. Both tubes sound great.

Of course there are differences between 415's. Some have halo getters and some have foil getter (basically a halo with the center not open). There are some slight differences in performance, but I've yet to see anything definitive. I've seen some with side getters and getter flash too.

Don't forget about the Sylvania 7581a. This is a military version of the 415 and rated at 35 watts per tube. So you can have 3 different tube labels with the same looking interior structure.
 
Dave beat me to it, what he said…
I have a few quads of both and I can't hear any difference… They are both incredible power tubes!
 
Ok, so early 387 had single getter and 30 watts?
Later 387 had dual getter and 30 watts?
415 is the same tube, but tested/rated, as is the 7581a, and rated for 35 watts and spec'd for Mesa?
 
FourT6and2":sqqc62e8 said:
Ok, so early 387 had single getter and 30 watts?
Later 387 had dual getter and 30 watts?
415 is the same tube, but tested/rated, as is the 7581a, and rated for 35 watts and spec'd for Mesa?

415 is still 30 watts.

All 3 can be used with Mesa amps, and I believe the 387 and 415 were only used by Mesa. The 7581a wasn't.

Depending on the amp, you need to know where the tubes you are buying translate into the amp you are going to use them in. For example, on my maxi matcher tube testers, Mesa red spec comes in at 15-20 mA @ 400 volts, yellow is at 20-25 @ 400 volts and green is at 25-30 mA @400 volts. Of course this is just a guideline. I've seen yellows at 16 and reds at 25 lol. For my 2C+ amps I won't go over 40 mA @ 400 volts. I have around 9 quads of 415 and 7581a's and most are right at 30 mA @400 volts.

Keep in mind I'm NOT taking into consideration any SIMULCLASS sockets. If you are using simul sockets with 415's I wouldn't go over 25 mA @ 400 volts.
 
psychodave":x0j62luf said:
FourT6and2":x0j62luf said:
Ok, so early 387 had single getter and 30 watts?
Later 387 had dual getter and 30 watts?
415 is the same tube, but tested/rated, as is the 7581a, and rated for 35 watts and spec'd for Mesa?

415 is still 30 watts.

All 3 can be used with Mesa amps, and I believe the 387 and 415 were only used by Mesa. The 7581a wasn't.

I don't think that's accurate. By all accounts from what I've read and been told elsewhere, the STR-387 was spec'd and custom ordered "Special Tube Request" by Fender for their amps well before Mesa started using them (by decades). The story goes Fender was using the Sylvania 6L6GC and wanted a more robust tube that could survive more abuse and hang upside down in certain amps. Thus, the STR-387 was born. Then Phillips acquired Sylvania for their military contract. A decade or more later, Mesa put in a Special Tube Request for the 387 with whatever specs they wanted. The 415 is that Mesa spec. How they all relate the the 7581a is still a mystery to me.

Here is information from a few other sources (Watford Valve, KCA, other forums, etc.). Some of it is contradictory. Not sure what to make of it. In any event, I'm not putting this in a Mesa amp. So it doesn't matter what the "color code" of the tube is. I'm not getting Mesa tubes anyway. Can't find 'em.

The Philips 7581A and the tall bottle Sylvania STR-387 are the same tube. When Philips ECG bought out Sylvania in the 80's they still distributed the same tube, same tooling only thing that changed was the name. Only thing that differentiates the two is the JAN Philips 7581A or Joint Army Navy is military tested. The grid design and high power handling makes it ideal for amps with LOUD clean headroom. Also you can use the 70% rule of thumb here when biasing as the STR-387 and Philips 7581A are 35 watt 6L6GC's
6L6GC STR 387 35W By Philips/Sylvania STR is Special Tube Request - See note one below:

Back in the 60s and 70s production people were learning that common parts reduced production costs. To make a 19W, 25W, 30W, and 35W 6l6 costs more money to set up production for each type. Now, this is my guess, they said why not stuff 6l6 GC, 7581A, with 7027 guts and make them all the same. The lower rated parts will simply have more margin and last longer. Also, companies were pushing the parts right to their limits where they did not last long. Companies that did this would have longer lasting tubes. So, 7027 and 7581A are offically 35 W, some 6L6 GC are 30W and some are truly 35 W with 7027 guts but there is no designation to indicate 35W - you have to look at the guts. Edit, the 6L6 GC STR is a 35W tube so there is an indication. I knew that the STRs by PhilipsECG/Sylvania were 35 W when I wrote this, but not that the STR meant special tube request so the 35W guts were requested by one or more companies, probably Fender. The interesting thing is that Sylvania also did the 35W upgrade to other non STR types so perhaps the efficiency idea hit them at some point. There are modern STRs and I would not count on them being the same.
The reasons are my speculation, but I have read that the guts are positively the same as the 7027 for certain 6L6GC's and those tubes can run all day at 35W on a tester. There is even a tube rated for 19W with 35 W guts.

This one seems to suggest the 387 is 30 watts and the 7581A is the military version at 35 watts:

"Philips ECG JAN / 6L6GC/STR387-7581A-PHILIPS
Philips electronics components group was the name given to the products marketed in America after Philips bought the American valve manufacturer Sylvania in the early 1980’s. Sylvania was a major manufacturer of valves and Philips bought them to get the lucrative American Government and military contracts. These valves are of the highest military grade which offer outstanding performance and were all made in the USA.

The 7581A is the high grade military version of the famous Sylvania 6L6GC STR 387. The 7581A was made to have a higher plate dissipation of 35 watts, where all other 6L6GC types have a 30 watt rating, Philips Sylvania uprated anode plate coating allowing better heat transfer. The valve also uses the highest grade nickel for the anode plate construction so the 7581A gives a long life.

The Sylvania 6L6GC STR 387 is probably the most famous 6L6GC ever made. The STR 387 was designed for Fender by Sylvania. Fender wanted a valve that could operate with reduced microphonics when placed upside down. Sylvania redesigned the valve specifically for Fender
hence the term STR was applied to the valve which means special tube request.

Fender chose Sylvania as this was the 6L6GC that gave them the clearest and most open sounding 6L6GC. This was the valve supplier of choice for output valve for Fender and Sylvania were happy to
under take the design work as Fender buying power was immense.

The valves plate structure was beefed up and the valve has a more linear response when used upside down. The valve also featured a double getter system as opposed to the single getter of the pre 1974 Sylvania 6L6GC.The valve also had improved anode plate material and coatings to help the valve dissipate the heat as Fender wanted higher output levels and better reliability.

This is the valve that was standard in the Fender amplifiers from 1974 until the mid-1980s. The valve is very well balanced with a big clean sound. The valve never gets muddy no matter how hard you drive it. This valve was also use in the Original Mesa Boogie amplifier and many owners of early Mesa will not fit anything else.

This valve was so good that is was used by Philips Sylvania to develop the 7581A for the US government. This is one of the best classic 6L6GC every made.

So all this begs the question (my original one), if the 387 is the same as the 415, why have a different number designation for them? There must be some difference, no? I'm trying to find out what that difference is. I know the 7581A is the military spec version. So either there is some physical difference, or they are simply uber-tested/sorted 387s and nothing more. But everyone says the 7581A is 35 watts. So maybe it's the same tube, just more "stout" ones they found via testing/sorting that could dissipate 35 watts?

In any event, I have a pair of 387s headed my way. This is all just academic to quell my curiosity.
 
I've read all of that and been hunting 415's for years. I've yet to see any real differences. Who knows there could be significant differences. I've yet to read a 100% trustworthy source.
 
psychodave":1mqy7ods said:
I've read all of that and been hunting 415's for years. I've yet to see any real differences. Who knows there could be significant differences. I've yet to read a 100% trustworthy source.

Yeah, it's all hearsay and contradictory and best guesses haha.

Anyway, I'm putting these STR-387s in the KSR Ares I just got. Has a similar vibe to the Mesa Mark series, so I figure they might be a good fit.
 
FourT6and2":1faq7vr5 said:
psychodave":1faq7vr5 said:
I've read all of that and been hunting 415's for years. I've yet to see any real differences. Who knows there could be significant differences. I've yet to read a 100% trustworthy source.

Yeah, it's all hearsay and contradictory and best guesses haha.

Anyway, I'm putting these STR-387s in the KSR Ares I just got. Has a similar vibe to the Mesa Mark series, so I figure they might be a good fit.

They will be better than anything made today. :D

Regarding Mesa's, I do like the old 430's which are Sovtek WXT+'s. The Chinese 440's are okay too.
 
Hmm..I do have a pair of 430s, I'll have to try them in my SRG. Bought a tube stash locally, mostly for the Amperex pres he had..
 
Here is a pic I just took of an STR387, Fender labeled 387, boogie 415, 7581a and a Peavey super 6. I have both green and blue label Mesa 415's.

 
I have a set of 6, original, Mesa-branded, blue-stamped STR-415s. They came stock in my No-Stripe Coliseum, and they sound much much livelier, "springy-er", and thicker than any other STR I've tried. There were also Mesa-branded STR-415s that had a green roll stamp, but I don't recall where in the lineage they fall.

Here's a few shots of the STR-415s I'm running...



Here's the dual getters...


And some random info on the roll stamp...
 
Ok so I put some of those STR-387s into my amp and you know... I think the regular old JJ 6L6GCs sounded better. These Phillips tubes are looser and lack the forward mids of the JJs. Go figure.

I might try some RFT/Siemens EL34s. I've always preferred EL34 to 6L6.
 
FourT6and2":29hp1stu said:
Ok so I put some of those STR-387s into my amp and you know... I think the regular old JJ 6L6GCs sounded better. These Phillips tubes are looser and lack the forward mids of the JJs. Go figure.

I might try some RFT/Siemens EL34s. I've always preferred EL34 to 6L6.

Your results are far different from mine. The Sylvania's make everything tighter, more focused and more dynamic over new production tubes when I use them. I wish I liked a new tube more. I'd sell off my stash.
 
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