Anybody else move more towards vintage output pickups?

[danhops]

Feel like I have come to find vintage output is where my head is at these days. Feel I get more of the guitars acoustic attributes this way, but maybe I'm just crazy and tring to convince myself. Just seems the guitar tone has more punchy and dimension to it. Again, maybe it's a mental thing, and it surely isn't making things easier when trying to not sound like a total hack.

 

[Bob Savage]

Not sure about output but I'm loving the more vintage guitars I've been playing lately (LP and Tele) although they're hotter than vintage P90's, I absolutely love the Arcane PX-100 which is a hummer sized P90.

 

[Badronald]

I've got guitars with med output pickups as well as high output pickups that I use or different applications.

Some of the new pickups out there are fantastic like the Suhr Aldrich. It's extremely loud and powerful yet VERY clear and articulate.

It seems these days you can have both. Depends on what you're going for.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

Totally depends on your amp and how much preamp gain you are pushing. I love high output ceramics with Plexi type amps. I like vintage hot (9-12k) alnicos with saturated preamps.

 

[Beyond Black]

I've got MCP Afwayu's in two guitars and really dig them. I wanted to try something lower output, so I put a WCR Godwood in my Edwards LP. I absolutely love it. Amazing sounding pup. Very clear, articulate, uncompressed, just very pleasing to the ears. I'm playing through a Fortin Cali modded Marshall so I already have a ton of gain, and like Reza said, the amp doesn't really need a hot signal going into it. I'd like to try a MCP Detroiter next.

 

[steve_k]

I have been exclusively using lower output pickups in everything. I play high gainers and I don't feel the need to send such a hot signal into the preamp section.
I feel the clarity is worth it. I can't stand indistict mushiness. Especially on my 7 strings.
8.5k on my bridge pickup.

Exactly.....

 

[bonedarrell]

In the past year, I pulled out all of high outputs...i.e. Suhr Aldrich, BK Holy Divers and replaced them w/low output Sheptones. Not that the high outputs sounded bad.....the lower outputs just sound more organic to my ears.

 

[stephen sawall]

I have always used low, medium & high output pickups ... I like different ones for different sounds.

 

[BC Audio]

I dig lower output pickups, PAF-ish mostly. High-output pickups have more windings and you loose high frequencies, which might be a good thing for some styles, but not what I play. With pickups, it's definitely a case of "more output does not equal more tone."

 

[50MkII]

I dig lower output pickups, PAF-ish mostly. High-output pickups have more windings and you loose high frequencies, which might be a good thing for some styles, but not what I play. With pickups, it's definitely a case of "more output does not equal more tone."

This. Also, if I remember correctly the WCR Godwood is more in the ballpark of a medium output pup. Suhr Aldrich seems to be glorified here for some reason and I hear people saying it is really not as high an output pup as it seems. At that point, it does not matter how you chalk it up, it is going to be a tone killer IMO. Frequencies, not too much compression (unlike the Aldrich, etc.), expressiveness/picking sensitivity, balance, warmth and clarity all of the properties that a properly designed low output PAF should contain. Hot front-end combined with a hot output pup usually does not result in anything I qualify as good tone- mush, lacking note definition, muddy...

Your head is correctly interpreting what you want.

 

[bubbastain]

I use a low output humbucker(9.2k I think) with a high gain head and lower tunings(Drop C and A#) and really like the combo more than anything else. I have one high output humbucker(17k) that I have in a Drop D tuned guitar and it sounds killer also especially for some high gain thrashy type tones. Works well with an amp with less gain too.

 

[metalmaniac93]

It all depends on what you like and the type of music you play. I prefer medium to high output pickups and the MCPs or BKPs high output pickups never turn to mush while using high gain. I do have one guitar with a Fralin PAF style (A-IVs) in a Heritage 150CM and they sound amazing, but I primarily use this guitar for more rock orientated stuff.

 

[ericsabbath]

my main guitar ('73 custom in the avatar) had nailbombs, afwayu/2nd degre BB's, cold sweats, aftermath, holy diver, black dog and ended up with a riff raff/mule set
been using this set for a couple years and never been so certain that I will never change pickups in this one again

all the other sets sounded pretty good, anyway, but they had specific characters
- nailbomb was really aggressive, and had a strong 90's crossover thing (think helmet or biohazard)
neck pickup was extremely articulate, but too scooped and way too loud

- afwayu was similar to the nailbomb, but much bassier and middier
probably the hottest and punchiest passive alnico pickup I've heard

- 2nd degree BB was flawless in the neck (reminds me of the vhII neck in my other guitar)
best non-bkp humbucker I've tried

- cold sweat is quite focused and articulate and has a quite big and punchy bass, but it's a little midscooped... very panterish in a good way, but not what I wanted anymore (had this for years in one of the other les pauls)... neck pickup used to be my favorite, but I needed something slightly less hot

- aftermath put out even more output than the cold sweat, and a ton more mids, but less bass and highs... what bothered me was the scratchy feel not only on picking, but when moving fingers over the fretboard... I actually ordered this only for the experience

- ordered a mule for the neck, and at first I needed to get used to its lower output than the cold sweat (which is already low), but the extra detail and unbelievable cleaner tones really got me... I've never heard another pickup like this one

- the holy diver was my first bkp in another guitar and always worked really well in every les paul I tried it (it hated the sg)... similar frequency voicing to the aftermath, but very warm and organic and no near as hot... I still felt the mids were getting a little too aggressive when boosting in this particular les paul, then I stepped down to my first lower output bridge pup

- the black dog has a lot in common with the holy diver as well, but in a low output form, so it's a little more articulate, uncompressed, with lots of pushed mids, but with better dynamics

- I had a riff raff that sounded absolutely flawless in a prs mccarty, but I had to sell the guitar, so decided to try it in the custom
compared to the dog, it made things even clearer, more open, adding lot more detail, like the mule did in the neck, but without the smooth and polite character of the mule, so it retains all the edge and clarity when playing under huge amounts again
combined with the proper pedals, this and the mule are the most versatile and good sounding pickups I ever heard
when I need the aggressive edge, compression and sustain of a higher output pickup, I just add more gain and output in whatever overdrive pedal I have
I feel that the lack of compression from the pickups just keeps its frequency ranges wider

also own 2 les paul copies with black dog and vhII pickups
also had a mule set, but unfortunately had to sell it

 

[Jofipe]

my main guitar ('73 custom in the avatar) had nailbombs, afwayu/2nd degre BB's, cold sweats, aftermath, holy diver, black dog and ended up with a riff raff/mule set
been using this set for a couple years and never been so certain that I will never change pickups in this one again

all the other sets sounded pretty good, anyway, but they had specific characters
- nailbomb was really aggressive, and had a strong 90's crossover thing (think helmet or biohazard)
neck pickup was extremely articulate, but too scooped and way too loud

- afwayu was similar to the nailbomb, but much bassier and middier
probably the hottest and punchiest passive alnico pickup I've heard

- 2nd degree BB was flawless in the neck (reminds me of the vhII neck in my other guitar)
best non-bkp humbucker I've tried

- cold sweat is quite focused and articulate and has a quite big and punchy bass, but it's a little midscooped... very panterish in a good way, but not what I wanted anymore (had this for years in one of the other les pauls)... neck pickup used to be my favorite, but I needed something slightly less hot

- aftermath put out even more output than the cold sweat, and a ton more mids, but less bass and highs... what bothered me was the scratchy feel not only on picking, but when moving fingers over the fretboard... I actually ordered this only for the experience

- ordered a mule for the neck, and at first I needed to get used to its lower output than the cold sweat (which is already low), but the extra detail and unbelievable cleaner tones really got me... I've never heard another pickup like this one

- the holy diver was my first bkp in another guitar and always worked really well in every les paul I tried it (it hated the sg)... similar frequency voicing to the aftermath, but very warm and organic and no near as hot... I still felt the mids were getting a little too aggressive when boosting in this particular les paul, then I stepped down to my first lower output bridge pup

- the black dog has a lot in common with the holy diver as well, but in a low output form, so it's a little more articulate, uncompressed, with lots of pushed mids, but with better dynamics

- I had a riff raff that sounded absolutely flawless in a prs mccarty, but I had to sell the guitar, so decided to try it in the custom
compared to the dog, it made things even clearer, more open, adding lot more detail, like the mule did in the neck, but without the smooth and polite character of the mule, so it retains all the edge and clarity when playing under huge amounts again
combined with the proper pedals, this and the mule are the most versatile and good sounding pickups I ever heard
when I need the aggressive edge, compression and sustain of a higher output pickup, I just add more gain and output in whatever overdrive pedal I have
I feel that the lack of compression from the pickups just keeps its frequency ranges wider

also own 2 les paul copies with black dog and vhII pickups
also had a mule set, but unfortunately had to sell it

This is an awesome writeup! Thanks.

 

[Shawn Lutz]

I have always been a fan of low to mid output level pickups. I found, to my ears anyway, that too hot of pickups screw with the integrity of the gain structure a bit too much.

 

[MichaelG]

Definitely agree.... lower output pickups preserver the gain structure better, with better dynamics and harmonics. I've done a bunch of pickup swapping, mostly with MCP and BKP and I have ended up with lower output choices in most guitars. However.... as a guy above said, this depends a lot on your amp and what you are trying to achieve. I love a ton of gain and so an OD pedal is pretty much mandatory for me. The only amp I've ever been able to plug straight into with a lower output PU and get the bottom-end response that I want is the Atomica. Very few amps indeed can do that for me...

 

[spirit7]

High output pickups do not per se cause muddiness. Any BKP, for example, will stay completely clear. See, for example, a Ceramic Nailbomb or an Aftermath.

-C

 

[thegame]

High output pickups do not per se cause muddiness. Any BKP, for example, will stay completely clear. See, for example, a Ceramic Nailbomb or an Aftermath.

-C

Yeah, in reference to a BKP Painkiller, I've heard hotter ones and clearer ones, but not hotter and clearer at the same time.

Although I think some people make a mistake by not dialing the gain down when adjusting to a hotter pickup, thereby sometimes leading to some false conclusions that a higher output pickup + high gain is muddy.

Furthermore, when I use EMGs I dial the gain back quite a bit in comparison to using passive equipped guitars, and then, there is a certain type of clarity that only an EMG can provide IMO.

 

[cardinal]

If a guitar's too bright, low output pups may not be a great choice even with a high gain amp IME. Everything just depends on the rig.

 

[ericsabbath]

If a guitar's too bright, low output pups may not be a great choice even with a high gain amp IME. Everything just depends on the rig.

depends on the pickups as well
a dimarzio PAF 36th paf, for example, is a pretty fat sounding pup and not bright like the original 70's dimarzio PAF (which I own a couple and are indeed bright and thin sounding)
the bkp black dog works well in bright guitars, as it's quite mid heavy and has a warm top end