A Bar Owner's Craigslist Post

[guitarmike]

For the last 13-14 years I went along with this line of thinking and played some absolutely horrible music, but I had fun playing it when there was a crowd. I live in Milwaukee and it is next to impossible to get a following playing pop/new country/rock. There are literally 35 bands in Milwaukee that have a female singer and share50% or more of the same music.
I was part of that thinking that with a good show and a great singer we'd stand out and it never happened. My guy singer owns Blizzard lighting and we'd bring $10,000 - 15,000 worth of computer controlled lights, had a great sounding pa, and we were luck to draw 40 people on a Saturday night.

A little over a year ago I quit and started the Iron Maiden tribute thinking it would last 2 shows. I pull 100+ people at each gig, however we only play once every 5-6 weeks. The difference is amazing, I would have done this a long time ago if I would have known it would work. For the rest of my music career it is going to be hard rock tribute bands for me. There is a market waiting to see a "concert" of their favorite band and it is a hell of a lot more fun than Brown Eyed girl and Hit me With Your Best Shot. Oh yeah, it pays about the same only now I don't bring pa or lights and play 2 instead of 4 hours.

 

[MississippiMetal]

I absolutely see where he's coming from. A lot of bands need to read this.

But here's the flip side of the coin: The bar owner gets what he pays for. If you're paying a 4 piece band $200, don't bitch when they aren't dressed to the nines and melting the crowd with charisma.

 

[squank]

I absolutely see where he's coming from. A lot of bands need to read this.

But here's the flip side of the coin: The bar owner gets what he pays for. If you're paying a 4 piece band $200, don't bitch when they aren't dressed to the nines and melting the crowd with charisma.

Good point.

 

[zuel69]

Anybody that would just hands down agree with that bar owners rant must not have been playing in the clubs back in better days. Sure it's a business and a good band put's asses in the seats and makes the bar money..this cheap ass wants complete control and is very greedy.

 

[spirit7]

I play prog and this guy can go fuck himself. Frankly, I'd rather play venues where people come to actually appreciate the music. Music is not "entertainment" in the same way that watching sport is. It is not a vehicle to sell alcohol. It should be about producing music that you (the musician) appreciate. If other people like it, great. If not, who cares? The most important thing is that the person creating the music feels creatively fulfilled. Everything else is a bonus.

-C

 

[PeteLaramee]

Nothing new in the bar owner's dissertation. That seems like the typical mainstream bar. I prefer the exception/specialty bars that cater to a certain genre.

There's a room in Baltimore where they only have prog bands. It's fucking awesome. It's not a bar so you can byob. Any and all door charges go directly to the bands. The owner doesn't take one fucking cent to run these shows. He does it for the love of music and prog. They have bands ranging from local and fairly unknown acts to Spock's Beard to the Aristocrats to Bruford-Levin Experiment (where some of their live CD was recorded). It is, by far, my favorite place to play AND go see a show.

 

[spirit7]

Nothing new in the bar owner's dissertation. That seems like the typical mainstream bar. I prefer the exception/specialty bars that cater to a certain genre.

There's a room in Baltimore where they only have prog bands. It's fucking awesome. It's not a bar so you can byob. Any and all door charges go directly to the bands. The owner doesn't take one fucking cent to run these shows. He does it for the love of music and prog. They have bands ranging from local and fairly unknown acts to Spock's Beard to the Aristocrats to Bruford-Levin Experiment (where some of their live CD was recorded). It is, by far, my favorite place to play AND go see a show.

That sounds amazing!

-C

 

[Mr. Willy]

One of the last comments I heard from a patron.....play something I can get laid to!

Play some Rob Zombie. Stripper Metal.

I support single mom's.....

Single mom's...what?

 

[threadkiller]

Agree with a lot of what the bar owner said. Also, people just don't go out as much anymore. My son is in college and everytime I call him he's either working or "just hanging out" (probably smoking weed). Number of live bands he's been out to see in 1.5 years in school. As far as I know, Zero. He may have done it once or twice maybe. This is in Raleigh, NC where there is some live music avail. It just isn't the big thing to go out and see a good band these days. The chicks would rather be somewhere with a DJ so they can grind away to the repetitive kick drum. The guys would rather be where the chicks are grinding away. I'm not sure what's going on with the kids these days (says the middle aged geezer). I was at a restaurant last night and there was group of three teenage girls there. Were they talking, laughing, cutting up and generally interacting? No, all three were starring at their phones.

Also, agree with one of the fundamental flaws of the bar/music scene is that the "product" is the bottle, not the music. My bandmate and I have an idea for a music hall. So it's not a bar. It's not a club. It's a place where people can come in and hear good live music and have a beer and just hang out. The "product" would be the music. Music would end at midnight and all of us old farts could go home and get in bed. I know for myself, the main reason I don't go hear live music as in a full size band often is because they don't start until 1130 and play until 2:00 am. Also, don't won't to deal with all the club drama, fights etc. I think there's got to be a market for people who want to go out and hear a band and not deal with all the bullshit. Problem with this model is when you start trying to make it make sense on paper with overhead, rent, etc and try to pay the band anything reasonable you start getting into really high covers, like ticket price level covers.

 

[Chris6870]

So lets get this straight as a musician it is your job to pack this guys establishment and sell the patrons as much alcohol (at 3-4 times the price they can buy it themselves at a liquor store) and keep them entertained,dancing and drinking all night.
I don't know, the "bar" business model seems flawed to me. People are supposed to get in their cars, drive to this place and sit in this "room" and drink alcohol that is marked up 300-400 percent or more. Your supposed to sit there and do what? Watch the game? Enjoy the awesome atmosphere while you drink said alcohol? Enjoy the patrons company?Then you need to get back in your car several hours later and navigate your way home without crashing,killing someone or getting a DUI. If you presented that business plan to anyone they would laugh you out of the room.
The only reason I'm going to a bar (it has to be smoke free) is to see a good band. While I'm there I may buy a few beers. I see this guys point but It's not the bands job to make his business successful.They are hired entertainment.Nothing more nothing less. IF I want to drink I have some friends over and hit the liquor store and have a party.

 

[Ventura]

I play prog and this guy can go fuck himself. -C

Mo likes this post.

 

[Jerome Allen]

I live in Chicago. So I hear this discussion constantly.

The bottom line : If you're starting a for-profit business of ANY kind, you need to sell a product or service that people are willing and able to pay for.

 

[LukeCurd]

I completely agree with the bar owner. But you get what you pay for. If you pay a band $400 to play for 6hrs and bring all their own equipment how much quality to you expect? A decent bar will go thru 10k in booze in a night. Bands that he is describing that are professional cost $3000 a night for in town gigs and $4500 for driving within a few states. It is really up to him to invest the money he thinks his bar is worth.

When it comes to band looking like shit, he is right. Wearing blue jeans and a t shirt is not rock n roll. You looked like a department store catalog or your mom or wife dressed you. Chick's don't like slobs and if you wanna get laid be better dressed than any other dudes in the bar.

Just sayin. If you want to play for fun, keep jamming with your friends. If you wanna make money, you must whore yourself just like any other job out there. Sad but true.

PS if your write music people like, then you can tour on that and fuck the bar owners.

 

[spirit7]

I play prog and this guy can go fuck himself. -C

Mo likes this post.

C approves of Mo's approval!

-C

 

[rupe]

It seems many people are losing sight of why the bar/club exists in the first place...in the vast majority of cases, it sure as hell isn't to give you a place to display your artistry. He's there to make a profit...if your band isn't doing anything to add to his bottom line, why would he have you play there? It's business, plain and simple.

Is this good for music? Hell no...unless the artist can find a way to bridge the gap between their vision and the venue's bottom line. Some do it while remaining true to themselves, some do it by selling out, most don't do it and either never go anywhere or a rare few manage to find those rare few clubs/venues that actually do promote true artistry and have found that they can still profit from that niche. Places like Pete mentioned sound great, but exist primarily in fantasy land...Baltimore is fortunate to have such a venue.

 

[LukeCurd]

It seems many people are losing sight of why the bar/club exists in the first place...in the vast majority of cases, it sure as hell isn't to give you a place to display your artistry. He's there to make a profit...if your band isn't doing anything to add to his bottom line, why would he have you play there? It's business, plain and simple.

Is this good for music? Hell no...unless the artist can find a way to bridge the gap between their vision and the venue's bottom line. Some do it while remaining true to themselves, some do it by selling out, most don't do it and either never go anywhere or a rare few manage to find those rare few clubs/venues that actually do promote true artistry and have found that they can still profit from that niche. Places like Pete mentioned sound great, but exist primarily in fantasy land...Baltimore is fortunate to have such a venue.

If you wan't to see art, go to a Blue or Jazz festival or club. Go the the theater etc.

Local down the street Bar's are a place to wind down from the week, cut loose, yell a bit. Drink your bosses bullshit away etc. They normally draw their own crowd of 20-100 people. Snacks, Pool tables, TV's and Dart boards is what I have seen in the bars I have been in my life. However, with less people spending money or the bar owner want's to make more money what shall he do? Hire a form of entertainment that will draw in more folks that wouldn't normally come to that bar.

Demographics make a big impact. I know most chicks from 21-40 love to dance with their girlfriends and get drunk and sing. Enter DJ and Karaoke.

Music Venues big and small have no draw of their own. Their only purpose is to serve customers that wan't to hear live music. The type of music played is completely free market. If the music sucks, nobody shows except for friends of the bands. If the band has a fan base and can draw 150 people, then the band gets a couple bucks and the owner is happy. right?WRONG!!!

If you go to a show in Vegas or in New York your pretty much guaranteed to have a good time. Why? Because they don't hire bum's off the street just trying to get a few min's of the spot light so their friends can see them pretend to be rock stars.

 

[Badronald]

Wearing blue jeans and a t shirt is not rock n roll.

Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with that.

99% of the tools I see in clubs wearing "fancy shirts" while playing on stage look anything but rock n roll.

 

[rupe]

Wearing blue jeans and a t shirt is not rock n roll.

Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with that.

99% of the tools I see in clubs wearing "fancy shirts" while playing on stage look anything but rock n roll.

I can go either way on that...I've been part of jeans and t-shirt bands (still am actually) and I've been in bands that dressed up, going clear back to the spandex days of the 80's. I do think there is something to be said for "looking" like a band...it's kind of lame when you can't tell the band members from anybody else in the club until they hit the stage (even though I'm frequently guilty of that).

 

[Woodsie]

I play in a cover band and rely on our bar gigs so, I agree with this completely.

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

This post has everything to do with money. Some guys open bars to just have cover bands or DJ. Fine...But as I read this, and have been in the industry for 20 years, it has little to do with national acts/original acts.