Any Suggestions for my Rig Set Up?

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matttornado

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I have a Marshall Superlead that I'm tapping a line out from into some pedals and then into the FX return on my DSL40CR. It;s a wet /dry rig but the "wet" side isn't 100% wet, its got a good mix of the dry sound too.

Please look at my diagram. Do I need to use certain types (brands) of effects to get a good delay and reverb sound? I have a Behringer reverb pedal and it works great but when I turn the pedal on, the overall tone changes for the bad. The reverb itself sounds great though. Delays are a real challange. It seems that the repeats are very distant and not up front. I tried tow so far, a Joyo D-Seed and an old Ibanez digital delay.

Any help or suggestions to make this set up better would be greatly appreciated.
rig diagram.png
 
Do you want the preamp tone from the Superlead going into the DSL? As it stands, you are running thru the pre and power sections of the super, into effects (at line level) and a cab, then back into a power section on the DSL. This would be like running an axe fx with power amp modeling on, into another power amp. Which is not recommended and I believe creates a "darker" tone...

If you want the superlead to feed into the DSL, I would think youd be better off having a loop installed in the Super and feeding from the send jack.

I might have run an aby split in front of the superlead and dsl, then straight into the front of both the superlead and DSL, then put time effects in the loop of the DSL.
 
I'm assuming by line out you are referring to a load box. If so, it appears that you are sending a signal which has already gone through a colored power amp into another colored power amp. I would not expect this to sound good. If you are going to run two amps, might as well get a splitter and run the Superlead with no fx and the DSL with fx. Then you can mix them, run stereo, or whatever you want. I don't see why you want to run the Superlead into the return of the DSL for this. If you are using the DSL for fx, then just use it for fx.
 
Thanks for replies! My set up actually sounds awesome with the line level (David Bray Line Out Box) from the superlead into the DSL's FX return. The Superlead's tone is not colored or affected in any way going into the DSL's FX return. Just certain effects don't want to work with a line level I think.

I'm basically slaving the superlead into the DSL.

I tried splitting the signal out front, one going into the superlead & the other into the DSL but I didn't like the sound of the two different amps mixed so that's why I'm using the DSL as slave amp so to speak. I may try that again and see what happens.
 
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matttornado said:
Thanks for replies! My set up actually sounds awesome with the line level (David Bray Line Out Box) from the superlead into the DSL. It's the same set up as slaving like EVH did in the early days. The Superlead's tone is not colored or affected in any way going into the DSL's FX return. Just certain effects don't want to work with a line level I think.

I tried splitting the signal out front, one going into the superlead & the other into the DSL but I didn't like the sound of the two different amps mixed so that's why I'm using the DSL as slave amp so to speak. I may try that again and see what happens.
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If the effects are pedals the effects input probably needs effect level, not line level input. Splitting in front of amps or from the send jack of a loop would likely work better with pedals.
 
From what you say, it sounds like an impedance mismatch from the DI of the Superlead into the pedals. If so, you might try a line-level device for effects (rack?) or try a buffer between the DI and pedal that allows setting level.
 
Oh I forgot to mention I tried an old ART reverb unit that has options for instrument and line level input & outputs. when I selected instrument level out into my pedals, they sounded great but the volume loss was terrible with an instruemnt level going into the DSL's FX return. The DSL's FX Return wants to see a line level as the send from it's preamp is?
 
I too would get an ABY box and then maybe a quality digital delay.

I personally have a MXR ABY and a MXR Carbon Copy delay (but sounds like you would prefer a digital delay.
 
311splawndude said:
I too would get an ABY box and then maybe a quality digital delay.

I personally have a MXR ABY and a MXR Carbon Copy delay (but sounds like you would prefer a digital delay.
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I have two digital delays now but I miss my carbon copy and Ibanez AD9.
 
HarryCooter said:
I'm assuming by line out you are referring to a load box. If so, it appears that you are sending a signal which has already gone through a colored power amp into another colored power amp. I would not expect this to sound good. If you are going to run two amps, might as well get a splitter and run the Superlead with no fx and the DSL with fx. Then you can mix them, run stereo, or whatever you want. I don't see why you want to run the Superlead into the return of the DSL for this. If you are using the DSL for fx, then just use it for fx.
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You want the signal to come out of the power amp, add effects and reamp with a neutral power amp or something you know will color it to your liking. The whole point of using a wet dry wet rig is to use your main amps entire signal... not just the preamp signal.

I run the signal from my amp (after power amp) into either an HH V800 or Mesa Boogie Strategy 400 power amp. The HH is pretty neutral, the Boogie is close to neutral, but I have added depth circuits to add in massive bottom end and frequency to fill out the sound spectrum. Note that I use both wet and dry in my "wet" cabinets.
 
matttornado said:
Oh I forgot to mention I tried an old ART reverb unit that has options for instrument and line level input & outputs. when I selected instrument level out into my pedals, they sounded great but the volume loss was terrible with an instruemnt level going into the DSL's FX return. The DSL's FX Return wants to see a line level as the send from it's preamp is?
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I think most amp loops are looking for effects level as it is intended to "send" to effects units, then return to the power amp. Im sure there are some amps with loops designed or allowing for line level but I don't know which or how to tell the difference if its not printed on the chassis or manual. Line level is like 20db high than instrument level. My guess is the line level is overloading your effects pedals and or the loop itself which is why you don't get a great tone running that way.

My experience using loops is by no means tremendous, but I have experienced some weird volume stuff when using loops. My struggles centered on whether the amps had a global master volume or return level vs. amps that did not and sharing effects between them. Do you know if the Master Volume on the DSL is pre or post loop? If it is pre loop, I think you'd have to rely on the source being fed into the return to control the level and therefore volume from the amp. If it is post loop you should be setting the DSL output level on the amp itself.
 
GOHOINC said:
Do you know if the Master Volume on the DSL is pre or post loop?
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It is post loop.
GOHOINC said:
If it is post loop you should be setting the DSL output level on the amp itself.
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yes that's what I do. everything sounds incredible except for when I try my two delays. I read that TC Electronic tone print series pedals are designed to except line level or instrument level so maybe I'll give those a try.
 
When you say the delay repeats are distant and not up front that seems like the signal to the delay could be low. And the fact that you are able to get decent volume from the wet DSL amp seems to indicate that the Return is getting enough signal. Does that sound right?

Is there any way to run the DSL wet only, just as a test?
 
Looking at the david bray website. I am assuming you are using the lo-1? If so, the way it reads, you should be sending the line out signal from the bray box to the input of your second amp, not the return. Then use the volume and preamp EQ to get the tone you want from your wet effects. Also appears that any mix controls on your effects should be set all the way wet. This box has a pot to adjust from instrument level to line level. Where are you running the level on the bray box?

Sounds like you want to bypass the preamp of the DSL because you like the tone of the Superlead? My guess is that to run into the return of the DSL from the Lo-1 then you'd need to add a "preamp" pedal of sorts after the effects?.
 
Unfortunately the quality of the FX units matter. If you can swing it grab a used Lexicon MPX1…..they sound killer with a high gain rig, and while not AS great as a PCM they aren’t that far off with a high gain guitar rig. I see them for around 350 or so. I had a PCM 80 at the same time as an MPX1; the PCM was better but not 4x the price better. At least not in a guitar rig. I sold the PCM.
 
SpiderWars said:
When you say the delay repeats are distant and not up front that seems like the signal to the delay could be low. And the fact that you are able to get decent volume from the wet DSL amp seems to indicate that the Return is getting enough signal. Does that sound right?

Is there any way to run the DSL wet only, just as a test?
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yes! I can turn the delay level all the way up. Is that what you mean?
 
GOHOINC said:
Looking at the david bray website. I am assuming you are using the lo-1? If so, the way it reads, you should be sending the line out signal from the bray box to the input of your second amp, not the return.
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I tried that but it aounds 100% better with the superlead's sound bypassing the amp's preamp section.
GOHOINC said:
This box has a pot to adjust from instrument level to line level. Where are you running the level on the bray box?
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right now at noon but got similar results at about 9 o'clock.
GOHOINC said:
Sounds like you want to bypass the preamp of the DSL because you like the tone of the Superlead?
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yes sounds amazing! volume level is good too.

GOHOINC said:
My guess is that to run into the return of the DSL from the Lo-1 then you'd need to add a "preamp" pedal of sorts after the effects?.
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Not sure because all volume levels are fine, it just seems like the delay repeats gets choked up or overloaded when I turn it on. I'm just wondering if the old Ibanez digital delay I'm using (from the 80s) just cant hande a line level?

maybe the secret is turning the line out box level down evel lower than 9 0'clock to see if the repeats come back to life? if so then I can just turn the dsl's master back up to compensate for the drop of volume with the lower line out level.

Also, I want the DSL to not just be a wet sound but a mix of dry as well because I use an MXR mini boost also for a solo boost, that works fine by the way.

Maybe I just need to turn the delay's level up more since it has a dry signal mixed in AND it's competing against my 4x12?
 
Racerxrated said:
Unfortunately the quality of the FX units matter. If you can swing it grab a used Lexicon MPX1…..they sound killer with a high gain rig, and while not AS great as a PCM they aren’t that far off with a high gain guitar rig. I see them for around 350 or so. I had a PCM 80 at the same time as an MPX1; the PCM was better but not 4x the price better. At least not in a guitar rig. I sold the PCM.
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thanks for suggestion but I'm not into rack units, just a few pedals.
 
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