glassjaw7
Well-known member
Right, makes perfect sense.
Zap
Active member
tjon":2b9mpnrv said:
Oh I thought you were referring to the cement one with the piezo.
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colimofsmoke
Member
blackba":hqwti2sv said:mboogman":hqwti2sv said:
Not to mention only 7 guitars used, pretty small sample size and we have no idea what they were or what pickups are in them.
Anyone who has played guitar for a while will recognize that there is variation in tone just from the same model of guitar in a given year. And also I hear plenty of differences just between my MIM strat made of poplar compared to my 2 Alder MIA strats.
I hope the person doing the study isn't going to try to ban the use of wood in guitars after his flawed research study....
Being a furniture maker, I would certainly think you would. Poplar seems like a terrible wood for a guitar. It's very soft and porous compared to hardwoods like maple, mahogany... Shit, all of them. It's also very prone to warpage.
IceMan
New member
I think you guys are missing the true point of the article. If you read the last line, the author says "I think we should be using something more rigid than wood - like carbon fiber - to build guitars". Believe it or not, there is a growing and concerted effort by many radical environmentalists to end the use of wood for things like guitars. Cutting down a tree is the ultimate sin for these folks. It started with limiting access to the more rare tonewoods, but is spreading to even plentiful woods like ash, alder, and basswood. We all know, as guitar players, that there can be magic is certain woods that creates instant tonal bliss when we here it. But if they can get some crackpot "scientists" to convince us that our ears aren't hearing anything special and it's all in our heads, then we won't get upset when Gibson has to start using MDF or carbon fiber to make their guitars. It's the classic "get an expert to tell them that reality is not reality so we can push our agenda". Just look at what the government has already done to companies like Gibson in restricting their access to certain woods. It's happening in the amp/effects realm as well with limits on materials used in electronic componants. The crazies won't be happy until we are all playing air guitar again............but...wait...won't that add to global warming??
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colimofsmoke
Member
On the other side of that, I can tell you from working in wood shops or the last 15 years that the quality of wood available is getting worse and worse, due purely to available wood. The maple we can get looks worse and worse every year because there simply aren't any old tree left. This is a fact, and its true for most woods. The rarer hardwoods get more expensive every year at wholesale because the logging companies are having a harder and harder time finding good trees to cut down that are old enough to produce good wood. And given the sentiments about this kind of stuff I've seen on this board, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get flamed for this, but... Not to mention that fact that indigenous peoples ARE losing their homes for our wood needs. Also, take a trek out through the hills in southern Oregon some time and see what strip logging has done to the formerly gorgeous landscape there. I don't know what the answer is, and I certainly wonder what the chemicals from the resin used in carbon fiber construction are doing for the net value of the environment. There is no question that MDF has a bad environmental impact, in addition to creating unsafe chemical work environments for workers at every stage, from producing it to handling it/working with it, since it contains formaldehyde. I have personally gotten very ill from working with it. For me the answer is buying used. Not trying to preach, just presenting what I know to be some unfortunate facts about the matter.
IceMan
New member
I'm inclined to believe that the degredation in quality wood you have been seeing is less about there not being any trees left, but is instead due to the fact that the government(s) are blocking off access to areas that have the trees. Our own Federal gov. has been designating more and more territory as "federal reserve land" so logging companies can't get in there to harvest good wood. And you'd be surprised to know that the largest tree-planting entity in the U.S. is not the Arbor Day foundation or U.S. Forrest Service - but the logging companies themselves. I know of few businesses who's goal it is to eliminate the product they are in business to produce. They have a vested interest to make sure we always have trees.
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colimofsmoke
Member
If the quality of trees available wasn't an issue, the logging companies wouldnt need to move into those areas. And unfortunately, it takes a good 30 years or more for most of those trees to produce usable wood. The trees the logging companies are planting simply can not grow fast enough to replace the trees they are cutting down at the rate demand requires.
garey77
Well-known member
I remember when the early Prestige guitars were like 1700-2000 dollars. I owned a very early (maybe first year) RG3120. I was young... traded two guitars; a Green Dot universe and a S540danyeo":861n6d65 said:Well I did have a $400 Ibanez that sounded better than a $2400 Suhr.
Hindsight... I probably wouldn't buy a new Suhr, even though I really like the way they look. I'll wait ten years or so and buy a good one for less than half the price... Sorry John, the guitars are killer, but they are priced so crazy.
IceMan
New member
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree a bit on this. And don't get me wrong - I believe we need to be good stewards of our resources and work to replenish what we can, but I'm 40yrs old and all I've been hearing since I was a kid in school was how the rainforests and pine forests in the U.S. were about to be wiped out and only had a few years before the massive deforestation would wreak havoc on the world and it just isn't so. I remember even being taught in school how the forests in Northern MN would be all but gone by the year 2000. (lol....everything was "by the year 2000" in those days). Guess what.....they are still there and not even close to disappearing. While I'm sure we can find some spots on the globe where it's been a problem.....it's just not the issue that it's claimed to be.
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Rogue
New member
There probably is some tonal variations to different woods, but my feeling is that it's far more important to have your individual pieces resonate well together. I don't know of a method to tell beforehand which pieces will work the best together, so it's hit and miss.
I replaced a neck on my old Kramer that I got off ebay and the thing was twice as loud and sustianed better unplugged.
I replaced a neck on my old Kramer that I got off ebay and the thing was twice as loud and sustianed better unplugged.
crankyrayhanky
Well-known member
IceMan":2tkvgxmo said:
I super Love guitars, but are you angry that we're not chopping down trees fast enough? Logic being that you were told exaggerated facts by a 3rd grade teacher so it all must be invalid
That being said, I GAS for an exotic warmouth neck on my MIM strat...somebody said necks are the majority of the tone, so maybe that will push me over the edge
IceMan
New member
crankyrayhanky":84zc6qg0 said:IceMan":84zc6qg0 said:
I super Love guitars, but are you angry that we're not chopping down trees fast enough? Logic being that you were told exaggerated facts by a 3rd grade teacher so it all must be invalid
That being said, I GAS for an exotic warmouth neck on my MIM strat...somebody said necks are the majority of the tone, so maybe that will push me over the edge
Where do I infer that I'm angry that we're not cutting down trees fast enough??? I'm just pointing out that there are people who don't want wood to be used for things like guitars and that should concern all if us guitar players. Know what? There are people out there who don't want us to eat meat too - but I'll be damnd if they're going to stop me from getting my steak/burger when I want one. Point being - sooner or later - people who don't agree with something are going to work to take it away from you and will do anything to do it - even lie or exaggerate.
crankyrayhanky
Well-known member
agreed, but logic says that cutting down trees helps make $ for a lot of people, at the expense of the future, so I'm thinking the opposite, this planet is about tapped out of resources for a bulging population. But I can hold 2 contradictory thoughts in my head, I love me some guitar wood
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colimofsmoke
Member
IceMan":3lquf5ha said:crankyrayhanky":3lquf5ha said:IceMan":3lquf5ha said:
I super Love guitars, but are you angry that we're not chopping down trees fast enough? Logic being that you were told exaggerated facts by a 3rd grade teacher so it all must be invalid
That being said, I GAS for an exotic warmouth neck on my MIM strat...somebody said necks are the majority of the tone, so maybe that will push me over the edge
Where do I infer that I'm angry that we're not cutting down trees fast enough??? I'm just pointing out that there are people who don't want wood to be used for things like guitars and that should concern all if us guitar players. Know what? There are people out there who don't want us to eat meat too - but I'll be damnd if they're going to stop me from getting my steak/burger when I want one. Point being - sooner or later - people who don't agree with something are going to work to take it away from you and will do anything to do it - even lie or exaggerate.
The converse is also true. People who want to make money will lie or downplay findings to justify the continuation of business practices that are damaging to people (see: cigarette companies, eg), the earth, the economy, etc. I'd say at this point, and for as long as I know about, the companies are winning, and nature and people are losing. The amount of land restricted against logging is tiny compared to the land on the earth that is currently being logged. I love guitars, but I'll take a guitar that has to be stained a little darker because the grain pattern isn't as pretty rather than demand that the US make all forested land available to logging. I spent 5 summers in the Umpqua river valley in southern Oregon, one of he most beautiful places I've ever been. The last year I went, they had strip logged large portions of the valley. Now where there used to be great hiking and deer, etc, etc, there is bald dirt and erosion. Yes, they replanted trees, but many of them were falling over as seedlings because of erosion from total lack of cover.
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colimofsmoke
Member
IceMan":2oox9y9k said:
Maybe not, but there are industries whose goal is to make as much money as they can before the resource they sell is gone. Eg, the oil companies. No one argues that there is a limited supply of petroleum on the earth. For reasons that are beyond me (not really), rather than shifting their business model and the energy consumption paradigm for longevity's sake (of both their business and the earth), they insist on finding every lost drop of oil and selling it at higher and higher prices. There is no question that one day, and relatively soon, the oil will be gone. Period. The companies are only concerned with next year's profit margin. Why would lumber companies, who are equally large corporations, be doing business differently? Hasn't the mortgage-motivated economic collapse taught anyone anything? It has been stated by the lending companies that they knew they were creating a false and unsustainable bubble in the economy. Why do we continue to out trust in similar companies to look out for our good, or even their own? :end rant
T
Tone Zone
Banned
New member
You must be tone deaf.danyeo":3tkkl9rl said:Well I did have a $400 Ibanez that sounded better than a $2400 Suhr.
rupe
Active member
I've built enough parts guitars to know that's a load of crap. I've gotten substantially different tone and response results by changing bodies while all other components remained the same. My Dimarzio "Earl Slick" Strat comes to mind...I swapped out a solid one-piece maple body for a two piece alder body (all else was the same) and it completely changed the tone (for the better IMO).
squank
Active member
EXACTLY.Rash":3gmr1u9g said:I would not say irrelevant, I swapped strat necks with bodies 4 times, the neck is around 65-80 percentof the sound, the neck dominates the body....
A thin poly finish vs nitro does not make a relevant difference, tried it on a warmoth body.
Mostly custom shop strats are better, probably they select the necks by knocking the wood, they also feature other trems, also important the trem and saddles look for steel, my favorite: callaham with raw vintage saddles and 5 springs.
Kai
I'm always surprised that this doesn't get discussed more. I learned the absolute truth of this when I started playing solid RW neck guitars. I've owned 15 of them (all with mahog bodies and maple caps), and every single one of them sounded incredibly similar, and VERY different from my mahogany neck guitars. As great as RW feels, it imparts a muddy low end and a top end sizzle that is tough to live with using high gain. I eventually sold every one of them.
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chenlixin
New member
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sixstringking713
New member
IceMan":17sz56wi said:
lolwut?