Another rig advice topic...help me rig masters!

[glassjaw7]

Hunter's switcher setup got me thinking about my gear...I've been trying to decide on how to build up a effects/switcher rig for over three years! I have two totally different rigs going because every time I buy a new piece of gear it seems like I'm not getting anywhere, so I change my mind on what direction I'm taking this.

I have a custom roadcase for my modded recto with 4 rack spaces available, so I've thought about throwing another head on top of the case, racking my pedals and getting an RJM switcher and running my dry sound to my recto 212 and a stereo wet sound to my 412.

But then I think "is this really practical?" I mean, I wouldn't be able to load the damn thing up and transport it for gigs!
So then I think about building a little grab and go rack rig, but by the time I get the gear I want, that's like the price of a second head and finishing my pedalboard! I don't know what to do! I wish I could build a second mini-rig that would integrate into the big bedroom rig, but also be able to be taken out of the big picture and used on it's own for gigs and jams. Give me some ideas!

 

[axemeaquestion]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

 

[glpg80]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

so in what world do you live in that everyone shits $100 bills?

Jordan.

sell the 4 space rack + amp holder. break the rack into 8 space chunks so that its mobile - use multiple 8x racks - as many as you need. leave a rack space in each rack for a bar with labeled connectors that are easy to see and easy to understand so teardown and buildup is easy and painless.

get a flight case for the mesa - and casters for the cabinets that are quick-removable if you dont have any.

as for the cabinet being stereo - the point of stereo effects is to get the stereo feeling left and right seperately with space between them. for this, i would get either 1x12's for the wet left/right or 2x12's for wet left/right and use the 4x12 always dry.

problem solved

 

[axemeaquestion]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

so in what world do you live in that everyone shits $100 bills?



problem solved

You have provided him with a list of tasks that involves buying and selling equipment, and fabricating interconnected systems. And there is cost involved.

He has already admitted he has had problems following thru on this series of tasks.

My solution frees him up from these mundane activities and allows him to put his time into his playing, where he has no problem focussing.

 

[glpg80]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

so in what world do you live in that everyone shits $100 bills?

Jordan.

sell the 4 space rack + amp holder. break the rack into 8 space chunks so that its mobile - use multiple 8x racks - as many as you need. leave a rack space in each rack for a bar with labeled connectors that are easy to see and easy to understand so teardown and buildup is easy and painless.

get a flight case for the mesa - and casters for the cabinets that are quick-removable if you dont have any.

as for the cabinet being stereo - the point of stereo effects is to get the stereo feeling left and right seperately with space between them. for this, i would get either 1x12's for the wet left/right or 2x12's for wet left/right and use the 4x12 always dry.

problem solved

another option you could do is run two stereo 4x12's. run the outside speakers wet and run the inside pair dry. im doing something simillar to this myself with stereo wet/dry using mono cabinets.

 

[Zachman]

Hunter's switcher setup got me thinking about my gear...I've been trying to decide on how to build up a effects/switcher rig for over three years! I have two totally different rigs going because every time I buy a new piece of gear it seems like I'm not getting anywhere, so I change my mind on what direction I'm taking this.

I have a custom roadcase for my modded recto with 4 rack spaces available, so I've thought about throwing another head on top of the case, racking my pedals and getting an RJM switcher and running my dry sound to my recto 212 and a stereo wet sound to my 412.

But then I think "is this really practical?" I mean, I wouldn't be able to load the damn thing up and transport it for gigs!
So then I think about building a little grab and go rack rig, but by the time I get the gear I want, that's like the price of a second head and finishing my pedalboard! I don't know what to do! I wish I could build a second mini-rig that would integrate into the big bedroom rig, but also be able to be taken out of the big picture and used on it's own for gigs and jams. Give me some ideas!

Well... 6 spaces for: rack unit + switching system + 2 spaces for a pedal tray + say 2 spaces for a power amp isn't really that impractical. That + your head and cabs + floor controller is WAY less than a drummer would have to lug around.

For me, I look at the rigs by compartment. In other words... Pedals, Rack stuff, Switching System, Amps, Cabs, Floor control.

My little grab and go rig, is a soft 2 space rack with a BF Intellifex. In the back of the rack I throw whatever pedals I will use for the given gig (Usually a tuner, Dyna Comp, channel switching pedal for my amp channels, and maybe an OD or distortion pedal, depending on what amp I am using).

In the old days I used a stereo Boogie rig w/ a TC 2290 delay and it acted as the controller (Controlled amp channel changes, MIDI switching a Yamaha SPX90II, and a DBX 160A Compressor, and a Rane SM26 splitter mixer, and I used the TC 0144 floor controller. If I was doing a bigger show-- I'd use 2 4x12 cabs-- If it was a smaller show, I'd use a couple of 1x12 cabs or 2 combos.

I understand the frustration... My solution was rather simple but ironically admittedly extreme. I designed and built my ULTIMATE rig (for me). By contrast, everything else was a major compromise-- but that's okay because not every scenario required all of the bells and whistles. It helps to KNOW what you NEED and what you MAY need, and why.

You HAVE TO, determine what you NEED vs what you'd like. THAT is quite a task, when you're brutally honest about it.

If the rig is for LIVE gigging, vs studio stuff vs strictly home use, or for fun w/ the guys every now and again...

There are 3 CONS to my Huge rig (as I see it). It's big, heavy and rather expensive. For me-- the cons are FAR outweighed by the PROS.

What I would suggest is that you go here, http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/faq and read EVERYTHING a few times. Not suggesting you have to spend a small fortune on gear or anything like that, just that you may gain some insight as to points of consideration when designing your rigs.

Best of luck with it all.

 

[glpg80]

You have provided him with a list of tasks that involves buying and selling equipment, and fabricating interconnected systems. And there is cost involved.

He has already admitted he has had problems following thru on this series of tasks.

My solution frees him up from these mundane activities and allows him to put his time into his playing, where he has no problem focussing.

so now you're a certified psychiatrist? and your opinion to tell someone not to even bother messing with their own rig because they supposedly have problems following through on tasks is to be considered a solution?

go fuck yourself

solving the problem by outsourcing adds costly man hours, added shipping costs, and the added cost to the gear itself which he would have to front anyway to send to X person to build X rig - increasing shipping costs even more.

clearly that is not the cheapest and easiest method and unless you are building a rig like Zach's its overkill.

clearly when someone asks for help on a forum you answer in reply with a reason that benefits the forum as a whole and also benefits other musicians who read the topic - who might also relate and want a logical answer.

 

[glassjaw7]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

That is a good idea, but I am able to design my rig, it's just that my budget isn't able to get there so I'm asking for suggestions from you guys to see if something sounds like it'll work and be somewhat cost effective. I'd love to have Dave Friedman design a pedalboard/switcher and two head W/D/W setup with integrated rack pieces but it's just not possible or practical for me at the moment.

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

so in what world do you live in that everyone shits $100 bills?

Jordan.

sell the 4 space rack + amp holder. break the rack into 8 space chunks so that its mobile - use multiple 8x racks - as many as you need. leave a rack space in each rack for a bar with labeled connectors that are easy to see and easy to understand so teardown and buildup is easy and painless.

get a flight case for the mesa - and casters for the cabinets that are quick-removable if you dont have any.

as for the cabinet being stereo - the point of stereo effects is to get the stereo feeling left and right seperately with space between them. for this, i would get either 1x12's for the wet left/right or 2x12's for wet left/right and use the 4x12 always dry.

problem solved

Sometimes I'm in a David Gilmour frame of mind, and I want the old-school huge pedalboard into a couple amps run in stereo. But part of me wants to use that big road case and control it all via a Ground Control Pro. It's not something I need, but I've wanted to have a setup like that for so long that it's for my ego more than anything else! Or maybe just to get my rocks off on the look of a big stage rig in my bedroom!

I do like your idea of breaking it up into 8-space racks and smaller cabs for the wet signal. Definitely something I'll consider. the real question I have to face is whether or not I can sell my stuff. I have a problem with getting rid of gear.

Here's what I own that I probably don't need.
-new SKB 3-space rack I just took in a trade
-mint Grundorf 4-space rack. I guess I could keep it for my recording interface
-custom roadcase made by Rock Solid Cases. Great quality, but a little worn.

What do you guys think I could realistically get for those? I don't want to get rid of the road case and then regret it later.

 

[Zachman]

You have provided him with a list of tasks that involves buying and selling equipment, and fabricating interconnected systems. And there is cost involved.

He has already admitted he has had problems following thru on this series of tasks.

My solution frees him up from these mundane activities and allows him to put his time into his playing, where he has no problem focussing.

so now you're a certified psychiatrist? and your opinion to tell someone not to even bother messing with their own rig because they supposedly have problems following through on tasks is to be considered a solution?

go fuck yourself

solving the problem by outsourcing adds costly man hours, added shipping costs, and the added cost to the gear itself which he would have to front anyway to send to X person to build X rig - increasing shipping costs even more.

clearly that is not the cheapest and easiest method and unless you are building a rig like Zach's its overkill.

clearly when someone asks for help on a forum you answer in reply with a reason that benefits the forum as a whole and also benefits other musicians who read the topic - who might also relate and want a logical answer.

I wouldn't bother arguing with that guy. He appears to get off on stirring things up, and hasn't established any credible clout as to why anyone ought to pay any attention to him at all-- that I've seen or heard.

 

[axemeaquestion]

You have provided him with a list of tasks that involves buying and selling equipment, and fabricating interconnected systems. And there is cost involved.

He has already admitted he has had problems following thru on this series of tasks.

My solution frees him up from these mundane activities and allows him to put his time into his playing, where he has no problem focussing.

so now you're a certified psychiatrist? and your opinion to tell someone not to even bother messing with their own rig because they supposedly have problems following through on tasks is to be considered a solution?

go fuck yourself

solving the problem by outsourcing adds costly man hours, added shipping costs, and the added cost to the gear itself which he would have to front anyway to send to X person to build X rig - increasing shipping costs even more.

clearly that is not the cheapest and easiest method and unless you are building a rig like Zach's its overkill.

clearly when someone asks for help on a forum you answer in reply with a reason that benefits the forum as a whole and also benefits other musicians who read the topic - who might also relate and want a logical answer.

Brother glippy-glop, my solution was as valid as yours. The creator of the thread will deem which solution he feels is most viable for him, I merely presented him with an option.

In what way does your invective utilizing the F word benefit the forum, friend?

 

[some dude]

I have a custom roadcase for my modded recto with 4 rack spaces available, so I've thought about throwing another head on top of the case, racking my pedals and getting an RJM switcher and running my dry sound to my recto 212 and a stereo wet sound to my 412.

1) What's in the other rack spaces?

2) Why do you want a wet/dry rig?

For 2, I mean is this a big deal, make or break your gig type of affair? Or is it more of a nice to have? Do you honestly think you'll use this setup? Or if you're honest with yourself is it one of those things that will probably never see a live venue?

I've had some pretty big dreams over the years... it's why I have an Orange fullstack sitting in the corner of my room.... yet right beside it is my #1 head on a 2x12 that sees 90% of the action.

 

[Zachman]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

That is a good idea, but I am able to design my rig, it's just that my budget isn't able to get there so I'm asking for suggestions from you guys to see if something sounds like it'll work and be somewhat cost effective. I'd love to have Dave Friedman design a pedalboard/switcher and two head W/D/W setup with integrated rack pieces but it's just not possible or practical for me at the moment.

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

so in what world do you live in that everyone shits $100 bills?

Jordan.

sell the 4 space rack + amp holder. break the rack into 8 space chunks so that its mobile - use multiple 8x racks - as many as you need. leave a rack space in each rack for a bar with labeled connectors that are easy to see and easy to understand so teardown and buildup is easy and painless.

get a flight case for the mesa - and casters for the cabinets that are quick-removable if you dont have any.

as for the cabinet being stereo - the point of stereo effects is to get the stereo feeling left and right seperately with space between them. for this, i would get either 1x12's for the wet left/right or 2x12's for wet left/right and use the 4x12 always dry.

problem solved

Sometimes I'm in a David Gilmour frame of mind, and I want the old-school huge pedalboard into a couple amps run in stereo. But part of me wants to use that big road case and control it all via a Ground Control Pro. It's not something I need, but I've wanted to have a setup like that for so long that it's for my ego more than anything else! Or maybe just to get my rocks off on the look of a big stage rig in my bedroom!

I do like your idea of breaking it up into 8-space racks and smaller cabs for the wet signal. Definitely something I'll consider. the real question I have to face is whether or not I can sell my stuff. I have a problem with getting rid of gear.

Here's what I own that I probably don't need.
-new SKB 3-space rack I just took in a trade
-mint Grundorf 4-space rack. I guess I could keep it for my recording interface
-custom roadcase made by Rock Solid Cases. Great quality, but a little worn.

What do you guys think I could realistically get for those? I don't want to get rid of the road case and then regret it later.

I admit-- having the heads in one rack along with all of the outboard fx and switching gear has it's appeal-- BUT unless you're playing larger stages and/or have a moving truck w/ a hydraulic lift gate and friends/roadies to help move it around, they can be overkill. I don't mind overkill, but that's me.

How many pedals? How many control functions? How many rack pieces? How many spaces will all of it take up?

Seems to me your biggest obstacle is coming to terms with having put the cart before the horse regarding the HUGE case.

Gear serve as a mere utility which serve a purpose, beyond appearance.

 

[glpg80]

road cases? i would do an ebay search of simillar gear and see what the fetching rate is - craigslist and google are your friends too.

and really whatever someone is willing to pay for it is where the price should be. nothing lowball but nothing too high that would be close to buying something simillar new.

 

[glassjaw7]

I have a custom roadcase for my modded recto with 4 rack spaces available, so I've thought about throwing another head on top of the case, racking my pedals and getting an RJM switcher and running my dry sound to my recto 212 and a stereo wet sound to my 412.

1) What's in the other rack spaces?

2) Why do you want a wet/dry rig?

For 2, I mean is this a big deal, make or break your gig type of affair? Or is it more of a nice to have? Do you honestly think you'll use this setup? Or if you're honest with yourself is it one of those things that will probably never see a live venue?

I've had some pretty big dreams over the years... it's why I have an Orange fullstack sitting in the corner of my room.... yet right beside it is my #1 head on a 2x12 that sees 90% of the action.

My rack gear at the moment is just a Power Conditioner and a POD PRO preamp that I use for some extra lead sounds. I'd like to get some other rack gear, (Triaxis, JMP1, AxeFx, or wait for POD HD rackmount) but that's another story all together! I'm thinking like Matt said, I'll add rack gear in increments in the future.

-One thing I need NOW is a power amp! I love my Friedman recto tone, but the parallel loop is completely unusable for me. It just slaughters the tone when I put a delay in the loop no matter how I have it set. I might try a delay unit with a "killdry" function but I'd rather get a decent tube power amp and use the recto's 'slave out' jack and then hit my effects. I need a better rack effects unit as well, as lately I've been putting all my money into pedals.

-I don't necessarily NEED a W/D/W setup, but I'd like to at least have a stereo rig. Stereo is more than enough for me.

 

[Zachman]

road cases? i would do an ebay search of simillar gear and see what the fetching rate is - craigslist and google are your friends too.

and really whatever someone is willing to pay for it is where the price should be. nothing lowball but nothing too high that would be close to buying something simillar new.

His main obstacle re: liquidating the case, as I see it-- in this economy-- is finding a specialized buyer for that type of case. Then again-- he is a forum member and could take advantage of putting it in the gear classifieds right here.

 

[glpg80]

Jordan did you see my comment about using two stereo 4x12's? that might be an option for you over the 1x12's for wet.

for power amps you need to decide whether you want clean headroom or something that will colour your tone further before being sent to the wet speakers.

IMHO i prefer solid state, since the original amp tone is analog and is enough colouration for me, but there are others that prefer tube power amps for their speakers running wet or a mix of dry.

no one needs a W/D/W rig or a stereo rig, but once you experience it there is no turning back. one of those see it to believe it ordeals

 

[Zachman]

I have a custom roadcase for my modded recto with 4 rack spaces available, so I've thought about throwing another head on top of the case, racking my pedals and getting an RJM switcher and running my dry sound to my recto 212 and a stereo wet sound to my 412.

1) What's in the other rack spaces?

2) Why do you want a wet/dry rig?

For 2, I mean is this a big deal, make or break your gig type of affair? Or is it more of a nice to have? Do you honestly think you'll use this setup? Or if you're honest with yourself is it one of those things that will probably never see a live venue?

I've had some pretty big dreams over the years... it's why I have an Orange fullstack sitting in the corner of my room.... yet right beside it is my #1 head on a 2x12 that sees 90% of the action.

My rack gear at the moment is just a Power Conditioner and a POD PRO preamp that I use for some extra lead sounds. I'd like to get some other rack gear, (Triaxis, JMP1, AxeFx, or wait for POD HD rackmount) but that's another story all together! I'm thinking like Matt said, I'll add rack gear in increments in the future.

-One thing I need NOW is a power amp! I love my Friedman recto tone, but the parallel loop is completely unusable for me. It just slaughters the tone when I put a delay in the loop no matter how I have it set. I might try a delay unit with a "killdry" function but I'd rather get a decent tube power amp and use the recto's 'slave out' jack and then hit my effects. I need a better rack effects unit as well, as lately I've been putting all my money into pedals.

-I don't necessarily NEED a W/D/W setup, but I'd like to at least have a stereo rig. Stereo is more than enough for me.

I agree... I HATE parallel loops especially in the rectifiers.

Recto, use a load device (THD Hotplate, Palmer, etc... ) send line signal to Axe, Axe outs to power amp inputs to speakers and tada stereo rig. That would be a totally self contained 8 space rack.

Furman
Palmer
Axe
Pedal Tray
GCX, or ?
Power amp

 

[glpg80]

road cases? i would do an ebay search of simillar gear and see what the fetching rate is - craigslist and google are your friends too.

and really whatever someone is willing to pay for it is where the price should be. nothing lowball but nothing too high that would be close to buying something simillar new.

His main obstacle re: liquidating the case, as I see it-- in this economy-- is finding a specialized buyer for that type of case. Then again-- he is a forum member and could take advantage of putting it in the gear classifieds right here.

its after christmas - im sure there is someone looking for an amp + rack roadcase - i thought Brad would never have sold his 4x head roadcase but he did

if Jordan stays patient i dont think he'll have a problem unloading it. im sure it wont go as quick as something else, but it will still go.

 

[Zachman]

road cases? i would do an ebay search of simillar gear and see what the fetching rate is - craigslist and google are your friends too.

and really whatever someone is willing to pay for it is where the price should be. nothing lowball but nothing too high that would be close to buying something simillar new.

His main obstacle re: liquidating the case, as I see it-- in this economy-- is finding a specialized buyer for that type of case. Then again-- he is a forum member and could take advantage of putting it in the gear classifieds right here.

its after christmas - im sure there is someone looking for an amp + rack roadcase - i thought Brad would never have sold his 4x head roadcase but he did

if Jordan stays patient i dont think he'll have a problem unloading it. im sure it wont go as quick as something else, but it will still go.

Agreed

 

[glassjaw7]

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

That is a good idea, but I am able to design my rig, it's just that my budget isn't able to get there so I'm asking for suggestions from you guys to see if something sounds like it'll work and be somewhat cost effective. I'd love to have Dave Friedman design a pedalboard/switcher and two head W/D/W setup with integrated rack pieces but it's just not possible or practical for me at the moment.

Hire someone to do it for you. Why stress yourself out trying to design a system when there are professionals who can help you get it done right?

You have admitted that you have not been able to complete the job. That professional will get it done for you.

so in what world do you live in that everyone shits $100 bills?

Jordan.

sell the 4 space rack + amp holder. break the rack into 8 space chunks so that its mobile - use multiple 8x racks - as many as you need. leave a rack space in each rack for a bar with labeled connectors that are easy to see and easy to understand so teardown and buildup is easy and painless.

get a flight case for the mesa - and casters for the cabinets that are quick-removable if you dont have any.

as for the cabinet being stereo - the point of stereo effects is to get the stereo feeling left and right seperately with space between them. for this, i would get either 1x12's for the wet left/right or 2x12's for wet left/right and use the 4x12 always dry.

problem solved

Sometimes I'm in a David Gilmour frame of mind, and I want the old-school huge pedalboard into a couple amps run in stereo. But part of me wants to use that big road case and control it all via a Ground Control Pro. It's not something I need, but I've wanted to have a setup like that for so long that it's for my ego more than anything else! Or maybe just to get my rocks off on the look of a big stage rig in my bedroom!

I do like your idea of breaking it up into 8-space racks and smaller cabs for the wet signal. Definitely something I'll consider. the real question I have to face is whether or not I can sell my stuff. I have a problem with getting rid of gear.

Here's what I own that I probably don't need.
-new SKB 3-space rack I just took in a trade
-mint Grundorf 4-space rack. I guess I could keep it for my recording interface
-custom roadcase made by Rock Solid Cases. Great quality, but a little worn.

What do you guys think I could realistically get for those? I don't want to get rid of the road case and then regret it later.

I admit-- having the heads in one rack along with all of the outboard fx and switching gear has it's appeal-- BUT unless you're playing larger stages and/or have a moving truck w/ a hydraulic lift gate and friends/roadies to help move it around, they can be overkill. I don't mind overkill, but that's me.

How many pedals? How many control functions? How many rack pieces? How many spaces will all of it take up?

Seems to me your biggest obstacle is coming to terms with having put the cart before the horse regarding the HUGE case.

Gear serve as a mere utility which serve a purpose, beyond appearance.

Yeah, the huge case was actually bought second-hand. I couldn't pass it up because my head fit perfectly in it, and the price was KILLER! So I yes, I bought the case thinking I would build up a rig using that as my template, rather than planning out what I need and moving on from there. I did it ass backwards but now that I have that case, I want so badly to use it!

As far as pedals go, I'm a junkie! I sold a couple that I really don't need, but I'm at around 10 or so that I absolutely must have in my rig and there're a few to go still.
For this reason, I think a board such as a PT-PRO with a small looper/switcher that'll switch my pedals AND amp channels/rack gear is the best route. As badly as I want to rack my pedals, I think I'd need two shelves to fit them all.

I was thinking of grabbing the big Pedaltrain board and one of these http://www.rockbox.com/efxmkii.htm or the new Rocktron floormate switcher.

I've also considered getting a POD HD 500 along with a rack switcher and using it control everything, but then what do I do with all the pedals? Have a big pedalboard in addition to that? See where my problem is?

I might wait for a cheaper Fractal/Axe solution or a rackmount PODHD because either way I'd like to own one for recording purposes. Then I'll try to integrate it into my live rig.