Another amp? Or another cab? What would you suggest?

[nightlight]

I've been really wrestling with the idea that I should invest in more cabs instead of more amps.

First off, I don't belong to the school that says, "Two amps will sound the same through the same cab." I just don't find that's how it works, e.g. my Savage 120 will not sound like my JVM410H through the same cab. In that case, the Savage is far more compressed, and the Marshall has a more raw sound. Maybe that's the way I hear it.

I have seen the Youtube comparisons where they say, "They sound the same," but again, this is just my experience and I don't think they do. Maybe because I would seldom mic up a sound from two different amps at the same spot on a cab. I just don't think that is a real world situation.

Does it suffice for the purpose of the test? I'm not sure as well, it just seems to me that you are capturing a spot on the cab that accentuates certain frequencies. Those frequencies, however, may not be what you are aiming for, at least imho.

I like to think of a speaker and cab as having almost infinite ways for micing. So many positions, so many angles, so many mic possibilities. Because these amps have different tones, you would therefore mic up the cab at a different position when using that amp. That's just my thinking and the debate is for another thread.

That isn't to say though that an amp through a different cab won't sound different. I have three cabs, at the moment, with one more inbound. It has definitely been my experience that an amp through a different cab (even with the same speakers, but more markedly with other speakers) can sound completely different.

It's also more often than not cheaper to buy a cab than an amp, since nowadays no one seems to be able to stand the things, which means you come across bargains from time to time.

The amps I have are a VHT Sig:X, a Marshall JVM410H, an Engl Savage 120 and Fireball 100 (planning to sell the Fireball) and a PRS Archon 25.

The cabs I have are an Emperor 4x12 with Governors and Tonkers, an Orange 2x12 with UK V30s and a Mesa Boogie Thiele 1x12 with an EVM12L. The cab that is inbound is a Friedman 2x12 with V30s (Chinese ones, I think).

I'm currently evaluating a few amps and a few cabs (because GAS has gotten the better over common sense) like a Mark V, a Deliverance and an Axe FX (not an amp, but I like digital gear).

I'm also evaluating a few cabs - a Recto 2x12 and 4x12, a Port City OS 2x12 and a 4x12 with Greenbacks.

What do you think would equate maximum bang for buck, assuming you could only get one thing from those choices?

 

[DrewJD82]

The most bang for the buck- the AxeFX. There’s 269 amps in the damn thing, plus something like 1200 stock IR’s. Not to mention the effects.

I agree though, two different amps aren’t going to sound the same just because they’re coming out of the same cab. There’ll be similarities, but definitely not the same. Hell, most of us AxeFX/modeler guys usually tell others to find a select few IR’s you really dig and use those on everything instead of trying to find new ones for every amp/preset. Definitely wouldn’t be saying that if we thought they made everything sound the same.

 

[nightlight]

I don't know that I've ever heard people say two different amps sound the same due to running through the cab. I've heard that all emg equipped guitars sound the same, but never that correlation with a cabinet.

Tonnes more videos like this. I even saw similar arguments on the Kemper Amp forums.

 

[nightlight]

The most bang for the buck- the AxeFX. There’s 269 amps in the damn thing, plus something like 1200 stock IR’s. Not to mention the effects.

I agree though, two different amps aren’t going to sound the same just because they’re coming out of the same cab. There’ll be similarities, but definitely not the same. Hell, most of us AxeFX/modeler guys usually tell others to find a select few IR’s you really dig and use those on everything instead of trying to find new ones for every amp/preset. Definitely wouldn’t be saying that if we thought they made everything sound the same.

I do have a Kemper, so I'm a bit on the fence about the Axe FX. Not a fanboy though, I've genuinely never tried an Axe FX. There's a II on sale for a good price, the IIIs are as much as the amps I mentioned. The Deliverance is actually a fair bit cheaper than them all.

 

[DanTravis62]

You already have most of the sounds you would USE with a modeler covered with your amp collection.

I would get a very different sounding amp - depending on what you like, and how much gain you need to get out of it, I would snag an orange or vox based thing. That way you could cover more midgain tones.

Or, you might want a darker modern flavor to go with your more Marshall based tones. Diezel, Omega, KSR, something like that. (Edit: to me the sigX is a brighter modern sound)

Or something clean - a classic fender, hiwatt, or even a Roland jazz chorus.

If you already have a Kemper, an axe fx is literally burning money.

I personally found a few specific sounds that I like to use, and can get a wide variety of tones with, and downgraded my amp and cab collection to just a handful.

 

[ZEEGLER]

The correct answer is more of both!

 

[DrewJD82]

I do have a Kemper, so I'm a bit on the fence about the Axe FX. Not a fanboy though, I've genuinely never tried an Axe FX. There's a II on sale for a good price, the IIIs are as much as the amps I mentioned. The Deliverance is actually a fair bit cheaper than them all.

I have no problems admitting up front that I'm a Fractal fanboy, so take this with a grain of salt, but in the 27-28 years I've been playing, I've never played through a piece of gear that's brought me more satisfaction than my III. I wasn't a fanboy until I got it and really learned how to use it. I've had Dual Recs, MKIV's, a XXX, Carvin Legacy, etc, played through tube amps longer than anything else, roaring through 4x12's, but I'll take the ability to dial in whatever I can dream up over any of those!

 

[Racerxrated]

Tonnes more videos like this. I even saw similar arguments on the Kemper Amp forums.

So much wrong in this vid; don’t even know where to begin. First a Marshall(800, Plexi) will sound like ass through any V30 cab(Jubilee is one exception). While a Mesa sounds killer through it. Now, if you put 2 Mesas, a Recto and a Mark, and if you scoop the mids out of the Recto both amps will sound similar since Mesas have a distinct voice. But still differences. So I will never agree that a cab will sound the same with different amps running through it. That’s never been the case and I’ve been through 50+ amps and 30+ cabs since becoming a tone fiend 12 yrs ago.
With your collection of cabs and amps, I’d suggest a Greenback cab as that will give you another tonal option different from what you have. One amp and multiple cabs with different speakers is a cheaper and better way to go vs multiple amps imo.

 

[jabps]

I've been really wrestling with the idea that I should invest in more cabs instead of more amps.

First off, I don't belong to the school that says, "Two amps will sound the same through the same cab." I just don't find that's how it works, e.g. my Savage 120 will not sound like my JVM410H through the same cab. In that case, the Savage is far more compressed, and the Marshall has a more raw sound. Maybe that's the way I hear it.

I have seen the Youtube comparisons where they say, "They sound the same," but again, this is just my experience and I don't think they do. Maybe because I would seldom mic up a sound from two different amps at the same spot on a cab. I just don't think that is a real world situation.

Does it suffice for the purpose of the test? I'm not sure as well, it just seems to me that you are capturing a spot on the cab that accentuates certain frequencies. Those frequencies, however, may not be what you are aiming for, at least imho.

I like to think of a speaker and cab as having almost infinite ways for micing. So many positions, so many angles, so many mic possibilities. Because these amps have different tones, you would therefore mic up the cab at a different position when using that amp. That's just my thinking and the debate is for another thread.

That isn't to say though that an amp through a different cab won't sound different. I have three cabs, at the moment, with one more inbound. It has definitely been my experience that an amp through a different cab (even with the same speakers, but more markedly with other speakers) can sound completely different.

It's also more often than not cheaper to buy a cab than an amp, since nowadays no one seems to be able to stand the things, which means you come across bargains from time to time.

The amps I have are a VHT Sig:X, a Marshall JVM410H, an Engl Savage 120 and Fireball 100 (planning to sell the Fireball) and a PRS Archon 25.

The cabs I have are an Emperor 4x12 with Governors and Tonkers, an Orange 2x12 with UK V30s and a Mesa Boogie Thiele 1x12 with an EVM12L. The cab that is inbound is a Friedman 2x12 with V30s (Chinese ones, I think).

I'm currently evaluating a few amps and a few cabs (because GAS has gotten the better over common sense) like a Mark V, a Deliverance and an Axe FX (not an amp, but I like digital gear).

I'm also evaluating a few cabs - a Recto 2x12 and 4x12, a Port City OS 2x12 and a 4x12 with Greenbacks.

What do you think would equate maximum bang for buck, assuming you could only get one thing from those choices?

I'd probably go cab.

Once I find my amp, that's really it for me. That said I've been on an amp buying spree but it wasn't to replace my fav (JVM 410), it was just because I could. For me once I get my sound, I tend to stick with that and why the JVM has been my number one for a long, long time. I did track down one of my old fav amps, a SigX which was added back to the fold and bough the 50watt EVH Stealth. Great amps but after a couple hours playing, I always go back to the JVM.

So again, I'd say Cabs though, from speakers to the cab itself, lots of tonal varieties to really enhance your amp and fine tune. And it's generally cheaper lol.

 

[RaceU4her]

You definitely don’t need anymore v30s. I’d get another 2x12 with T75s and maybe another with greenbacks or something

 

[Ventura]

I've got the amps I need - and even though I've had dozens of other heads and combos pass through my zone, the same amps I started with are the same amps I love and use today - so for me, ZERO amp GAS.

But what totally opened the doors for me (cuz, like you, I kinda dig the different colors and flavors that cabs offer any specific amp) was the Captor X unit from Two Notes. Best purchase(s) in recent years - hands down. Since I got my fave amps? Now I've got access to a plethora of absolutely KILLER DynIRs - and DynIRs are, IMHO/YMMV - the best IRs out there. It was and is a game changer for me - ended up with 2 as I run stereo heads....and the virtual cabs?? It's like owning a warehouse of 1x12s/212s/412s/410s/supros/champs/pignose....endless ?

/end love-rant

 

[VESmedic]

Cab... all day... screw amps... if you have 5 or 6 killer amps like you do, cabs are the a better investment. I have 7-8 heads, and now 5 4x12s. I’ve never been as happy as I am with finding tones than with a different cab and paying close attention to detail with micing my different cabs with a single 57. Nothing comes close to this to me. Guitar players as a whole need to be more versed in critical listening, the attention to detail and minuscule movements of a mic on a cab are where the differences in tone lies in my opinion.

getting great tones At the source, without eq etc, is the foundation of great recorded tones. And if you already have the amps, it would behoove you to get a few great cabs and see the differences they make, because it can often be drastic.

for instance: I just spent a weekend with a well known producer of modern metal records. I bought an engl 4x12 off of him, because I absolutely love the tones he got with his. Loaded with 65 watt creambacks and vintage 30s. I bought an identical engl 4x-12 off of him, and had the exact same speakers put in it. Same placement etc. we spent all day micing it up. Mind you, again, a complete pro at the top of his game. Same mic positions etc, incredible Attention to detail. The results? The cabs still sounded pretty different. His had more high end attack and grind than mine, even with the same mic, Same speaker, same position, Same signal path. Was it worlds different? No, but it was incredibly obvious. Was one better or worse? Nope, just... different. The core tone was the same, but mine didn’t have the high end aggressiveness his had. What WAS EXACTLY the same was the low end response, id say identical. Pretty crazy. What’s even crazier is, you’ll never get the exact same tone twice. It will just never happen. But that is the fun of it. You can’t do that with amps. Sure it might drive you crazy, but it’s part of the fun.

 

[nightlight]

I've got the amps I need - and even though I've had dozens of other heads and combos pass through my zone, the same amps I started with are the same amps I love and use today - so for me, ZERO amp GAS.

But what totally opened the doors for me (cuz, like you, I kinda dig the different colors and flavors that cabs offer any specific amp) was the Captor X unit from Two Notes. Best purchase(s) in recent years - hands down. Since I got my fave amps? Now I've got access to a plethora of absolutely KILLER DynIRs - and DynIRs are, IMHO/YMMV - the best IRs out there. It was and is a game changer for me - ended up with 2 as I run stereo heads....and the virtual cabs?? It's like owning a warehouse of 1x12s/212s/412s/410s/supros/champs/pignose....endless ?

/end love-rant

I've been down the IR rabbit hole as well and I like it. I used to have a Suhr reactive load, but then moved on to a Fryette Power Station 2.

Here's an example on a tone I recorded with an IR.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B_e0xdYnQrr/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Could be better, of course, but that's why I moved on to recording real cabs. I find I get excellent results.

I also find that when I mic up a cab and record, my mixing process is much simpler. It just seems that it is easier to work with the whole analog signal chain than something with a digital element in it.

At least, that has been my experience. I also own a Kemper, and while it has great tones, when I get down to mixing, I always find it much easier to do with a miced up guitar tone.

 

[ClintN667]

Personally, Ive figured out that I only need a few tones. A marshall flavor, a Mark flavor, a 5150 flavor, and something Orange. ( I currently need to fufill that Orange flavor. I also have a KSR Ceres PA50 rig cause I love KSR and its just a cool compact rig. Having used a Kemper and an HX stomp taught me which tones I like and how most amps do sound very similar. Get the Axe III go through it and pick your flavors. Or just stick with the Axe. I highly recommend a creamback 75 cab though.

 

[Ventura]

I've been down the IR rabbit hole as well and I like it. I used to have a Suhr reactive load, but then moved on to a Fryette Power Station 2.

Here's an example on a tone I recorded with an IR.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B_e0xdYnQrr/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Could be better, of course, but that's why I moved on to recording real cabs. I find I get excellent results.

I also find that when I mic up a cab and record, my mixing process is much simpler. It just seems that it is easier to work with the whole analog signal chain than something with a digital element in it.

At least, that has been my experience. I also own a Kemper, and while it has great tones, when I get down to mixing, I always find it much easier to do with a miced up guitar tone.

Much like you - Fryette PowerStation, Suhr, Radial, UA Ox, etc etc etc. I lost hope for an actual "perfect" solution that truly sounded like the real deal, and was a cinch to incorporate into my recording stream. I was all about the mics + cabs. Till I hesitantly tried the CaptorX - I mean, I went into it thinking for sure it was gonna be "maybe okay" at best.

Best purchase I've made in ages. And I still run through my cabs when needed, but man, their (TwoNotes) captures?? Next level.

Keep on rocking Brethren!!

 

[anomaly]

It's more fun to get a new amp but the biggest tonal differences will happen with a different cab. I approve of a recto cab. I've got one and it sounds great with every amp i've played through it.

Whoever said that jcm800's sound bad through V30 cabs is an idiot.

 

[Racerxrated]

Cab... all day... screw amps... if you have 5 or 6 killer amps like you do, cabs are the a better investment. I have 7-8 heads, and now 5 4x12s. I’ve never been as happy as I am with finding tones than with a different cab and paying close attention to detail with micing my different cabs with a single 57. Nothing comes close to this to me. Guitar players as a whole need to be more versed in critical listening, the attention to detail and minuscule movements of a mic on a cab are where the differences in tone lies in my opinion.

getting great tones At the source, without eq etc, is the foundation of great recorded tones. And if you already have the amps, it would behoove you to get a few great cabs and see the differences they make, because it can often be drastic.

for instance: I just spent a weekend with a well known producer of modern metal records. I bought an engl 4x12 off of him, because I absolutely love the tones he got with his. Loaded with 65 watt creambacks and vintage 30s. I bought an identical engl 4x-12 off of him, and had the exact same speakers put in it. Same placement etc. we spent all day micing it up. Mind you, again, a complete pro at the top of his game. Same mic positions etc, incredible Attention to detail. The results? The cabs still sounded pretty different. His had more high end attack and grind than mine, even with the same mic, Same speaker, same position, Same signal path. Was it worlds different? No, but it was incredibly obvious. Was one better or worse? Nope, just... different. The core tone was the same, but mine didn’t have the high end aggressiveness his had. What WAS EXACTLY the same was the low end response, id say identical. Pretty crazy. What’s even crazier is, you’ll never get the exact same tone twice. It will just never happen. But that is the fun of it. You can’t do that with amps. Sure it might drive you crazy, but it’s part of the fun.

And there is another un talked about caveat; the fact that no 2 cabs sound identical. Same brand, model, speakers yet they still sound different.