A/B/Y amp switcher??? and MIDI programing questions. updated

[Gainfreak]

Gainfreak upon further reserch, I think the Amp gizmo is probably the way I want to go for the switching.

Now... How about that A/B/Y? What's good?

sup bro!! The amp gizmo and GCX are very similar but Im pretty sure that the GCX can be used for a/b/y splitting and can control your effects and amp switching! Think of the GCX as like a multiple effects loop that has relays that can switch your amps and it all can be midi controled. You can switch between the 2 heads or have them play at the same time all through midi plus you can also change your effects on the fly.

http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Gainfreak upon further reserch, I think the Amp gizmo is probably the way I want to go for the switching.

Now... How about that A/B/Y? What's good?

sup bro!! The amp gizmo and GCX are very similar but Im pretty sure that the GCX can be used for a/b/y splitting and can control your effects and amp switching! Think of the GCX as like a multiple effects loop that has relays that can switch your amps and it all can be midi controled. You can switch between the 2 heads or have them play at the same time all through midi plus you can also change your effects on the fly.

http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm

The GCX can't really do amp channel switching alone, it is really a loop switcher, but it can do a/b/y. I use this with the GCX and Ground Control for channel switching (like on a MKIV).

FootSim

It works and it is under $200

Steve

 

[again with this]

Gainfreak upon further reserch, I think the Amp gizmo is probably the way I want to go for the switching.

Now... How about that A/B/Y? What's good?

sup bro!! The amp gizmo and GCX are very similar but Im pretty sure that the GCX can be used for a/b/y splitting and can control your effects and amp switching! Think of the GCX as like a multiple effects loop that has relays that can switch your amps and it all can be midi controled. You can switch between the 2 heads or have them play at the same time all through midi plus you can also change your effects on the fly.

http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm

The GCX can't really do amp channel switching alone, it is really a loop switcher, but it can do a/b/y. I use this with the GCX and Ground Control for channel switching (like on a MKIV).

FootSim

It works and it is under $200

Steve

The Foot Sim does look like it will do what I want, but I'll still need a signal splitter.

Steve, can you elaborate a little on, "The GCX can't really do amp channel switching alone, it is really a loop switcher, but it can do a/b/y."? I plan on giving the manual a read later today. Any summary is helpful. What do the GCX units go for?

I am thinking this is going to be a big expense for something that won't really be practical for me to use live (but will make rehearsal super fun). Most of the clubs I am thinking I can play to start out will laugh if I ask them If I can set up my 3 cabinet wet/dry/wet rig. Often, there just isn't room on the tiny little stages metal bands get to play areound here.

At the moment, I am thinking I should focus on a sweet A/B/Y for practice and deal with a little tap dance to see if this is realy as good of an idea as I think it is. On the other hand, if I get hooked, I don't want to start the purchase process all over again (not having bought something that does it all to begin with). Hence the GCX question. Not to mention, it seems the Amp Gizmo is about $400 and a cool A/B/Y is going to be in the nighborhood of $300 (I think that's close to what the Framptone goes for. I will research prices later too.). So, if the GCX is in the $700 range and does it all, that may be the way to go.

The worst part of all this is none of these toys seem readily available and easy to "try before buy". Another counterpoint, I did a little searching on line and there doesn't seem to be much (any) of this type of stuff flaoting around used, which tells me it's friggin' cool and dudes aren't going back to non-rack setups after a taste of the wet/dry/wet.

 

[Anonymous]

The Foot Sim does look like it will do what I want, but I'll still need a signal splitter.

Right, and that is exactly what a GCX can do for you.

Steve, can you elaborate a little on, "The GCX can't really do amp channel switching alone, it is really a loop switcher, but it can do a/b/y."? I plan on giving the manual a read later today. Any summary is helpful. What do the GCX units go for?

What the GCX allows you to do is split your signal to multiple paths. You can get one for ~ $300 used. As Ralph was saying you can use a midi foot controller to switch:

1) effects (both pedals and rack efx) in and out of the signal path
2) amps in and out or both (a/b/y)

However, in and of itself, the GCX does nothing - you need a midi foot controller to send midi change commands to tell which loops on the GCX you want to activate. The foot controller also can send midi signals to rack effects and amps as well. You can put two different amps in GCX loops and turn them on or off (or both) at will with presets on your foot controller. Now, even if your amp is midi switchable, like a 5150, you CAN'T switch channels with just a GCX and a Ground Control Pro midi foot controller. You NEED the Footsim or something like it because the 5150 does not have a standard 5 pin midi input (I checked the manual). With the Footsim, you can connect a normal footswitch cable to the 5150 and program the Ground Control Pro to send the correct signals to the Footsim (which has a standard 5 pin midi input) and switch channels on a 5150 or any other midi switchable amp that DOES NOT have a standard 5 pin midi input. The same is true of that Rectifier preamp you have (once again I checked the manual) - you need the Footsim because the Recto preamp does not have a midi 5 pin input. With the Footsim (for midi switching of your 5150 and Recto pre channels), GCX (for a/b/y and efx in/out) and the Ground Control Pro (for actually send the midi commands to do ALL of the things you want to do - remember - the GCX and Footsim need to be controlled by something to do ANYTHING) - you can do everything you want.

Clear as mud, right?

I am thinking this is going to be a big expense for something that won't really be practical for me to use live (but will make rehearsal super fun). Most of the clubs I am thinking I can play to start out will laugh if I ask them If I can set up my 3 cabinet wet/dry/wet rig. Often, there just isn't room on the tiny little stages metal bands get to play areound here.

I wouldn't see why this would not be a completely practical setup for live. You could use 1x12 cabs for wet and 1 4x12 for dry. I'd do it...

At the moment, I am thinking I should focus on a sweet A/B/Y for practice and deal with a little tap dance to see if this is realy as good of an idea as I think it is. On the other hand, if I get hooked, I don't want to start the purchase process all over again (not having bought something that does it all to begin with). Hence the GCX question. Not to mention, it seems the Amp Gizmo is about $400 and a cool A/B/Y is going to be in the nighborhood of $300 (I think that's close to what the Framptone goes for. I will research prices later too.). So, if the GCX is in the $700 range and does it all, that may be the way to go.

You can get a used GCX for ~ $300, a used Ground Control Pro for ~ $350 and a new FootSim for $200 (won't find 'em used) - $850 total or so. The Amp Gizmo is not the best option IMO - too expensive and you won't find 'em used.

The worst part of all this is none of these toys seem readily available and easy to "try before buy". Another counterpoint, I did a little searching on line and there doesn't seem to be much (any) of this type of stuff flaoting around used, which tells me it's friggin' cool and dudes aren't going back to non-rack setups after a taste of the wet/dry/wet.

You could come down to SoCal an try my rig The MKIV is gone, but I'll have an Egnater seminar amp to replace it in a few weeks... In the closeups of the rack, you can see the Footsim on the left of the little purple pedal on the top shelf of the rack under the two GCXs...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, I did ask about splitting the GMajor relays. but that was more of an uninformed means to an end.

Really the GMajor switching the Mesa is just fine, what I really want is to ADD the 5150 to the mix and have it switch clean/distorted at the same time as the Mesas. that's where I was going with the relay splitting.

The effects on the Mesa are fine, don't need them on the 5150. Just want them to switch channels simultaneously.

Sorry if I was unclear.

What's this amp gizmo?

Sup! I just wasn't sure if I was clear lol!! With that said the GCX can control both amps at the same time as well as switch your effects. The amp gizmo is like the GCX switcher.
you can check it out here!

http://www.rjmmusic.com/ampgizmo.php

OMG

thats EXACTLY. what i needed.

my 5150II is MIDI, and controlling the bank's and program functions via my midi footswitch just cant be programmed. i was confoosed.

that box is exactly what i have needed. awsome. imho the info here should be renamed MIDI TOPIC and become a sticky =]

Dude - you could do the same thing with a Footsim for half the price. I see no reason to spend more money for the Gizmo in your case.

Stve

 

[again with this]

Steve - you are the man! thanks. Great answers.

The more I think of it the more I am sold on the FootSim. It does exactly what I need two TRS switchers. Two TRS cables and I am there. I am no longer depedant on the Gmajor for switching and can experiment with other effects units.

Since I am on a "budget" on this, minimalism is a must. So 200 for the FootSim is in my range.

Now... How about that A/B/Y? I am thinking Framptone or Voodoo. The voodoo is totally in my price range.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Voodoo-Lab- ... 1124747.gc

Anybody used it? Anything else I should look at?

 

[Anonymous]

The more I think of it the more I am sold on the FootSim. It does exactly what I need two TRS switchers. Two TRS cables and I am there. I am no longer depedant on the Gmajor for switching and can experiment with other effects units.

What midi controller (foot controller) are you going to use to trigger the Footsim? Remember, the Footsim does nothing by itself. It converts midi commands sent to it by something else (usually a foot controller) to trs switch commands to trigger your amp.

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Now... How about that A/B/Y? I am thinking Framptone or Voodoo. The voodoo is totally in my price range.

I prefer the Framptone as you might have guessed, but if you add one, you are gonna be tap dancing. You need a midi foot controller to control the footsim (or the amp gizmo, unless you are gonna walk over and press buttons). Given that you need both of those - why not get a GCX instead of the Framptone of Voodoo? You're are talking about $50 more to get one button press switching of everything instead of tap dancing between the A/B/Y and midi switcher with room to grow if you want to add pedal effects etc... Makes no sense to buy and Analog A/B/Y in your setup...

Steve

 

[again with this]

The more I think of it the more I am sold on the FootSim. It does exactly what I need two TRS switchers. Two TRS cables and I am there. I am no longer depedant on the Gmajor for switching and can experiment with other effects units.

What midi controller (foot controller) are you going to use to trigger the Footsim? Remember, the Footsim does nothing by itself. It converts midi commands sent to it by something else (usually a foot controller) to trs switch commands to trigger your amp.

Steve

Roland FC-200 is the foot controller I have. Won't that worK? I think I can run it pretty much the same as I do now, just set the the Footsim relays and save the patches. Yes?

 

[Anonymous]

The more I think of it the more I am sold on the FootSim. It does exactly what I need two TRS switchers. Two TRS cables and I am there. I am no longer depedant on the Gmajor for switching and can experiment with other effects units.

What midi controller (foot controller) are you going to use to trigger the Footsim? Remember, the Footsim does nothing by itself. It converts midi commands sent to it by something else (usually a foot controller) to trs switch commands to trigger your amp.

Steve

Roland FC-200 is the foot controller I have. Won't that worK? I think I can run it pretty much the same as I do now, just set the the Footsim relays and save the patches. Yes?

Yup, you should be good. I didn't know you have a separate midi foot controller. I'd still grab a GCX if I was you for $50 more that a Framptone. Will give you much more versatility long term for not much...

Steve

 

[again with this]

Now... How about that A/B/Y? I am thinking Framptone or Voodoo. The voodoo is totally in my price range.

I prefer the Framptone as you might have guessed, but if you add one, you are gonna be tap dancing. You need a midi foot controller to control the footsim (or the amp gizmo, unless you are gonna walk over and press buttons). Given that you need both of those - why not get a GCX instead of the Framptone of Voodoo? You're are talking about $50 more to get one button press switching of everything instead of tap dancing between the A/B/Y and midi switcher with room to grow if you want to add pedal effects etc... Makes no sense to buy and Analog A/B/Y in your setup...

Steve

I really don't need an A/B "switcher" as much as a nice quiet, non-tone sucking, Y-"splitter". I sorta assume either the Voodoo or Framptone could be left in "Y" mode, wether the amps are powered up or not... With the amps I have, all I really need is to split my signal and switch between clean and dirty.

 

[again with this]

What midi controller (foot controller) are you going to use to trigger the Footsim? Remember, the Footsim does nothing by itself. It converts midi commands sent to it by something else (usually a foot controller) to trs switch commands to trigger your amp.

Steve

Roland FC-200 is the foot controller I have. Won't that worK? I think I can run it pretty much the same as I do now, just set the the Footsim relays and save the patches. Yes?

Yup, you should be good. I didn't know you have a separate midi foot controller. I'd still grab a GCX if I was you for $50 more that a Framptone. Will give you much more versatility long term for not much...

Steve

I understand where you are comming from. Headroom is good on a gear purchase and I have a feeling if this all goes well, this is just the beginning of the rack GAS. I need to read the GCX manual later when I have some time. I'm still not clear if it will to both "Y" and relay switching, if it does, it's a lock. If I understand them correctly, I think Ralph and Zach both said it would.

However, Using what I have to get the ball rolling is also a must. I could stick the Footsim and Framptone in the back of the 6 space rack I am using now. It's If I start getting more units, then I'll need abigger rack. And so on... Again, if the GCX does it all, then ~$300 used sounds better than $450 (because I probably won't find used) for piecing it together.

On the other hand, I do have a 8 space I am not using...and I wanted to mount up my wireless... But then there's ease of transport and footprint considerations. The 6 space if pretty conveinient, like a big head.

At any rate, I have a lot to think about. I'll know more after reading the GCX manual. Where can I pick up one of those Framptone deals, in case I want to go that way?

Edit: reread the thread... Anybody got a line on a used GCX? Edit, edit: Nevermind... several on evilBay.

 

[again with this]

Reading the GCX manual, it looks like it does everything I need it to. The only down sides are... Looks like the only input is inthe front (no hiding the input cable in the back of the rack) and it says it only responds to singnals on MIDI channel 16. I think my FC-200 might only do channel 1. Better contact tech support. So close but yet so far.

evilBay prices look like $400 new and shipped. Even from Guitar Center. Any better retailers? Any forumites sell these new?

 

[nwright]

My recommendation for a nice ABY pedal is a Radial BigShot ABY. It has an isolation transformer, phase reverse and ground lift all built into it, and it's still passive. True Bypass, IIRC, and it doesn't suck tone. You can go for the more expensive Framptone or other Radial ToneBone stuff, but the BigShot gets it done just as well, IMO, for far less. I paid 70 bucks for mine new.

Of course, this is only in reference to the ABY ideal, not all that GCX, Gizmo, etc. stuff.

 

[again with this]

My recommendation for a nice ABY pedal is a Radial BigShot ABY. It has an isolation transformer, phase reverse and ground lift all built into it, and it's still passive. True Bypass, IIRC, and it doesn't suck tone. You can go for the more expensive Framptone or other Radial ToneBone stuff, but the BigShot gets it done just as well, IMO, for far less. I paid 70 bucks for mine new.

Of course, this is only in reference to the ABY ideal, not all that GCX, Gizmo, etc. stuff.

Thanks for your input bro!

At this point, I am, pretty much sold on the GCX. Even at $400 new, it's a deal for everything I want to do. I could have listened to Ralph, Zach and Steve earlier in the thread. But, I had to know why and do the research...Thanks guys, you rule!!!

I'll probably end up needing another couple hundred bucks worth of cables, and it will be on like Donkey Kong.

Ugh. Figuring out how to program everything is a whole separate challenge.

Anyone else using a Roland FC-200 controller, GCX and a Gmajor that could save me some reasearch time with setup instructions?

 

[again with this]

I would recommend that reading the following is a good place to start re: MIDI what it is etc...

http://www.musicplayers.com/tutorials/guitars/2006/0306_MIDIFootControllers.php

Thank you Zach. This looks exactly like where I need to start.

So, what's the next thing I should read besides the manuals for the equipment I am using?

 

[Zachman]

I would recommend that reading the following is a good place to start re: MIDI what it is etc...

http://www.musicplayers.com/tutorials/guitars/2006/0306_MIDIFootControllers.php

Thank you Zach. This looks exactly like where I need to start.

So, what's the next thing I should read besides the manuals for the equipment I am using?

Well... When I started preparing for my latest rack endeavor, I knew what I wanted to do, but wasn't hip on the latest technology to control all the stuff I wanted to have control over, and I began reading EVERYTHING at the link below, and found some concepts and ideas that I wasn't aware of- in terms of rig design, and the options that were available to provide flexibility with my guitar tones.

The MIDI stuff, as I perceive it, is broken down into the following categories- in my rig:

* The MIDI Foot controller's presets

* The MIDI Channels that the devices, and control functions (Amp Selection, each device ie- TC 2290, TC 1210, Lexicon PCM-80, Eventide H8000FW, loops in the Custom Switcher that control each pedal on my pedal tray, etc...)

*The Concept of MIDI Mapping the 'PRESETS' of EACH processor(When creating a preset that calls up any/all combinations of individual presets of the processors in 1 button press), to the "PRESETS" that your Foot Controller calls up on each of your devices-when you push ex preset #4 on your Foot Controller--(You call up "Preset" # R2.4 on the Lexicon, "Preset" #6615 on the Eventide, "Preset" #4 on the TC 2290).

Some Devices are easier than others to assign the MIDI Mapping than others, but once you get the hang of it and "Design" the layout of your MIDI Channels that each of your devices will be sending/receiving on, (assuming you're not just running everything in OMNI mode) putting together presets is a snap.

I am not sure if the following site is exactly what you're hoping for, but I found some very interesting and useful info there, and hope you may find some useful tidbits as well.

http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/frequently_asked_questions.htm

Here is the Signal Routing Diagram of my rig, Custom Switcher and Foot Controller diagrams as well-that may or may not be of use to you, but may provide a means to assist you in keeping track of your own stuff if nothing more perhaps the basic format:

 

[Anonymous]

My recommendation for a nice ABY pedal is a Radial BigShot ABY. It has an isolation transformer, phase reverse and ground lift all built into it, and it's still passive. True Bypass, IIRC, and it doesn't suck tone. You can go for the more expensive Framptone or other Radial ToneBone stuff, but the BigShot gets it done just as well, IMO, for far less. I paid 70 bucks for mine new.

Of course, this is only in reference to the ABY ideal, not all that GCX, Gizmo, etc. stuff.

Thanks for your input bro!

At this point, I am, pretty much sold on the GCX. Even at $400 new, it's a deal for everything I want to do. I could have listened to Ralph, Zach and Steve earlier in the thread. But, I had to know why and do the research...Thanks guys, you rule!!!

I'll probably end up needing another couple hundred bucks worth of cables, and it will be on like Donkey Kong.

Ugh. Figuring out how to program everything is a whole separate challenge.

Anyone else using a Roland FC-200 controller, GCX and a Gmajor that could save me some reasearch time with setup instructions?

Just remember - you need the Footsim if you want to switch channels on either the 5150 or Recto pre. The GCX does not do that with just the roland controller.

Steve

 

[again with this]

My recommendation for a nice ABY pedal is a Radial BigShot ABY. It has an isolation transformer, phase reverse and ground lift all built into it, and it's still passive. True Bypass, IIRC, and it doesn't suck tone. You can go for the more expensive Framptone or other Radial ToneBone stuff, but the BigShot gets it done just as well, IMO, for far less. I paid 70 bucks for mine new.

Of course, this is only in reference to the ABY ideal, not all that GCX, Gizmo, etc. stuff.

Thanks for your input bro!

At this point, I am, pretty much sold on the GCX. Even at $400 new, it's a deal for everything I want to do. I could have listened to Ralph, Zach and Steve earlier in the thread. But, I had to know why and do the research...Thanks guys, you rule!!!

I'll probably end up needing another couple hundred bucks worth of cables, and it will be on like Donkey Kong.

Ugh. Figuring out how to program everything is a whole separate challenge.

Anyone else using a Roland FC-200 controller, GCX and a Gmajor that could save me some reasearch time with setup instructions?

Just remember - you need the Footsim if you want to switch channels on either the 5150 or Recto pre. The GCX does not do that with just the roland controller.

Steve

You sure about that? I know that's what you're doing... but from the manual:

Simple "Y" No loops needed

OR... Dynamic A/B/Y using two loops

and one loop per relay/switch

Looks like it will do it. Am I missing something?

 

[Anonymous]

Using Loops as Switches
________________________________________________________
GCX loops will act as footswitches like those used for amp channel switching and
bypassing signal processors.
The GCX supports both standard switch types, latched and momentary. You can also
select between normally open and normally closed operation.
Latched or momentary modes are selected from your Ground Control (see "Using the
GCX with a Ground Control"). Normally open and normally closed operation are
selected by plugging into either the OUT/N.O. jack (for Normally Open), or the SEND/N.C.
jack (for Normally Closed).
Latching Type
Most footswitch inputs on amps, preamps, and effects devices require latching type
switches. A latching switch has two possible states, either open (tip and sleeve
unconnected), or closed (tip and sleeve are connected together).
To control latching footswitches from a GCX loop, simply connect from the GCX loop
OUT/N.O. jack to the footswitch jack:

Sounds like it will do it.

You're right - the reason I needed the Footsim is that I didn't want to waste 4 loops of my GCX to cover all the possible switching on my MKIV. I would have needed to waste half the loops just on switching the MKIV and I had a lot of other things I needed to be able to do... You should be fine...

Steve