8 ohm 4x12 vs 16 ohm 4x12 - any difference??

[Vrad]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

 

[sled]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

How can you have an 8 ohm speaker that's also 16 ohms.

a 4x12 cab cannot be wired to both 8 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 4 ohm speakers can only be wired to 1, 4 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 8 ohm speakers can only be wired to 2, 8 or 32 ohms.

4x12 - 16 ohm speakers can only be wired to 4, 16 or 64 ohms

 

[Vrad]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

How can you have an 8 ohm speaker that's also 16 ohms.

a 4x12 cab cannot be wired to both 8 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 4 ohm speakers can only be wired to 1, 4 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 8 ohm speakers can only be wired to 2, 8 or 32 ohms.

4x12 - 16 ohm speakers can only be wired to 4, 16 or 64 ohms

Because I rule... That's how.

 

[glpg80]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

impedance versus frequency output? there are going to be MANY more uncontrolled variables in action with speakers and cables and other properties before you can isolate the differences you hear to a meer 8 ohms impedance Z as the reason/factor.

whether or not you are changing the impedance at the speakers or at the windings of the OT the difference is still going to be negligible with impedance Z being the independent variable. speakers are not the source of the current, the OT is. what you are hearing is not impedance versus frequency, you are hearing power efficiency in regards to the source.

the difference you HEAR is not at the speakers, they are only turning electrical current into mechanical. the difference you hear is the OT itself and dependent not only with each amplifier, but literally with each transformer. changing speakers is only introducing more variables and is not a controlled comparison. saying that the impedance is to blame for frequency differences is beyond outrageous - so many other resistive, reactive, capacitive, and current based properties are acting here its not even funny.

 

[Lord Toneking]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

How can you have an 8 ohm speaker that's also 16 ohms.

a 4x12 cab cannot be wired to both 8 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 4 ohm speakers can only be wired to 1, 4 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 8 ohm speakers can only be wired to 2, 8 or 32 ohms.

4x12 - 16 ohm speakers can only be wired to 4, 16 or 64 ohms

Because I rule... That's how.

 

[Vrad]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

How can you have an 8 ohm speaker that's also 16 ohms.

a 4x12 cab cannot be wired to both 8 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 4 ohm speakers can only be wired to 1, 4 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 8 ohm speakers can only be wired to 2, 8 or 32 ohms.

4x12 - 16 ohm speakers can only be wired to 4, 16 or 64 ohms

Because I rule... That's how.

Seriously though, there is a difference. The comparison between the 8 ohm and 16 ohm gb's in the same cab is all that's necessary IMO. Since a cab is a cab. What we're talking about is the difference between the different transformer taps. Whether or not it's coming from the speaker or from the transformer is almost irrelavent to me since you won't run off of a 16 ohm tap into an 8 ohm transformer. However, if you want to run a 16 ohm cab off the 8 ohm tap you'll notice it's somewhat darker and squishier.

 

[glip22]

Does any of this matter if you suck?

 

[Vrad]

Does any of this matter if you suck?

Well sure it does! One can suck slightly brighter or slightly darker... lol

 

[JakeAC5253]

Vrad. Out of curiosity, are you talking about the difference between running the cab in mono using 1 cable vs. running the cab in stereo using 2 cables?

 

[Vrad]

Vrad. Out of curiosity, are you talking about the difference between running the cab in mono using 1 cable vs. running the cab in stereo using 2 cables?

1 cable into a mono cab. Simple 1 jack cab.

 

[Lord Toneking]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

How can you have an 8 ohm speaker that's also 16 ohms.

a 4x12 cab cannot be wired to both 8 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 4 ohm speakers can only be wired to 1, 4 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 8 ohm speakers can only be wired to 2, 8 or 32 ohms.

4x12 - 16 ohm speakers can only be wired to 4, 16 or 64 ohms

Because I rule... That's how.

Seriously though, there is a difference. The comparison between the 8 ohm and 16 ohm gb's in the same cab is all that's necessary IMO. Since a cab is a cab. What we're talking about is the difference between the different transformer taps. Whether or not it's coming from the speaker or from the transformer is almost irrelavent to me since you won't run off of a 16 ohm tap into an 8 ohm transformer. However, if you want to run a 16 ohm cab off the 8 ohm tap you'll notice it's somewhat darker and squishier.

So being that I have a Quickrod and the cab is a small block loaded splawn 4x12, is your sb loaded cab gonna sound better than mine? brighter? crunchier?

I am soooo over thinking this

 

[Vrad]

an 8ohm 4x12 cab comparison versus a 16 ohm 4x12 cab is meaningless.

first off the same speakers can't be used. throw out that test. four 8 ohms speakers can't be wired to 16 ohms and four 16 ohms speaker can't be wired to 8 ohms.

now, a 16ohm 4x12 versus the same set of speakers in the same cab wired to 4 ohms can be tested.

what's going to happen is an averaging versus additive impedance affect. each speaker's impedance versus frequency response affects the other speakers and what total impedance the amps output sees. a parallel or averaging response is different than a series or additive response. these are very complex interactions.

My observations are based on the same cab and the same speakers.
16 ohm GB Reissues
vs.
8 ohm GB Reissues

16 ohm GB's crunchier and brighter
8 ohm GB's smoother and darker

they're different speakers. useless test.

same speakers.

How can you have an 8 ohm speaker that's also 16 ohms.

a 4x12 cab cannot be wired to both 8 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 4 ohm speakers can only be wired to 1, 4 or 16 ohms.

4x12 - 8 ohm speakers can only be wired to 2, 8 or 32 ohms.

4x12 - 16 ohm speakers can only be wired to 4, 16 or 64 ohms

Because I rule... That's how.

Seriously though, there is a difference. The comparison between the 8 ohm and 16 ohm gb's in the same cab is all that's necessary IMO. Since a cab is a cab. What we're talking about is the difference between the different transformer taps. Whether or not it's coming from the speaker or from the transformer is almost irrelavent to me since you won't run off of a 16 ohm tap into an 8 ohm transformer. However, if you want to run a 16 ohm cab off the 8 ohm tap you'll notice it's somewhat darker and squishier.

So being that I have a Quickrod and the cab is a small block loaded splawn 4x12, is your sb loaded cab gonna sound better than mine? brighter? crunchier?

I am soooo over thinking this

Relax... It will sound awesome. The 4x12 with SB25's at 16 ohms sounds awesome with my QR. You'll love it.

 

[JMP2203]

To me, the 16ohm cab sounds brighter and crunchier. Possibly more responsive.
The 8 ohm cab is warmer. Highs are a bit rolled off, smoother.

Less highs in the 8 ohm. 16 uses the most windings of the transformer.

not true:

http://www.vhtusers.com/forums/showpost ... ostcount=3
http://www.vhtusers.com/forums/showpost ... ostcount=4

 

[glpg80]

To me, the 16ohm cab sounds brighter and crunchier. Possibly more responsive.
The 8 ohm cab is warmer. Highs are a bit rolled off, smoother.

Less highs in the 8 ohm. 16 uses the most windings of the transformer.

not true:

http://www.vhtusers.com/forums/showpost ... ostcount=3
http://www.vhtusers.com/forums/showpost ... ostcount=4

actually, it is true. or do you think the different taps coming off of an output transformer are for pretty looks only?

what glip probably should have mentioned that he was talking about the secondary of the OT only.

you are taking in/out windings to adjust the impedance secondary to primary for power efficiency. the "damping factor" you are talking about deals with exactly the same thing i mentioned earlier about transformer resonance frequency which shifts reactance when including internal core winding resistances, inductances, and audio frequencies. you are correct in that current output does not decrease with decrease in winding count, but you are false in saying 16 ohms uses the same winding count as 8 or 4 ohm taps.

the designer has to take carefully into consideration the resonant rolloff point or basically your amplifier will turn into a motorboating mushpit at high volumes when using negative feedback back into the phase inverter. this factor is multiplied depending on which tap 4/8/16 you take the negative feedback from.

also, the same holds true that construction tolerances need to be adhered otherwise you wont be able to tell the difference from any of the winding taps on the secondary. a shit transformer made of shit tolerances and shit materials will sound like shit. you cant expect to hear a difference if the equipment is not designed properly in the first place

 

[Ventura]

Man, I click into this thread and it's like a hen party!!!

I'll make my observations regarding the OP's question straight up. For whatever reason, I find 16ohm cabs - and don't ask me why cuz personally I couldn't give a shit what they're rated at - more dynamic and more rich, than the 8ohm cabs. I don't know why, I don't know if it's mental, or what. The 8ohm cabs I've used (and have done so cab per cab, speaker per speaker) just felt kinda stiff - if that makes any sense at all. And please understand, I really don't care what's in there, I'm not an impedance connoisseur or anything of the like (you know, chatting with Tag about the gauge of wire in boutique handmade cabs on a Sunday morn...). As mentioned, I typically didn't care. BUT!!!! I find 16 ohm cabs to sound better - period.

And I don't know why

V.

 

[some dude]

One thing that usually gets overlooked in threads like this is the wire used for the coil windings in the speaker.

It's probably been 6 or 7 years since I read it, but a long time ago someone posted a bunch of information explaining that a 16ohm speaker and 8ohm speaker weren't identical... which should be obvious considering the impedances measure different. The gist of it (I'm not an expert, but maybe someone else can chime in) is that speaker manufacturers sometimes have to use different wire gauges to get the different impedances whist getting the coil to fit in the same chassis. This creates small variances in between the two speaker types.

The dude went into way more technical detail, but my mind is too fried to remember all that shit.

However... as an example Eminence actually gives details of their 8 and 16ohm speakers separately. I pulled up the .PDF on their Wizard speaker, and right off the top it lists a different resonance for each one (89Hz/8ohm vs 100Hz/16ohm), usable frequency range (70Hz-5.5kHz vs 70Hz-6kHz) and sensitivity (103dB vs 103.5dB).

Further, if you compare the chart on each speaker you can see that the response isn't identical and by the looks of it the 16ohm version will be a brighter speaker.

Anyway, here's the link to the .PDFs...

http://eminence.com/pdf/wizard.pdf
http://eminence.com/pdf/wizard-16.pdf

 

[TeleBlaster]

Don't know about the speakers themselves, but my amp sounds better with transformer set at the 16 ohm tap, so all my cabs are wired for 16. 4x12's use 16 ohm speakers and the 2x12's use 8.

 

[Lord Toneking]

Man, now Im wishing I was getting 16 ohm speakers

Josh and Scott are gonna kill me if I call and change the order. I have been nothing but a pest to them guys during this whole ordeal

 

[Vrad]

Man, now Im wishing I was getting 16 ohm speakers

Josh and Scott are gonna kill me if I call and change the order. I have been nothing but a pest to them guys during this whole ordeal

DO IT!
Change it to 16 ohms.

 

[Lord Toneking]

Man, now Im wishing I was getting 16 ohm speakers

Josh and Scott are gonna kill me if I call and change the order. I have been nothing but a pest to them guys during this whole ordeal

DO IT!
Change it to 16 ohms.

Just called and changed it

Gonna be another couple weeks before they get speakers in though