FourT6and2
Well-known member
the4thlast1":tti1d3ai said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
We're talking about jaguars here, not house kittehs.
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
We're talking about jaguars here, not house kittehs.
V2a
Active member
Sad that Baron Custom Amps closed up shop, and Dave removed all of his YT vids 
the4thlast1
Well-known member
FourT6and2":2g336ltg said:the4thlast1":2g336ltg said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
Hmmm, you gotta try one , it has this open raw pissed off modern rock thing going on that def growls....Another amp like that but more on the Metal side of things is the Framus Cobra, very mean sounding on Channel two. I will also add the Peavey 5150/6505 and 6505+ but I believe those were mentioned.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
the4thlast1":p8x5r51o said:FourT6and2":p8x5r51o said:the4thlast1":p8x5r51o said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
Hmmm, you gotta try one , it has this open raw pissed off modern rock thing going on that def growls....Another amp like that but more on the Metal side of things is the Framus Cobra, very mean sounding on Channel two. I will also add the Peavey 5150/6505 and 6505+ but I believe those were mentioned.
I've played all the Shivas. They don't growl. They are dark, chewy rock amps. They sound good, don't get me wrong. But they don't have that guttural, trilling, growl sound this thread is referencing.
The Framus Cobra sort of kinda maybe does if it's through the right speakers and with a detuned guitar.
the4thlast1
Well-known member
FourT6and2":2lkq7gos said:the4thlast1":2lkq7gos said:FourT6and2":2lkq7gos said:the4thlast1":2lkq7gos said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
Hmmm, you gotta try one , it has this open raw pissed off modern rock thing going on that def growls....Another amp like that but more on the Metal side of things is the Framus Cobra, very mean sounding on Channel two. I will also add the Peavey 5150/6505 and 6505+ but I believe those were mentioned.
I've played all the Shivas. They don't growl. They are dark, chewy rock amps. They sound good, don't get me wrong. But they don't have that guttural, trilling, growl sound this thread is referencing.
The Framus Cobra sort of kinda maybe does if it's through the right speakers and with a detuned guitar.
The word "Growl" is subjective..... You are starting to sound like you think you are the Final Judge on what amp growls and what amp doesnt, its pretty funny.
I remember you now you just reminded me. There was a thread about JJ preamp tubes a while back and you came in there saying how JJ tubes suck and you have decided that x y z tubes are the best ones on the planet... Judge of the world, I wanted to tell you to clean your ears out in that thread but held back to be "nice" ... I cant stand it when people think they know everything especially when most of this stuff is matter of opinion and taste.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
I agree about the Shivas being dark and chewy (like most Bogners tend to be), but they definitely do have a growl to them. To my ears the following amps have the best/most growl in different ways: Friedman Butterslax, Gower Rockmonster, Mesa/Boogie Mark IIC+ HRG, Engl Artist Edition (has a upper mid growl)
The following amps are also great but don't really growl to my ears (which I don't like), they have more smoothness to them on powerchords: Engl Invader 150, Friedman Phil X, Cameron CCV, Wizard Modern Classic (maybe the newer models are different?)
Often when I want a super growly sound I'll use my MJM Foxey Fuzz or Danecelectro French Toast Fuzz
The following amps are also great but don't really growl to my ears (which I don't like), they have more smoothness to them on powerchords: Engl Invader 150, Friedman Phil X, Cameron CCV, Wizard Modern Classic (maybe the newer models are different?)
Often when I want a super growly sound I'll use my MJM Foxey Fuzz or Danecelectro French Toast Fuzz
glassjaw7
Well-known member
There was an Einstein clip on Diezel's website back in the day. Definitely had the growl thing happening.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
the4thlast1":38qmw9p8 said:FourT6and2":38qmw9p8 said:the4thlast1":38qmw9p8 said:FourT6and2":38qmw9p8 said:the4thlast1":38qmw9p8 said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
Hmmm, you gotta try one , it has this open raw pissed off modern rock thing going on that def growls....Another amp like that but more on the Metal side of things is the Framus Cobra, very mean sounding on Channel two. I will also add the Peavey 5150/6505 and 6505+ but I believe those were mentioned.
I've played all the Shivas. They don't growl. They are dark, chewy rock amps. They sound good, don't get me wrong. But they don't have that guttural, trilling, growl sound this thread is referencing.
The Framus Cobra sort of kinda maybe does if it's through the right speakers and with a detuned guitar.
The word "Growl" is subjective..... You are starting to sound like you think you are the Final Judge on what amp growls and what amp doesnt, its pretty funny.
I remember you now you just reminded me. There was a thread about JJ preamp tubes a while back and you came in there saying how JJ tubes suck and you have decided that x y z tubes are the best ones on the planet... Judge of the world, I wanted to tell you to clean your ears out in that thread but held back to be "nice" ... I cant stand it when people think they know everything especially when most of this stuff is matter of opinion and taste.
1. I'm starting to sound like I'm the final judge? No. I am the final judge. Because I said so (context clue—I'm being facetious here. I wish I didn't have to actually explain that. But seems like you need all the help you can get).
2. I've never made any kind of generalization that all JJ tubes suck. Please go find that post and quote me. I quite like the ECC803S. You're thinking of someone else. And you're projecting. Seriously. Go find a post where I dictated that all JJ tubes suck. All of my amps currently have JJ ECC803S in one of their spots. I'm not fond of the ECC83. But the 803S is good in my book.
3. "Growl" is certainly on a sliding scale. I don't think your beloved Shiva clip sounds very "growly" COMPARED TO THE OTHER CLIPS POSTED IN THIS THREAD. There. Happy? Probably not. You seem like a pretty angry individual at the moment. Others have also offered up their idea on what "growl" is. And I think most would agree it's something along the lines of possessing some sort of "trilling" and "guttural" quality. You know, like a "growl" you'd hear from an animal. A "trill" is not subjective. It has a specific meaning and specific sound.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
braintheory":2bnzcn6x said:
I don't hear it. And as I already declared, I'm the fucking king of growl 'round these parts.
(just in case someone else decides to freak out, I'm joking around here).Never heard the Butterslax, Rockmonseter, or Engl. Post up some clips so I can pass judgement appropriately.
How dare you say that with such declaration and finality! Watch out, the4thlast1 is gonna get angry and throw another tantrum. In the future, please put an "IMHO" before each and every sentence.
But yeah, I think the CCV has some good growl in Mark's clips. I owned one and couldn't get that kind of raw grinding sound from it though.
B
braintheory
Well-known member
Maybe the one in his clip was made differently since I hear some CCV's sound different than others. I only tried PsychoDave's CCV last year and it was the complete opposite of raw and grinding. The powerchords were smooth, compressed and did not growl but it had possibly the best lead tone I ever heard, so maybe it was a trade off. I then tried his Mark III Coliseum Red Stripe that I think was modded to either C+ or C++ specs (can't remember exactly), but it sounded WAY WAY more raw, aggressive and growly, and more open. I felt it obliterated the CCV for everything but playing leads. I still though need to get a CCV one day just for that lead tone. It's one of those amps that makes you sound like a much better player than you are.FourT6and2":2fkvkmfh said:
G
gtr31
Well-known member
glassjaw7":8s2v5cve said:
Yes I find Diezel does it
There was a clip of the Einstein on ch 1 mega crunch done
By an old HCAF member JB he had it boosted to I believe
It was a cover of Ozzy Sato he did it through several amps
But the Diezel clip was about the meanest snarl I had ever heard
It was really noticeable on the breakdown right before and after the lead
And the long ringing chords
Of all the clips I've heard over the years that was on of my favs
To my ears the Peters amps have a similar thing going on in the GNL Gryphon maybe FSM
When I listen to Firejacks clips I hear it
I also agree drop D and lower tuning with bring it out easier
the4thlast1
Well-known member
FourT6and2":1y8qjgds said:the4thlast1":1y8qjgds said:FourT6and2":1y8qjgds said:the4thlast1":1y8qjgds said:FourT6and2":1y8qjgds said:the4thlast1":1y8qjgds said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
Hmmm, you gotta try one , it has this open raw pissed off modern rock thing going on that def growls....Another amp like that but more on the Metal side of things is the Framus Cobra, very mean sounding on Channel two. I will also add the Peavey 5150/6505 and 6505+ but I believe those were mentioned.
I've played all the Shivas. They don't growl. They are dark, chewy rock amps. They sound good, don't get me wrong. But they don't have that guttural, trilling, growl sound this thread is referencing.
The Framus Cobra sort of kinda maybe does if it's through the right speakers and with a detuned guitar.
The word "Growl" is subjective..... You are starting to sound like you think you are the Final Judge on what amp growls and what amp doesnt, its pretty funny.
I remember you now you just reminded me. There was a thread about JJ preamp tubes a while back and you came in there saying how JJ tubes suck and you have decided that x y z tubes are the best ones on the planet... Judge of the world, I wanted to tell you to clean your ears out in that thread but held back to be "nice" ... I cant stand it when people think they know everything especially when most of this stuff is matter of opinion and taste.
1. I'm starting to sound like I'm the final judge? No. I am the final judge. Because I said so (context clue—I'm being facetious here. I wish I didn't have to actually explain that. But seems like you need all the help you can get).
2. I've never made any kind of generalization that all JJ tubes suck. Please go find that post and quote me. I quite like the ECC803S. You're thinking of someone else. And you're projecting. Seriously. Go find a post where I dictated that all JJ tubes suck. All of my amps currently have JJ ECC803S in one of their spots. I'm not fond of the ECC83. But the 803S is good in my book.
3. "Growl" is certainly on a sliding scale. I don't think your beloved Shiva clip sounds very "growly" COMPARED TO THE OTHER CLIPS POSTED IN THIS THREAD. There. Happy? Probably not. You seem like a pretty angry individual at the moment. Others have also offered up their idea on what "growl" is. And I think most would agree it's something along the lines of possessing some sort of "trilling" and "guttural" quality. You know, like a "growl" you'd hear from an animal. A "trill" is not subjective. It has a specific meaning and specific sound.
Yes you are the guy haha......
Yes you said the ECC83's "suck" and my response is you need to have your ears checked. Or its possible you havent owned many American voiced amps like Soldano/Mesa/Fender/Peavey. IMO as well as many others those amps sound great with ECC83's but I must be wrong because you said so.
As a few guys in this thread mentioned which I agree with is that when I think of "Growl" I think of a raw , open , aggressive type of tone..Someone else might consider "growl" to have other atributes . Thats why to start this thread is overly subjective ......My whole point was that you just sound like a tool when you start shooting down other peoples suggestions about what amp "growls" like youre the expert on anything , def not tubes thats for sure.
Sorry yeah I sound angry but I get tired of holding back on guys like you.
S
sjk
Banned
New member
the4thlast1":clay7aa5 said:FourT6and2":clay7aa5 said:the4thlast1":clay7aa5 said:FourT6and2":clay7aa5 said:the4thlast1":clay7aa5 said:FourT6and2":clay7aa5 said:the4thlast1":clay7aa5 said:
Meh. Not so much. Maybe a bit of baby growl.
Hmmm, you gotta try one , it has this open raw pissed off modern rock thing going on that def growls....Another amp like that but more on the Metal side of things is the Framus Cobra, very mean sounding on Channel two. I will also add the Peavey 5150/6505 and 6505+ but I believe those were mentioned.
I've played all the Shivas. They don't growl. They are dark, chewy rock amps. They sound good, don't get me wrong. But they don't have that guttural, trilling, growl sound this thread is referencing.
The Framus Cobra sort of kinda maybe does if it's through the right speakers and with a detuned guitar.
The word "Growl" is subjective..... You are starting to sound like you think you are the Final Judge on what amp growls and what amp doesnt, its pretty funny.
I remember you now you just reminded me. There was a thread about JJ preamp tubes a while back and you came in there saying how JJ tubes suck and you have decided that x y z tubes are the best ones on the planet... Judge of the world, I wanted to tell you to clean your ears out in that thread but held back to be "nice" ... I cant stand it when people think they know everything especially when most of this stuff is matter of opinion and taste.
1. I'm starting to sound like I'm the final judge? No. I am the final judge. Because I said so (context clue—I'm being facetious here. I wish I didn't have to actually explain that. But seems like you need all the help you can get).
2. I've never made any kind of generalization that all JJ tubes suck. Please go find that post and quote me. I quite like the ECC803S. You're thinking of someone else. And you're projecting. Seriously. Go find a post where I dictated that all JJ tubes suck. All of my amps currently have JJ ECC803S in one of their spots. I'm not fond of the ECC83. But the 803S is good in my book.
3. "Growl" is certainly on a sliding scale. I don't think your beloved Shiva clip sounds very "growly" COMPARED TO THE OTHER CLIPS POSTED IN THIS THREAD. There. Happy? Probably not. You seem like a pretty angry individual at the moment. Others have also offered up their idea on what "growl" is. And I think most would agree it's something along the lines of possessing some sort of "trilling" and "guttural" quality. You know, like a "growl" you'd hear from an animal. A "trill" is not subjective. It has a specific meaning and specific sound.
Yes you are the guy haha......
Yes you said the ECC83's "suck" and my response is you need to have your ears checked. Or its possible you havent owned many American voiced amps like Soldano/Mesa/Fender/Peavey. IMO as well as many others those amps sound great with ECC83's but I must be wrong because you said so.
As a few guys in this thread mentioned which I agree with is that when I think of "Growl" I think of a raw , open , aggressive type of tone..Someone else might consider "growl" to have other atributes . Thats why to start this thread is overly subjective ......My whole point was that you just sound like a tool when you start shooting down other peoples suggestions about what amp "growls" like youre the expert on anything , def not tubes thats for sure.
Sorry yeah I sound angry but I get tired of holding back on guys like you.
Well said! Intended or not some guys just have an arrogance to there words and thoughts behind a keyboard when posting on internet forums.
V2a
Active member
minor detour to BARK. A long time ago, I was quite impressed by a few bands/guitarists for tone that I considered to 'bark'. Slayer had it, Jake E Lee had it on some songs (Badlands 'Fire and Rain' cover, for example). And back in the early 90s I thought the VHT Pitbull barked. Nowadays, I think it's quite simple to get an amp to bark: give it some gain and reduce the bass early on in the preamp. And smooth out the fizzy highs.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
the4thlast1":8d3t7qkg said:
Yeah, I do think the JJ ECC83 tubes suck. I prefer the ECC803 if we're talking JJ. So fucking what. How is my saying that being any less or more arrogant than you saying, "you need to get your ears checked"? You are such a hypocrite. Your words hold no weight: You must not have owned many British voiced amps like Marshall, Bogner, Fortin, Peters. IMO as well as many others those amps sound awful with ECC83 but I must be wrong because you said so.
See...
It goes both ways. Your own words are just as arrogant as mine.
Either we are both tools or neither of us are. Your choice.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
sjk":1kwu7ljz said:
Where are you from? And how old are you? Serious questions.
Where I'm from, people state their opinion plainly and assertively. And if you disagree with someone, you state your case plainly and assertively. You don't dance around a topic or mince words. That's how you show respect. You don't treat people like children and coddle them in verbosity. I now live in California, where you have to walk on egg shells, lest you offend everyone. You have to phrase every statement as a question and up-talk at the end of a sentence like a valley girl or else people's delicate sensibilities get offended. I really don't care if you're offended or if I come off as arrogant. I truly don't. I'm not going to lose sleep at night because your love for JJ ECC83 tubes knows no bounds. And me saying I don't like them offends you. Does that make me a tool and arrogant? Maybe. But it also makes you a delicate snowflake that can't make it through life without a participation trophy. And understand I'm talking about the Royal You, here. Not you specifically.
And just like how the other guys says, "Sorry yeah I sound angry but I get tired of holding back on guys like you.," I get tired of holding back on guys like him—who obfuscate every little conversation with feelings and getting offended. You're offended. So what. And?
FourT6and2
Well-known member
V2a":3b7e7xl7 said:
Yeah, I definitely agree. VHT amps have a "bark" to them. It's a sort of dry, hollow quality in the mids, with rolled off highs and no sizzle.
Oh, shit. Sorry. I should have said IMHO like 5 times in that sentence. I hope you weren't offended.
D
DET1973
New member
I think my Soldano Avenger has both Growl & Bark but to my ears it's in the realm of a Pissed off JCM 800 (more gain) but also more low end & more low mids. I use Les Pauls with EMGs 81/60 & sometimes boost it with a Maxon OD-9 Tuned down to D standard & it is angy/pissed but clear.
Anyone else play one and can 2nd what i'm saying?
Anyone else play one and can 2nd what i'm saying?
the4thlast1
Well-known member
FourT6and2":2mn4fmuj said:
You dont give up do you...
I did step on to your side of the world by saying you should get your ears checked and I apologize for that but It was building up and you are not the only one on here who brought me to that point so it may not be deserved to single you out. I suggest that in the future remember this is a forum about tone that in itself is extremely subjective and as much as we might think what we like is the best or what think is right is only a matter of opinion in most cases. It seems to me from what you said above you like to take the arrogant approach to things and people who dont are sissy so I doubt any of what Im saying here will impact you... Personally I find people who are arrogant a lot of times are misinformed or uneducated on a topic but will fight tooth and nail to prove they are right even when they might know very little on the subject at hand.
AND I agree with you that British voiced amps dont sound great with JJ preamp tubes. In general those types of amps sound really good to me with Chinese preamp tubes. My whole point is I wouldnt say either one is bad , just preferences ya know ? Thats what its all about.
Dopethrone
Active member
V2a":e9yozxau said:
Excellent advice!! That's exactly what i did when i modded my 5150.
I found the perfect combination to revoice my 5150 was to generally reduce the value of the coupling caps between the first few stages (theyre tweaked to exactly the sound i wanted), then add the bass in later by increasing the value of the cathode caps, and some other tweaks i found that i liked.
I could be technically wrong on all of it, but doing this accentuated to my ears, the low mid interplay of the tone and the actual gain by introducing lower mids and bass back into the circuit a bit later. my 5150 sounds much clearer and bigger, and still has plenty of low end and growls like no other amp i've played.
and i was able to ATTENUATE a big part of the "honk" that the 5150 is famous for, but still retain it, just to tolerable levels to my ears and it still cuts through enough to be heard.