A mix of Marshall and Poundcake on Rhythm Clip

[Audioholic]

Never tried these two profiles together, and I like how they sound personally. All Kemper of course.


poundcake and TAF ManRock 800 for rhythm, Manrock 800 for higher parts

Amp Factory RR Bogner on the lead

 

[gibson5413]

Sounds awesome!

 

[Rogue]

Cool stuff as always. And as always, I envy your mixes.

 

[Audioholic]

Thanks for the listen. I may be going to this combination in rhythm for a little bit

 

[Audioholic]

Mix wise, I double tracked with the Poundcake profile, then double tracked again with the Marshall Profile. Higher notes were all from the marshall with some EQ and light flange, delay in areas. Rhythm guitars were panned and compressed a little, high passed. Bass was direct blended with a Two rock profile with some dirt. Drums were pretty mixed up though, Mixing clean with compressed and roomy sounds. Lead had some chorus on it. Pretty much guitar wise, apart from the EFX, it was mostly un touched from the kemper. Used OZone 4 on the master to add overall brightness, limiting, squashed the crap out of it all

 

[Rogue]

Thanks for those details. I've considering taking some of those recording classes at GC or Sam Ash. Sam Ash is not far away. I don't know what all they cover or how good they are, but I need to learn things for sure.

 

[Audioholic]

Thanks for those details. I've considering taking some of those recording classes at GC or Sam Ash. Sam Ash is not far away. I don't know what all they cover or how good they are, but I need to learn things for sure.

That might be cool!: then again it might not be being Sam Ash or GC, depending on who is teaching. Feel free to ask away any questions, not sure I will have the answer, but just in case you want to pick a fellow Rig talk mind. I still listen to some of my favorite CD's and hear how great they sound and how much more I would like to learn too.

I went to school for Audio in 1999, learned a crap ton, but not way too much useful stuff about mixing surprisingly, I think its one of those things you just have to keep doing, listening, and doing some more to get better at. It has taken me a long time to get better and I listen to my mixes even a few years ago and think they sucked!

 

[Rogue]

Hell, I don't even know where to start. I've read a little and watched some videos here and there, but there's so much more to it than my limited knowledge. I CAN hear a good mix though.

I've gotten better at finding places in the mix for instruments to sit, but it all still seems to be confined in a narrower frequency band and not pulled forward, loud, and balanced like you get. I even put something I did up in Winamp with yours playing and I can barely hear anything in mine. I get the concept of compressing and limiting, but I don't think I have a workable knowledge of it.

Do you put a compressor or limiter on individual tracks and then on top of the final mix?

Double tracking is something I don't do much of. Do you pan your double tracks hard left and right? Whenever I have done it, it always sounds best hard left and right, if not, I can get some phasing issues or something.

I think the EQ thing is my biggest frustration. Making the bass louder in the mix just makes the bass louder without really adding more bass. It just makes it louder, but not fuller or bigger. I know that makes no sense, but that's the only way I can describe. I struggle with getting some nice highs too. Similarly in the way with the lows...getting more in there just makes it treblier, but not expanding their presence. Hard to describe this stuff.

So you put a master EQ on the master? I haven't really tried that. Perhaps that helps? I put a compressor on it, but sometimes it makes it fade in and out and makes it woofy sounding. Again, I don't have a good working knowledge of compressing a mix.

But yeah, I'm sure even with tons of knowledge, there is no substitute for sitting down and doing it. My stuff does sound better than it used to, but it's still not "quality" yet. It's a slow process, it seems.

Any tidbits would be greatly appreciated. I know why those guys get paid the big bucks though. It's a science and it's an art.

 

[Audioholic]

Hell, I don't even know where to start. I've read a little and watched some videos here and there, but there's so much more to it than my limited knowledge. I CAN hear a good mix though.

I've gotten better at finding places in the mix for instruments to sit, but it all still seems to be confined in a narrower frequency band and not pulled forward, loud, and balanced like you get. I even put something I did up in Winamp with yours playing and I can barely hear anything in mine. I get the concept of compressing and limiting, but I don't think I have a workable knowledge of it.

Do you put a compressor or limiter on individual tracks and then on top of the final mix?

I do some compression on individual tracks. I often at least double track rhythm, sometimes the higher melodic parts, then create an aux track, to where I send all same parts to, and act like a master fader. I then often use lighter compression, nothing super substantial, I compress Bass a little more as that can not have the punch it needs when tracking my bass. I try to find sounds that don't need a lot of help in the mix, and often use efx to help bring out a sound or part, or just make it sound more synthy so to speak. I do the same to all my drum parts, create an aux, send all drums to that aux and compress just a bit and any eq help, once again if I find myself using dramatic eq to make it sound GOOD, then I need to find other sounds from the start, sometimes what works together one day, won't for some reason another.

Double tracking is something I don't do much of. Do you pan your double tracks hard left and right? Whenever I have done it, it always sounds best hard left and right, if not, I can get some phasing issues or something.

Yes I pretty much hard pan, track in mono. I have good results with using the SAME amp, just on one side, slightly change the eq and lower the gain, or increase, just to add some slight variation. Or Else I find two sounds that will mesh well together, if they sound decent in mono, they should sound good panned out too. I sometimes have to help my performance by sliding a small part here and there to get it to sound tight, double tracking, its important to be pretty close to the other track, though some slight variation CAN actually help make it sound bigger. There will probably always be some phasing, but the overall result CAN be much bigger and pleasing then single tracking

I think the EQ thing is my biggest frustration. Making the bass louder in the mix just makes the bass louder without really adding more bass. It just makes it louder, but not fuller or bigger. I know that makes no sense, but that's the only way I can describe. I struggle with getting some nice highs too. Similarly in the way with the lows...getting more in there just makes it treblier, but not expanding their presence. Hard to describe this stuff.

Bass is the thing I struggle with most. I have had to get a better bass, nothing extravagant, but a decent bass guitar, and that helped it sound good and punchier from the start. I often like to combine a direct Bass sound, with something that has some grit to it, helps the bass be more noticable I guess. So I often track direct, and an amp sound mixed in. I sometimes have to use a multiband compressor on the bass to get it to even out so to speak. I find that if I clear the way more for the bass, rolling off some low end from other instruments, it helps the bass have a place to sit. There are others who's bass sounds I envy for sure. As far as nice highs, the quality of EQ can really help on pleasing quality of highs. Once again, if you start with good sounds, it will be much much easier to get to sound better overall, and sometimes what sounds good by itself will get lost in the mix. I try not to use WAY to much EQ, cause I always add some overall top end on the master, just to help it all come together so to speak. Sometimes I roll off highs on guitar parts that are starting to get harsh

So you put a master EQ on the master? I haven't really tried that. Perhaps that helps? I put a compressor on it, but sometimes it makes it fade in and out and makes it woofy sounding. Again, I don't have a good working knowledge of compressing a mix.

YES! I add some extra overall EQ on the master, as well as limit the crap out of it, in ozone, I sometimes use its harmonic thing, and multiband compressor, all just a little to help, but getting things loud DEF has to be done on the master. I often do my final little adjustments after I have the master processing going. If I was sending my stuff to a mastering house, I would use limiting and even eq more limited then I do, but since its just me most of the time, I squash the crap out of it Using tooo much limiting or compression gives that pumping and breathing sound. So either back off the dynamic processing, or find a slower attack time, or faster release time. I tend to use a pretty fast release time when limiting on the master, I try to keep the main overal limiting not much over 5 DB though, with some peaks hitting hotter. Some mastering engineers are really really good at polishing stuff off, and that is the big difference on some of this stuff.

But yeah, I'm sure even with tons of knowledge, there is no substitute for sitting down and doing it. My stuff does sound better than it used to, but it's still not "quality" yet. It's a slow process, it seems.

Any tidbits would be greatly appreciated. I know why those guys get paid the big bucks though. It's a science and it's an art.

Its weird how sometimes things just come together, and other times I find myself fighting things more. Composition really can play a big part, not overlapping to many competing sonic space instruments and notes I guess, who knows. Sometimes its just luck. ha. hope some of this helps

 

[Rogue]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to touch on some of those things. It's a help and I'll experiment with some of those ideas and see what happens.

I have a little cheapy bass and I'm sure that's a big part of the problem, but it feel like it's a mixing thing to do. It just seems hard to get everything loud, without something stepping all over other things or being too loud but still not big enough.

Any good reads on compression and how to approach settings to achieve certain results?

 

[Audioholic]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to touch on some of those things. It's a help and I'll experiment with some of those ideas and see what happens.

I have a little cheapy bass and I'm sure that's a big part of the problem, but it feel like it's a mixing thing to do. It just seems hard to get everything loud, without something stepping all over other things or being too loud but still not big enough.

Any good reads on compression and how to approach settings to achieve certain results?

I spend time volume graphing tracks if need be, basically going through them, and if need to raise a little here, but lower there, I draw in volume curves. This can help make things pop where need be. I typically don't use WAY to much compression, but little bit here, and there, so help evening out the dynamics, helps when you want to get things louder on the master too. Sometimes I DO use tons of compression as an efx, but often blended in with a cleaner signal. I don't know any resources off hand to read, wish I did. sowry.

Good monitors also help to hear where things are getting muddy etc. I had a pair of KRK V series, and couldn't make much out of the lower to lower mids, they were kinda smeary so it was like I was guessing on what to do. I upgraded my monitors and can hear more clearly. A good bass will probably help too. I had one that wasn't bad before, but it often was muddy and lacked punch when I recorded it.

 

[amiller]

Yep, I like the mix on this one too!