Amp observations at a Metal Festival

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Fusionbear

Fusionbear

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Had the opportunity to attend the Gates of Metal festival this last weekend and was guitar tech for Sin Quirin of Siglos (formerly with Ministry).

The venue had a great backline of JCM800's and 2205's plus 1960A 4x12 cabs for the guitarists.

Some of the bands flew in so I saw a variety of methods used to take advantage of the backline. Some guys just goosed the JCM800'S with the usual suspects and sounded great. I saw a couple of Tech 21 PL1's as well.

What surprised me was how many were using digital solutions. It used to be that digital was rare, but now it was about 40%! That's a pretty significant increase in my observations.

The most used one was the Kemper powered toaster, then Helix, Headrush, last AxeFX3. I saw two Line 6 Alchemists, I didn't see anyone using a Quad Cortex at this gig.... Siglos used Kemper for guitars and Headrush for bass.

But the real surprise for me was listening at the FOH. Tube amps ruled.... they really did. All the digital and direct analog rigs sounded a little off and didn't feel quite right at the FOH. The high end was kind of soft and fuzzy, a little indistinct.... Most people wouldn't notice, but I sure did....

The amps I saw and heard were Dual Recs, 5150's, Mesa MKIV, and a Deizel Herbert.

To my ears, the amp that ruled these two days was the Deizel Herbert. It sounded massive and open, without crowding the soundscape. It never sounded bloated either. I was actually shocked at how good it sounded. The player of this amp plugged into the backline 4x12 and was micd with a SM57. Everytime he played open chords or chugged, I could feel the attack. It never sounded buzzy or fuzzy. He wasn't the best lead player, but when he played leads, the tone was very, very good. He was tuned to drop C#. Anyway, I had a blast, I'm tired today.... whew!

Bottom line for me: Real amps still rule, but the digital solutions are still awesome overall. Very convenient and useful....

Now I'm jonesing for a Herbert......lol...
 
Fusionbear said:
Had the opportunity to attend the Gates of Metal festival this last weekend and was guitar tech for Sin Quirin of Siglos (formerly with Ministry).

The venue had a great backline of JCM800's and 2205's plus 1960A 4x12 cabs for the guitarists.

Some of the bands flew in so I saw a variety of methods used to take advantage of the backline. Some guys just goosed the JCM800'S with the usual suspects and sounded great. I saw a couple of Tech 21 PL1's as well.

What surprised me was how many were using digital solutions. It used to be that digital was rare, but now it was about 40%! That's a pretty significant increase in my observations.

The most used one was the Kemper powered toaster, then Helix, Headrush, last AxeFX3. I saw two Line 6 Alchemists, I didn't see anyone using a Quad Cortex at this gig.... Siglos used Kemper for guitars and Headrush for bass.

But the real surprise for me was listening at the FOH. Tube amps ruled.... they really did. All the digital and direct analog rigs sounded and didn't feel quite right at the FOH. The high end was kind of soft and fuzzy, a little indistinct.... Most people wouldn't notice, but I sure did....

The amps I saw and heard were Dual Recs, 5150's, Mesa MKIV, and a Deizel Herbert.

To my ears, the amp that ruled these two days was the Deizel Herbert. It sounded massive and open, without crowding the soundscape. It never sounded bloated either. I was actually shocked at how good it sounded. The player of this amp plugged into the backline 4x12 and was micd with a SM57. Everytime he played open chords or chugged, I could feel the attack. It never sounded buzzy or fuzzy. He wasn't the best lead player, but when he played leads, the tone was very, very good. He was tuned to drop C#. Anyway, I had a blast, I'm tired today.... whew!

Bottom line for me: Real amps still rule, but the digital solutions are still awesome overall. Very convenient and useful....

Now I'm jonesing for a Herbert......lol...
Click to expand...
Herbert was s still a beast . I love mine . One of 3 amps I’d never sell
 
I’ve only heard a herbert live once and it was dialed in wrong with the mid scoop and also FOH was deaf that night. It was awful but all user error.

I’d like to play one someday.
 
glpg80 said:
I’ve only heard a herbert live once and it was dialed in wrong with the mid scoop and also FOH was deaf that night. It was awful but all user error.

I’d like to play one someday.
Click to expand...
When set up right they can be tight and full spectrum f frequencies . Hermanson and Wizard are my other amps I live like it
 
Fusionbear said:
Had the opportunity to attend the Gates of Metal festival this last weekend and was guitar tech for Sin Quirin of Siglos (formerly with Ministry).

The venue had a great backline of JCM800's and 2205's plus 1960A 4x12 cabs for the guitarists.

Some of the bands flew in so I saw a variety of methods used to take advantage of the backline. Some guys just goosed the JCM800'S with the usual suspects and sounded great. I saw a couple of Tech 21 PL1's as well.

What surprised me was how many were using digital solutions. It used to be that digital was rare, but now it was about 40%! That's a pretty significant increase in my observations.

The most used one was the Kemper powered toaster, then Helix, Headrush, last AxeFX3. I saw two Line 6 Alchemists, I didn't see anyone using a Quad Cortex at this gig.... Siglos used Kemper for guitars and Headrush for bass.

But the real surprise for me was listening at the FOH. Tube amps ruled.... they really did. All the digital and direct analog rigs sounded a little off and didn't feel quite right at the FOH. The high end was kind of soft and fuzzy, a little indistinct.... Most people wouldn't notice, but I sure did....

The amps I saw and heard were Dual Recs, 5150's, Mesa MKIV, and a Deizel Herbert.

To my ears, the amp that ruled these two days was the Deizel Herbert. It sounded massive and open, without crowding the soundscape. It never sounded bloated either. I was actually shocked at how good it sounded. The player of this amp plugged into the backline 4x12 and was micd with a SM57. Everytime he played open chords or chugged, I could feel the attack. It never sounded buzzy or fuzzy. He wasn't the best lead player, but when he played leads, the tone was very, very good. He was tuned to drop C#. Anyway, I had a blast, I'm tired today.... whew!

Bottom line for me: Real amps still rule, but the digital solutions are still awesome overall. Very convenient and useful....

Now I'm jonesing for a Herbert......lol...
Click to expand...
Thanks for speaking the truth. Hopefully you won’t get attacked for it. I enjoyed my Herbert for a couple yrs, but ultimately I thought it was too heavy and had far too many tubes.
 
Fusionbear said:
Had the opportunity to attend the Gates of Metal festival this last weekend and was guitar tech for Sin Quirin of Siglos (formerly with Ministry).

The venue had a great backline of JCM800's and 2205's plus 1960A 4x12 cabs for the guitarists.

Some of the bands flew in so I saw a variety of methods used to take advantage of the backline. Some guys just goosed the JCM800'S with the usual suspects and sounded great. I saw a couple of Tech 21 PL1's as well.

What surprised me was how many were using digital solutions. It used to be that digital was rare, but now it was about 40%! That's a pretty significant increase in my observations.

The most used one was the Kemper powered toaster, then Helix, Headrush, last AxeFX3. I saw two Line 6 Alchemists, I didn't see anyone using a Quad Cortex at this gig.... Siglos used Kemper for guitars and Headrush for bass.

But the real surprise for me was listening at the FOH. Tube amps ruled.... they really did. All the digital and direct analog rigs sounded a little off and didn't feel quite right at the FOH. The high end was kind of soft and fuzzy, a little indistinct.... Most people wouldn't notice, but I sure did....

The amps I saw and heard were Dual Recs, 5150's, Mesa MKIV, and a Deizel Herbert.

To my ears, the amp that ruled these two days was the Deizel Herbert. It sounded massive and open, without crowding the soundscape. It never sounded bloated either. I was actually shocked at how good it sounded. The player of this amp plugged into the backline 4x12 and was micd with a SM57. Everytime he played open chords or chugged, I could feel the attack. It never sounded buzzy or fuzzy. He wasn't the best lead player, but when he played leads, the tone was very, very good. He was tuned to drop C#. Anyway, I had a blast, I'm tired today.... whew!

Bottom line for me: Real amps still rule, but the digital solutions are still awesome overall. Very convenient and useful....

Now I'm jonesing for a Herbert......lol...
Click to expand...
That was a good read :yes:
 
Gotta be honest - the fest I teched at for 20 years... at FOH if the guy was good - it was REALLLLLY hard, if not impossible, to tell.
Over the years I saw everything from Behringer V-AMPS, VOX modelers, early Line 6, AXEFX, Helix, Kemper, Vettas.. then the usual Marshalls, 5150, Rectos, ENGL's...
On stage it was obvious - volume, how the cabinets moved air, etc..
Yes = some bands sounded amazing, bigger etc... but 99.99% of the fans (and most musicians) would not notice the difference at FOH.
Just my 0.02.
 
Wayniac3 said:
Gotta be honest - the fest I teched at for 20 years... at FOH if the guy was good - it was REALLLLLY hard, if not impossible, to tell.
Over the years I saw everything from Behringer V-AMPS, VOX modelers, early Line 6, AXEFX, Helix, Kemper, Vettas.. then the usual Marshalls, 5150, Rectos, ENGL's...
On stage it was obvious - volume, how the cabinets moved air, etc..
Yes = some bands sounded amazing, bigger etc... but 99.99% of the fans (and most musicians) would not notice the difference at FOH.
Just my 0.02.
Click to expand...
This. ^^. Most fans don’t know..
When I am playing live, in my ear, I’m the only one who counts at the end of the night if I was good or not. Tone is included in this “good” quality. You hear it and fight all night to make it right… or you play better because it’s on… just my extra penny op-ed.
 
Wayniac3 said:
Gotta be honest - the fest I teched at for 20 years... at FOH if the guy was good - it was REALLLLLY hard, if not impossible, to tell.
Over the years I saw everything from Behringer V-AMPS, VOX modelers, early Line 6, AXEFX, Helix, Kemper, Vettas.. then the usual Marshalls, 5150, Rectos, ENGL's...
On stage it was obvious - volume, how the cabinets moved air, etc..
Yes = some bands sounded amazing, bigger etc... but 99.99% of the fans (and most musicians) would not notice the difference at FOH.
Just my 0.02.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree with you that 99.9% of the audience won't hear or care about the difference. I'm cursed to be that .1% :cry:
 
The first time I heard a digital rig live, I was impressed. Sounded huge; and I couldn't tell. But every show since, that has used a digital rig, it just didn't sound real; something was off and I didn't care for it. I wonder if the first show used tube power amps?
That might explain the difference.
 
Depending on the bands/backline/room, a lineup with a mix of amps and modelers can be great or a bit of a letdown.

As much of a modeling fan as I am, there’s no denying the lack of oomph coming off a stage when a whole band is going direct and if that band is sandwiched between bands with amps/cabs onstage it’s going to be noticed unless you’re standing at the FOH desk.

Last year I saw In Flames with a couple other bands in a 400-500 cap venue, the middle band was all on modelers, sounded GREAT at FOH but there was a hard line in the audience you could cross where you’re behind the beam of the PA speakers and all the meat just dropped out/guitars got buried. Didn’t matter where you were for the other bands, it sounded like a live show. And that’s why I’ll never play onstage without a cab unless I have to.
 
I've been through a boat load of fancy cabs, but I must say a 1960AV is all you need in most situations. Also in many situations it's the best anyway.

That being said I sold mine to fund other fancy cabs, and I want it back LOL ?‍♂️
 
So…. I can tell a difference between modeler into tube power amp into a speaker cab vs an actual head into a speaker cab. Never tried a modeler into a PA but that seems weak. Idk.
 
Just watched Dave Murray's rig rundown - AxeFX III to FOH and his in-ears; AxeFX III into Marshall EL34/100 monoblocs into Marshall 4x12 cabs on stage. The AxeFX III provides a Marshall JMP-1 patch that was matched to his JMP-1.

I still enjoy my tube amps, and if I use pedals, it's usually an EQ / noise gate, basically just straight into the amp.

That said, really enjoying my new computer / software plugin rig

Mini-PC, wireless keyboard/trackpad, audio interface; into the mixer and powered PA:

computer-audio-interface.JPG



Touchscreen monitor:

touchscreen2.JPG


Floor controls:

IMG_0394.JPG
 
Fusionbear said:
Had the opportunity to attend the Gates of Metal festival this last weekend and was guitar tech for Sin Quirin of Siglos (formerly with Ministry).

The venue had a great backline of JCM800's and 2205's plus 1960A 4x12 cabs for the guitarists.

Some of the bands flew in so I saw a variety of methods used to take advantage of the backline. Some guys just goosed the JCM800'S with the usual suspects and sounded great. I saw a couple of Tech 21 PL1's as well.

What surprised me was how many were using digital solutions. It used to be that digital was rare, but now it was about 40%! That's a pretty significant increase in my observations.

The most used one was the Kemper powered toaster, then Helix, Headrush, last AxeFX3. I saw two Line 6 Alchemists, I didn't see anyone using a Quad Cortex at this gig.... Siglos used Kemper for guitars and Headrush for bass.

But the real surprise for me was listening at the FOH. Tube amps ruled.... they really did. All the digital and direct analog rigs sounded a little off and didn't feel quite right at the FOH. The high end was kind of soft and fuzzy, a little indistinct.... Most people wouldn't notice, but I sure did....

The amps I saw and heard were Dual Recs, 5150's, Mesa MKIV, and a Deizel Herbert.

To my ears, the amp that ruled these two days was the Deizel Herbert. It sounded massive and open, without crowding the soundscape. It never sounded bloated either. I was actually shocked at how good it sounded. The player of this amp plugged into the backline 4x12 and was micd with a SM57. Everytime he played open chords or chugged, I could feel the attack. It never sounded buzzy or fuzzy. He wasn't the best lead player, but when he played leads, the tone was very, very good. He was tuned to drop C#. Anyway, I had a blast, I'm tired today.... whew!

Bottom line for me: Real amps still rule, but the digital solutions are still awesome overall. Very convenient and useful....

Now I'm jonesing for a Herbert......lol...
Click to expand...
Good observation! The new Friedman IR x will change all that. That 'off' sound you describe will never be overcome in the digital world. The IR X can get plenty heavy and has all the sound and touch feel of a tube head.

One thing I noticed seeing a modern metal drop tuning metal band open for steel panther years ago was the metal group had no mids to cut and the riffs were lost in the bass/kick drum frequencies.
 
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