7 String owners, One last question

[mboogman]

I really like the Schecter 26.5. One thing to consider is a reverse headstock. This will give you higher string tension on the low strings due to the increased overall string length.

That's not really how it works.
String tension is a function of the vibrating length of the string, not the total length.

No, it is the overall length. This is why I did not put IMO, or IMHO. Because it is not an opinion, it is a fact. I built guitars for 1 of the biggest names in the industry for years. You may not notice a difference. this does not mean there is not one.

I don't know who you built guitars for, but no one I know that builds guitars would agree with you. What breaks over the nut isn't going to have a profound effect on the tension of the strings.

How would you explain a 7-string with a locking nut then?

The entire length of string is at tension before being locked at the nut. Again, fact.

I tend to agree here. My reverse headstock super strat has a much snappier low E than any of my other guitars, floyd or not. It also holds up better to lower tunings than my other sixes. Besides that, there's tension behind the nut too.

 

[polaris20]

I really like the Schecter 26.5. One thing to consider is a reverse headstock. This will give you higher string tension on the low strings due to the increased overall string length.

That's not really how it works.
String tension is a function of the vibrating length of the string, not the total length.

No, it is the overall length. This is why I did not put IMO, or IMHO. Because it is not an opinion, it is a fact. I built guitars for 1 of the biggest names in the industry for years. You may not notice a difference. this does not mean there is not one.

I don't know who you built guitars for, but no one I know that builds guitars would agree with you. What breaks over the nut isn't going to have a profound effect on the tension of the strings.

How would you explain a 7-string with a locking nut then?

The entire length of string is at tension before being locked at the nut. Again, fact.

Whatever dude. I guess instead of buying a baritone @ 27.7", I should have bought a standard scale guitar with a 3 foot headstock.

 

[Sixtonoize]

I really like the Schecter 26.5. One thing to consider is a reverse headstock. This will give you higher string tension on the low strings due to the increased overall string length.

That's not really how it works.
String tension is a function of the vibrating length of the string, not the total length.

No, it is the overall length. This is why I did not put IMO, or IMHO. Because it is not an opinion, it is a fact. I built guitars for 1 of the biggest names in the industry for years. You may not notice a difference. this does not mean there is not one.

I don't know who you built guitars for, but no one I know that builds guitars would agree with you. What breaks over the nut isn't going to have a profound effect on the tension of the strings.

How would you explain a 7-string with a locking nut then?

The entire length of string is at tension before being locked at the nut. Again, fact.

So you're saying that installing a locking nut will change the amount of tension on a string?
Or are you saying that clipping a string above the locking nut will change the tension of the string?
Are you implying that headless guitars have a significantly different amount of tension than guitars with headstocks?

 

[chunktone]

I really like the Schecter 26.5. One thing to consider is a reverse headstock. This will give you higher string tension on the low strings due to the increased overall string length.

That's not really how it works.
String tension is a function of the vibrating length of the string, not the total length.

No, it is the overall length. This is why I did not put IMO, or IMHO. Because it is not an opinion, it is a fact. I built guitars for 1 of the biggest names in the industry for years. You may not notice a difference. this does not mean there is not one.

I don't know who you built guitars for, but no one I know that builds guitars would agree with you. What breaks over the nut isn't going to have a profound effect on the tension of the strings.

How would you explain a 7-string with a locking nut then?

The entire length of string is at tension before being locked at the nut. Again, fact.

So you're saying that installing a locking nut will change the amount of tension on a string?
Or are you saying that clipping a string above the locking nut will change the tension of the string?
Are you implying that headless guitars have a significantly different amount of tension than guitars with headstocks?

I'm saying that, just as I put in my original post, that a reverse headstock will have a higher string tension on the low B(orE) than the same guitar with a standard headstock.

 

[diezelduder]

i am pretty sure the length in regards to string tension is the VIBRATING part of the string,

but yeah get a 27" scale you probably won't regret it,

and agile is known to have pretty decent stuff, and of course not to shabby looking

i say this as a 8 stringer (ok you guys can stop laughing) with a 30.5" scale on bottom and 26.5" scale on top, for string tension purposes, to make the strings with no flub, and the highs feel more like a guitar, it works trust me,

anyway it's (the 7 string) is gonna sound killer with the subs, t-rust me!

peace

 

[Toshiro]

I'm saying that, just as I put in my original post, that a reverse headstock will have a higher string tension on the low B(orE) than the same guitar with a standard headstock.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

My locknut reverse headstock guitars have the exact same tension as my locknut regular headstock guitars.

 

[Sixtonoize]

Oh SNAP.
Facts are factual.

 

[polaris20]

String gauge/material, scale length, and tuning are all that effect tension. The scale is calculated at the nut to the bridge, not the tuners. What's beyond the nut may effect bending (if it's not a locking nut), but it won't effect tension. A 25.5" Steinberger has the same tension as a Strat which has the same tension as a Washburn N4 (reversed headstock), all other factors (tuning, gauge) being the same.

 

[chunktone]

I'm saying that, just as I put in my original post, that a reverse headstock will have a higher string tension on the low B(orE) than the same guitar with a standard headstock.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

My locknut reverse headstock guitars have the exact same tension as my locknut regular headstock guitars.

Finally got a chance to read the link you posted. If you read their section on what they call "compliance" it just supports what I originally posted. Thanks!

 

[JakeAC5253]

27" 7 string GAS has hit and I'm blaming you

 

[Gsxrbusa]

27" 7 string GAS has hit and I'm blaming you

Right on man! You and me both. All I can think about latley is writing some shit on a 7 string. So, What brand/model you going for?

 

[JakeAC5253]

27" 7 string GAS has hit and I'm blaming you

Right on man! You and me both. All I can think about latley is writing some shit on a 7 string. So, What brand/model you going for?

Agile Septor with passives and TOM bridge. Haven't decided on a color yet, doesn't really matter that much I guess. Going to swap the pickups out for Duncans or maybe BKP's if I'm feeling sassy

 

[polaris20]

I'm saying that, just as I put in my original post, that a reverse headstock will have a higher string tension on the low B(orE) than the same guitar with a standard headstock.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

My locknut reverse headstock guitars have the exact same tension as my locknut regular headstock guitars.

Finally got a chance to read the link you posted. If you read their section on what they call "compliance" it just supports what I originally posted. Thanks!

Uh, no.

As mentioned in the introduction above, string tension is completely defined by three factors: the pitch the string is tuned to, its vibrating length, and its mass (weight) per unit of length.

"Vibrating Length". That's between the nut and the bridge saddle.

Conventional wisdom has it that a number of other factors affect string tension. Some of these are (in no particular order

The length of the string between the string anchor and the saddle of the bridge;

The length of the string between the tuning machine post or peg and the nut;

The breakover angle of the string at the bridge and/or the nut;

Once again, looking at the formula it is clear that none of these have any affect whatsoever on string tension.

As you can see, from the nut to the tuner does not have an affect on the string tension.
You're either trolling, or you're seriously misinformed.

 

[Gsxrbusa]

27" 7 string GAS has hit and I'm blaming you

Right on man! You and me both. All I can think about latley is writing some shit on a 7 string. So, What brand/model you going for?

Agile Septor with passives and TOM bridge. Haven't decided on a color yet, doesn't really matter that much I guess. Going to swap the pickups out for Duncans or maybe BKP's if I'm feeling sassy

Hell yeah. They seem pretty reasonable on the price, just in case I fucking hate it.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Hell yeah. They seem pretty reasonable on the price, just in case I fucking hate it.

If you get yours before I get mine you've gotta let me know how you like it!

 

[Gsxrbusa]

Hell yeah. They seem pretty reasonable on the price, just in case I fucking hate it.

If you get yours before I get mine you've gotta let me know how you like it!

Will do man

 

[mixohoytian]

I have no clue
I have a 7 string w/ 7 strings
with all the distortion and nu metal tone...no one will really differentiate between scale lengths...

 

[ke2]

I would believe that string tension and scale lenght are two different things?

I do notice a difference on my TOM ESP Eclipse when I wrap the strings over the bridge. It might just be that it is more pleasant for the right hand, though.

The scale lenght seems to be this, according to Stewmac:

And it is more or less constant on every string (intonation taken out of the equation), regardless if only 1+6, 2+5 and 3+4 have the same "tension", and string lenght.
The difference in thickness also plays a role in the string`s tension, so increasing the size of the string, will also increase the tension.

If a reverse headstock really MAKES a difference, I don`t know.
I only have one 7-string, a Squier Stagemaster with a reversed headstock. It sounds good when I put on a fairly thick low B.
To me, more meat on the 7th string seems to make the biggest difference Even if the rest of the guitar is strung with 009s.

 

[chunktone]

I'm saying that, just as I put in my original post, that a reverse headstock will have a higher string tension on the low B(orE) than the same guitar with a standard headstock.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

My locknut reverse headstock guitars have the exact same tension as my locknut regular headstock guitars.

Finally got a chance to read the link you posted. If you read their section on what they call "compliance" it just supports what I originally posted. Thanks!

Uh, no.

As mentioned in the introduction above, string tension is completely defined by three factors: the pitch the string is tuned to, its vibrating length, and its mass (weight) per unit of length.

"Vibrating Length". That's between the nut and the bridge saddle.

Conventional wisdom has it that a number of other factors affect string tension. Some of these are (in no particular order

The length of the string between the string anchor and the saddle of the bridge;

The length of the string between the tuning machine post or peg and the nut;

The breakover angle of the string at the bridge and/or the nut;

Once again, looking at the formula it is clear that none of these have any affect whatsoever on string tension.

As you can see, from the nut to the tuner does not have an affect on the string tension.
You're either trolling, or you're seriously misinformed.

OK, I'll try to slow this down for you. as I already stated, it's what the are calling "compliance" in the link above. But, I don't expect you will understand the content.

 

[polaris20]

I'm saying that, just as I put in my original post, that a reverse headstock will have a higher string tension on the low B(orE) than the same guitar with a standard headstock.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

My locknut reverse headstock guitars have the exact same tension as my locknut regular headstock guitars.

Finally got a chance to read the link you posted. If you read their section on what they call "compliance" it just supports what I originally posted. Thanks!

Uh, no.

As mentioned in the introduction above, string tension is completely defined by three factors: the pitch the string is tuned to, its vibrating length, and its mass (weight) per unit of length.

"Vibrating Length". That's between the nut and the bridge saddle.

Conventional wisdom has it that a number of other factors affect string tension. Some of these are (in no particular order

The length of the string between the string anchor and the saddle of the bridge;

The length of the string between the tuning machine post or peg and the nut;

The breakover angle of the string at the bridge and/or the nut;

Once again, looking at the formula it is clear that none of these have any affect whatsoever on string tension.

As you can see, from the nut to the tuner does not have an affect on the string tension.
You're either trolling, or you're seriously misinformed.

OK, I'll try to slow this down for you. as I already stated, it's what the are calling "compliance" in the link above. But, I don't expect you will understand the content.

It is that section that I am quoting that proves you wrong. Once again, in case you missed it:

Conventional wisdom has it that a number of other factors affect string tension. Some of these are (in no particular order

The length of the string between the string anchor and the saddle of the bridge;

The length of the string between the tuning machine post or peg and the nut;

The breakover angle of the string at the bridge and/or the nut;

Once again, looking at the formula it is clear that none of these have any affect whatsoever on string tension.

Look, I'm sorry if you don't know the difference between string tension and compliance or elasticity. But at least man up and admit when you're wrong.

Reverse headstocks have no affect on string tension. String length between the tuner and nut have no affect on string tension.

If you want to keep trolling, be my guest. You've got to be trolling. Either that or you've got a considerable reading comprehension problem.

EDIT

Also, see this page:

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/tension.htm

Notice that the tension calculator doesn't ask for the string length between the nut and the tuner. It asks for "L = vibrating length of the string (for an open string, this would be the scale length) in inches;"

That's because again, string length between nut and tuner have no affect on string tension.