EXPcustom
Well-known member
I heard after 2003 all Celestion V30s are made in China...
See my post 4 down for the conclusion after a little research.
See my post 4 down for the conclusion after a little research.
liamlw
New member
Having used and owned both, they sound pretty much identical once broken in.
scottosan
Well-known member
I agree, I had 2 identical bogner cabls with USA and Chinese V30's and you can not hear the difference.liamlw":n170pdsm said:
mctallica1
Well-known member
liamlw":6k0jy1uh said:
Yup.
FWIW, I think v30's sound like crap until broken in.
Also FWIW, I will take my G12K-100's any day.
blackba
Well-known member
Most Celestions have been built in China since 2003. Except for the Alnico Blues, Golds, and heritage series.
I don't hear a difference between Chinese and UK built Celestions, although people with UK built Celestions often advertise them as that in an attempt to get more for them....
I don't hear a difference between Chinese and UK built Celestions, although people with UK built Celestions often advertise them as that in an attempt to get more for them....
EXPcustom
Well-known member
So this is what I found out and you can draw your own conclusion...
I am familiar with working with overseas manufacturing and the quality of steel is substandard to US or UK steel. Let me elaborate so everyone understands.
This is direct from Rick an employee of celestion at another site
So we have confirmation that almost all the metalwork is done in China now.
A little known fact that is the Chinese .gov does not allow the use of high quality steel such as 4130 or any steel that has a carbon content of more than 10% without certain permits which are impossible to get. The Chinese do not want a factory to all of a sudden start cranking out AK47s and then dealing with a people's revolution because they failed to regulate raw materials.
Everything that is made with stamped metal in China is usually foodgrade stainless steel which has a carbon content of like 5% tops.
In the US stamped steel products are usually made out of 1018 (18% carbon content) or 4130 chromoly (30% carbon content) which are impossible to get in China without certain permits that only the .gov arms factories have.
Bottom line is the speaker may sound close but how will they hold up over time with cheaper metal?
I have been looking for pre 2003 Mesa/Marshall cabs with vintage 30s for this very reason.
Feel free to copy and paste this post if anyone wants to refute it I am more than happy to listen because I need a contract filled for a large order of stamped metal parts and to date have not found a single Asian factory willing to get high carbon quality metals without permits.
I am familiar with working with overseas manufacturing and the quality of steel is substandard to US or UK steel. Let me elaborate so everyone understands.
This is direct from Rick an employee of celestion at another site
So we have confirmation that almost all the metalwork is done in China now.
A little known fact that is the Chinese .gov does not allow the use of high quality steel such as 4130 or any steel that has a carbon content of more than 10% without certain permits which are impossible to get. The Chinese do not want a factory to all of a sudden start cranking out AK47s and then dealing with a people's revolution because they failed to regulate raw materials.
Everything that is made with stamped metal in China is usually foodgrade stainless steel which has a carbon content of like 5% tops.
In the US stamped steel products are usually made out of 1018 (18% carbon content) or 4130 chromoly (30% carbon content) which are impossible to get in China without certain permits that only the .gov arms factories have.
Bottom line is the speaker may sound close but how will they hold up over time with cheaper metal?
I have been looking for pre 2003 Mesa/Marshall cabs with vintage 30s for this very reason.
Feel free to copy and paste this post if anyone wants to refute it I am more than happy to listen because I need a contract filled for a large order of stamped metal parts and to date have not found a single Asian factory willing to get high carbon quality metals without permits.
hunter
Active member
Dude, thanks for all that info, but don't you think this is all a bit too deep? I mean if they sound good, they sound good. Who cares if there is 10% or 40% carbon in the steel? I don't imagine they will fall apart on the metal chassis during the lifetime of the cones.
So, let's get back to playing the guitar now
hey someone posted about the G12K100s, I hear a lot about them but only in forums, they are never advertised as great by the industry. So how do they compare to V30s, 12M25s, 12H30s, T75s?
So, let's get back to playing the guitar now
hey someone posted about the G12K100s, I hear a lot about them but only in forums, they are never advertised as great by the industry. So how do they compare to V30s, 12M25s, 12H30s, T75s?
RockStarNick
Active member
Unless you're swapping the speaker on a daily basis, I think the "chinese metal" will hold up fine.
Although, this could explain why my last G12K100 arrived looking like this:
Although, this could explain why my last G12K100 arrived looking like this:
rupe
Active member
How much abuse is a speaker really going to take that you are concerned with the quality of the metal??? Tone is organic, not intellectual...people need to stop over analyzing shit like this and use their ears (obviously many of you have 
).
).
blackba
Well-known member
That interesting about the steel.
On a similar note, I noticed when I compared a Warehouse Veteran 30 with a Celestion Vintage 30 (not sure if this was UK or China made) that the Veteran 30 seemed to have thinner metal on the basket, it just didn't look as robust. I have yet to see a report of the Warehouse speaker failing due to the basket bending. So maybe the basket doesn't matter all that much, not sure.
I did find out that Celestion China plant uses a different cone on their Alnico Blues they build for Vox than the UK build Alnico Blues you get aftermarket. They don't sound the same either, according to a few people. Alot of people on TGP were pretty upset over this actually.
On a similar note, I noticed when I compared a Warehouse Veteran 30 with a Celestion Vintage 30 (not sure if this was UK or China made) that the Veteran 30 seemed to have thinner metal on the basket, it just didn't look as robust. I have yet to see a report of the Warehouse speaker failing due to the basket bending. So maybe the basket doesn't matter all that much, not sure.
I did find out that Celestion China plant uses a different cone on their Alnico Blues they build for Vox than the UK build Alnico Blues you get aftermarket. They don't sound the same either, according to a few people. Alot of people on TGP were pretty upset over this actually.
glassjaw7
Well-known member
As a side note, my 2x12 recto cab is an '04 model with UK made celestions.
A
Anonymous
Guest
hunter":1lkpurli said:Dude, thanks for all that info, but don't you think this is all a bit too deep? I mean if they sound good, they sound good. Who cares if there is 10% or 40% carbon in the steel? I don't imagine they will fall apart on the metal chassis during the lifetime of the cones.
So, let's get back to playing the guitar now
hey someone posted about the G12K100s, I hear a lot about them but only in forums, they are never advertised as great by the industry. So how do they compare to V30s, 12M25s, 12H30s, T75s?
What if your Bogner and PRS were made in China? Would you have paid the same amount for it, with the assurance that if they sound good, they sound good?
EXPcustom
Well-known member
rupe":rz28c13r said:How much abuse is a speaker really going to take that you are concerned with the quality of the metal??? Tone is organic, not intellectual...people need to stop over analyzing shit like this and use their ears (obviously many of you have
Yes it is a concer over long term use so let me explain:
the speaker being mounted in the cab for instance, the holes where the screws are may oblong and the stamped metal frame may start to warp from vibration from sound after so many years.
See in the US and UK they use 4130 or 1018 or Euro equivalent for stamped metal and this stuff is unavalaible in China. 4130 and 1018 is so strong as a sheet metal that after heat treating or just annealing it will hold its shape for a very long time even under stress. This Chinese metal not so much...
rsm
Well-known member
I agree. The Vox amps that are made in China that have the Alnico blue speakers, are all Vox/Celestion Alnico blue speakers made in China, not Celestion Alnico blues made in the UK. If you look at the prices of the Vox amps with the (Chox Chelestion = Chinese Vox Celestions) they are pretty high compared to the Chinese Wharfdale versions, yet I could get real UK made Celestion Alnico blues and replace the Wharfdales for about the same price, give or take. I did not know about the metal quality issues you point out either.
I still want a Vox with Alnico blues, but I don't know how well the Chinese versions compare to the UK versions, someone at the Vox forum says they don't and he posted clips and raised a big stink about them. Vox hasn't banned him which I think is cool, but they haven't updated their product listings to inform buyers that the Alnico blues their amps come with are not made in UK.
If they sound good, that's fine; but as a buyer I want to know what the amp I'm buying has in it, especially for key components that make the amp what it is, and worth buying for me. Amp makers need to provide full disclosure of the key components.
Read this product page, and see if you can determine where the speakers are made. Does it give you the impression you are getting real UK made Celestion Alnico blues? Being Vox, what would you assume upon reading this page?
http://www.voxamps.com/us/heritagecollection/ac30h2/
Until I saw the posts at the Vox forum, I never would have suspected these aren't UK made Celestions!
edit: I don't like it, but I also don't have a problem buying Chinese if it is worth it, and I know about it. My Bose L1 system was made in China, and I think the sound and build quality are as good as it gets. My point is, I want to know this to be an informed consumer so I know what I'm getting for my money. If I but a JMI amp instead of a Vox, I'm getting a handmade amp made in the UK with UK Celestions if I choose. That explains why the cost much more than the Vox heritage series made in China with Chinese Vox Celestion Alnico blues
I still want a Vox with Alnico blues, but I don't know how well the Chinese versions compare to the UK versions, someone at the Vox forum says they don't and he posted clips and raised a big stink about them. Vox hasn't banned him which I think is cool, but they haven't updated their product listings to inform buyers that the Alnico blues their amps come with are not made in UK.
If they sound good, that's fine; but as a buyer I want to know what the amp I'm buying has in it, especially for key components that make the amp what it is, and worth buying for me. Amp makers need to provide full disclosure of the key components.
Read this product page, and see if you can determine where the speakers are made. Does it give you the impression you are getting real UK made Celestion Alnico blues? Being Vox, what would you assume upon reading this page?
http://www.voxamps.com/us/heritagecollection/ac30h2/
Until I saw the posts at the Vox forum, I never would have suspected these aren't UK made Celestions!
edit: I don't like it, but I also don't have a problem buying Chinese if it is worth it, and I know about it. My Bose L1 system was made in China, and I think the sound and build quality are as good as it gets. My point is, I want to know this to be an informed consumer so I know what I'm getting for my money. If I but a JMI amp instead of a Vox, I'm getting a handmade amp made in the UK with UK Celestions if I choose. That explains why the cost much more than the Vox heritage series made in China with Chinese Vox Celestion Alnico blues
rupe
Active member
Thanks...good to knowEXPcustom":14316uk7 said:rupe":14316uk7 said:How much abuse is a speaker really going to take that you are concerned with the quality of the metal??? Tone is organic, not intellectual...people need to stop over analyzing shit like this and use their ears (obviously many of you have
Yes it is a concer over long term use so let me explain:
the speaker being mounted in the cab for instance, the holes where the screws are may oblong and the stamped metal frame may start to warp from vibration from sound after so many years.
See in the US and UK they use 4130 or 1018 or Euro equivalent for stamped metal and this stuff is unavalaible in China. 4130 and 1018 is so strong as a sheet metal that after heat treating or just annealing it will hold its shape for a very long time even under stress. This Chinese metal not so much...
I never would have given that much thought
liamlw
New member
I am pretty much certain all of the celestion loaded mesa cabinets are UK made still.glassjaw7":20oingj2 said:
